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Battlecruiser_Yavuz

Musashi or Kronstadt...if I had a bad experience with Moskva

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Hello!  This is yet another one of those threads, but with a small twist.

As people know, these two ships are going to disappear in a few months and I personally would like to snag one (don't have enough coal to get both) before they disappear for good.

The Musashi seems to be a popular pick and easier to do well in, but I was looking at the Kronstadt as well since its a bit unique.  I heard the latter is kind of like a Scharnhorst, which is one of my favorite ships in the game.

That being said, I used to play another high-tier Russian cruiser - the Moskva - and I, to be frank, never did well in her.  I found her too big and she ate citadels a lot.

With that in mind, which ship seems to be the better pick before they both get sent to the great container in the sky?

Thanks!

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Moskva and Kronshtadt are nothing alike. Nothing at all other than Nation.

Kronshtadt has similar gun performance as Roma. I see you have Roma. If you like Roma and/or can make it work Kronshtadt might be a good fit for you. Kronshtadt has the same awful (inconsistent) accuracy and shell performance as Roma. Seems to be a big salvo (rare) or whiffs and nothing but overpens (majority/common). I for one like neither ship as they behave so similar. My 1st game in Kronshtadt I said to myself - oh no another Roma. It's HE is complete crap as well.

Musashi is a Yamato lite. Same basic ship with terrible AA and less accurate guns. It is still pretty accurate though and still does Yamato things to ships. You also get to beat up on T7's with it now and then.

Of the 2, IMO, Musashi is heads and shoulders a better pick. Kronshtadt is too frustrating for me to play so it like Roma mainly sits rusting in port. YMMV.

Again though, do not base the decision on your Moskva experience. The 2 ships are just nothing alike. I would take a Moskva over, and into a fight with Kronshtadt, any day.

EDIT - LOL a down vote for an honest opinion answering a direct question. People are just hilarious.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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I have both and I have to tell you, Kronstadt's guns are less than impressive.  Kronk's armor, on the other hand, very tanky.  She bounces AP well when angled.

Musashi, on the gripping hand, she flat out delivers the mail.  My top damage game is in her.  She feels awfully.... ponderous would be a good word here.

I actually went with the rudder shift module and always mount a speed flag.  She feels much better after that.

Choose the Musa.

Best of luck to you.

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30 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Moskva and Kronshtadt are nothing alike. Nothing at all other than Nation.

Kronshtadt has similar gun performance as Roma. I see you have Roma. If you like Roma and/or can make it work Kronshtadt might be a good fit for you. Kronshtadt has the same awful (inconsistent) accuracy and shell performance as Roma. Seems to be a big salvo (rare) or whiffs and nothing but overpens (majority/common). I for one like neither ship as they behave so similar. My 1st game in Kronshtadt I said to myself - oh no another Roma. It's HE is complete crap as well.

Musashi is a Yamato lite. Same basic ship with terrible AA and less accurate guns. It is still pretty accurate though and still does Yamato things to ships. You also get to beat up on T7's with it now and then.

Of the 2, IMO, Musashi is heads and shoulders a better pick. Kronshtadt is too frustrating for me to play so it like Roma mainly sits rusting in port. YMMV.

Again though, do not base the decision on your Moskva experience. The 2 ships are just nothing alike. I would take a Moskva over, and into a fight with Kronshtadt, any day.

EDIT - LOL a down vote for an honest opinion answering a direct question. People are just hilarious.

Interesting.  My main issue with the Roma is the up-tier problem, mainly because she seems outclassed when fighting against Tier IX and X vessels.

That being said, you don't think the faster reload time and the higher tier really help the Kronshtadt that much?  I don't mind being a battleship hunter and the penetration rate could actually be good, especially since the Moskva can only really penetrate if a heavily-armored enemy is broadside.

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1 minute ago, Captain_Slattery said:

I have both and I have to tell you, Kronstadt's guns are less than impressive.  Kronk's armor, on the other hand, very tanky.  She bounces AP well when angled.

Musashi, on the gripping hand, she flat out delivers the mail.  My top damage game is in her.  She feels awfully.... ponderous would be a good word here.

I actually went with the rudder shift module and always mount a speed flag.  She feels much better after that.

Choose the Musa.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for your answer!  It seems that the Musashi is just flat-out easier to use, especially since it has those Yamato-grade F$@% YOU guns :cap_haloween:.

