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TheDreadnought

Giving some love to Manual Secondaries

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In the latest waterline episode, they talk more about the idea of beefing up secondary builds, and possibly "Giving Some Love" to the Manual Secondaries skill.

I know a lot of people will assume that this means that it will allow all secondaries to fire, not just the ones that can bear on the highlighted target.

What else could it be?

Good idea or bad?

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Maybe being able to select focus targets on both sides of the ship?  Would be nice in some situations.  Or maybe even being able to split your secondaries between two targets on the same side.

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6 minutes ago, RightYouAreKen said:

Maybe being able to select focus targets on both sides of the ship?  Would be nice in some situations.  Or maybe even being able to split your secondaries between two targets on the same side.

This should have been done a long  time ago.  Just let secondaries target two people manually, and have the furthest one turn off when you target something new.  

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I think it would be cool if they automatically targeted the nearest ship to you to prevent that unseen DD from sneaking up on you while you have tunnel vision on that broadside Yammy.

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I would love it if without targeting your ship could automatically fire at ships at both sides (without dispersion bonus), ie work as if the captain didnt have mansec. And with targeting it would switch to the regular mansec, ie firing on one target only, with better dispersion. This would add more tactical flexibility and would warn you someone is I'm range when your attention is elsewhere. 

PS Also, give Mikasa an extra 1 km of secondary range plox 

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35 minutes ago, XpliCT_ said:

This should have been done a long  time ago.  Just let secondaries target two people manually, and have the furthest one turn off when you target something new.  

aye agreed!:cap_yes:

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As of late, I swapped out my manual secondary build for an IFHE no-manual-secondary build, and have been getting 2 or 3 close-quarters experts regularly... as opposed to 1 every so often. Just yesterday, I took out a Yugumo on my port and a Shimakaze I had no idea was on my starboard, got both kills with my secondaries and a double-strike. If i had been running manual secondaries, the Shimakaze would have killed me. 

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Having to select targets on each side of the ship would be great.  

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I think it would make sense for you to select targets on either side. It never made sense to me when you are surrounded by enemy ships that only one set of guns were going off. 

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23 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I think it would be cool if they automatically targeted the nearest ship to you to prevent that unseen DD from sneaking up on you while you have tunnel vision on that broadside Yammy.

I think you should actually have to do inputs rather than just have the game play itself for you. But that's me.

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29 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I think it would be cool if they automatically targeted the nearest ship to you to prevent that unseen DD from sneaking up on you while you have tunnel vision on that broadside Yammy.

So you shouldn't be punished for tunnel vision in  BB? Interesting perspective.

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1 minute ago, Canadatron said:

So you shouldn't be punished for tunnel vision in  BB? Interesting perspective.

LOL I do get punished OFTEN!!!!!

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Easiest thing would be to move the secondary range boost from AFT onto Manual Secondaries so it's not twice as expensive