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Musashi. Kron's armor is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Moskva, but with more maneuverability. It's coated in 25mm aside from the main belt. Gets massively farmed by virtually every ship you meet.

Musashi is extremely strong.

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Musashi is my end-of-year premium ship of the year.

Kronshtadt is fun, I don't regret buying her, but she's not even on my list of memorable premium ships of 2018.

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54 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Yavuz said:

Interesting.  My main issue with the Roma is the up-tier problem, mainly because she seems outclassed when fighting against Tier IX and X vessels.

That being said, you don't think the faster reload time and the higher tier really help the Kronshtadt that much?  I don't mind being a battleship hunter and the penetration rate could actually be good, especially since the Moskva can only really penetrate if a heavily-armored enemy is broadside.

Maybe an expert on the Kron will step in. I have found it to be very frustrating. At range, you just spray and pray.. one shot, 2 cits and 20k damage... the next...all miss... the guns hit hard...when they hit. the gun angles are great making the Kron a great kiting ship...but the reload is so bad and accuracy doesn't exist at the ranges you need it to be effective. 

I think you will find equal frustration with the kron compared to the Moskva, just for different reasons.

The Musashi is like that one fat drunk friend who gets hit all the time but throws haymakers in return.

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37 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

These threads make me go back and forth on deciding. 

Guess I have a month or so to pick.

It sounds like the Musashi is the clear pick based on this thread.

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Just now, galspanic said:

It sounds like the Musashi is the clear pick based on this thread.

Yah, then in the other threads everyone is happy with their Kron. Ill just wait till the end, maybe more info on the Alaska will released then. Just gonna be patient. 

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1 hour ago, Battlecruiser_Yavuz said:

Interesting.  My main issue with the Roma is the up-tier problem, mainly because she seems outclassed when fighting against Tier IX and X vessels.

That being said, you don't think the faster reload time and the higher tier really help the Kronshtadt that much?  I don't mind being a battleship hunter and the penetration rate could actually be good, especially since the Moskva can only really penetrate if a heavily-armored enemy is broadside.

Kronshtadt is a horrible Cruiser hunter because all it does is overpen them. If you have a nice juicy broadside Cruiser sitting there you will just overpen it. The citadels come more on BB's or heavily angled Cruisers. 

The reload is nice of course with BB caliber guns but the damage is so inconsistent and the accuracy so bad it doesn't help much really. Not for me anyway.

Moskva has top notch HE for when stuff is angled too heavily for it's AP to perform the best. Kronshtadt's HE is utter garbage. You burn stuff with Moskva until you see the side and then you swap to AP and wreck it. Results will be fairly known. Kronshtadt you shoot and pray to RNGesus that he gives you a break and some actual damage. I truly dislike the ship. As I said earlier though YMMV.

My citadel high in a game with Kronshtadt is 7. I have had almost that in 1 salvo with Moskva (it's high for me is 23 cit's in 1 game).

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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One more for the Moose.

Kronshtadt is fun, not not to the point of making me giggle like a psychotic school girl when landing shots. Which Musashi does.

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11 minutes ago, APA_204 said:

Maybe an expert on the Kron will step in. I have found it to be very frustrating. At range, you just spray and pray.. one shot, 2 cits and 20k damage... the next...all miss... the guns hit hard...when they hit. the gun angles are great making the Kron a great kiting ship...but the reload is so bad and accuracy doesn't exist at the ranges you need it to be effective. 

I think you will find equal frustration with the kron compared to the Moskva, just for different reasons.

The Musashi is like that one fat drunk friend who gets hit all the time but throws haymakers in return.

The highlighted section is Kronshtadt's problem in a nut shell.

For the extreme high velocity AP shells to perform their best and actually pen and citadel stuff you need to be shooting at near it's maximum range. Otherwise, if you are close, you just overpen city. BUT, the accuracy is so horrendously bad at it's max range that hitting anything out there, where the AP actually works, is a gamble. 

It's a ship that needs to be played at range for optimal gun performance but it does not have the accuracy to do so. Close in so you can hit reliably and the AP performance goes down the toilet. It's a no win situation.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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14 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Kronshtadt is a horrible Cruiser hunter because all it does is overpen them. If you have a nice juicy broadside Cruiser sitting there you will just overpen it. The citadels come more on BB's or heavily angled Cruisers. 

The reload is nice of course with BB caliber guns but the damage is so inconsistent and the accuracy so bad it doesn't help much really. Not for me anyway.

Moskva has top notch HE for when stuff is angled too heavily for it's AP to perform the best. Kronshtadt's HE is utter garbage. You burn stuff with Moskva until you see the side and then you swap to AP and wreck it. Results will be fairly known. Kronshtadt you shoot and pray to RNGesus that he gives you a break and some actual damage. I truly dislike the ship. As I said earlier though YMMV.

My citadel high in a game with Kronshtadt is 7. I have had almost that in 1 salvo with Moskva (it's high for me is 23 cit's in 1 game).

Just so you know, the Moskva has arguably the worst performing HE for T10 CA.  The only ship you can argue is worse is the Henri, but that has MBRB and will generally start fires better.  

Moskva has insane AP pen for a cruiser, with HE that is usable, but not good.  The Kron has better AP than Moskva, but worse HE, much like the Stalingrad.  

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17 minutes ago, XpliCT_ said:

Just so you know, the Moskva has arguably the worst performing HE for T10 CA.  The only ship you can argue is worse is the Henri, but that has MBRB and will generally start fires better.  

Moskva has insane AP pen for a cruiser, with HE that is usable, but not good.  The Kron has better AP than Moskva, but worse HE, much like the Stalingrad.  

I do very well with Moskva HE when I use it. It at least does it's job and seems to set fires quite often (for me). Stat wise it shows pretty good from what I see as does Henri IV. Stat wise Henri IV is actually tops for HE raw damage and fire chance %...

T10 Cruiser HE:

  1. Henri IV = 3400 / 22% / 10.8 sec + MBRB / 3X3
  2. Zao = 3400 / 19% / 13.7 sec / 4X3
  3. Moskva = 3100 / 17% / 10.3 sec / 3X3
  4. Des Moines = 2800 / 16% / 5.5 sec / 3X3
  5. Salem = 2800 / 14% / 5.5 sec / 3X3
  6. Hindenburg = 2500 / 15% / 11.0 sec / 4X3 
  7. Worcester = 2200 / 9% / 4.6 sec / 6X2

# of guns and ROF certainly will play into it but Moskva is not bad in the HE dept. 

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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19 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I do very well with Moskva HE when I use it. It at least does it's job and seems to set fires quite often (for me). Stat wise it shows pretty good from what I see as does Henri IV. Stat wise Henri IV is actually tops for HE raw damage and fire chance %...

T10 Cruiser HE:

  1. Henri IV = 3400 / 22% / 10.8 sec + MBRB / 3X3
  2. Zao = 3400 / 19% / 13.7 sec / 4X3
  3. Moskva = 3100 / 17% / 10.3 sec / 3X3
  4. Des Moines = 2800 / 16% / 5.5 sec / 3X3
  5. Salem = 2800 / 14% / 5.5 sec / 3X3
  6. Hindenburg = 2500 / 15% / 11.0 sec / 4X3 
  7. Worcester = 2200 / 9% / 4.6 sec / 6X2

# of guns and ROF certainly will play into it but Moskva is not bad in the HE dept. 

The Moskva has the second lowest HE dpm out of all cruisers, second behind the Henri without mbrb.  That matters far more than alpha. 

 

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Musashi, no question. 46cm eliminates most of of the aiming needed for most BB guns, you just need to lead them correctly and it'll deal damage.

I picked the Kronhstadt because I already have the Yamato with K117 paint. The fun part about it is that it is actually somewhat effective against DDs despite the low RoF because of the railgun velocity.

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8 minutes ago, XpliCT_ said:

The Moskva has the second lowest HE dpm out of all cruisers, second behind the Henri without mbrb.  That matters far more than alpha. 

 

That doesn't make it bad though.

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I am considering getting the Musashi with some coal and the Kronhstad with free XP.  I dont know that I have a Captain for the Musashi since all my IJN peeps are on DD duty....hmmmm.

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Moskva and Kronstadt are nothing alike. they have almost nothing in common outside shell velocity

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3 hours ago, XpliCT_ said:

The Moskva has the second lowest HE dpm out of all cruisers, second behind the Henri without mbrb.  That matters far more than alpha. 

 

Henri- highest CA average damage, lowest DPM

Des Moines- Lowest CA average damage, highest DPM

DPM isnt everything...

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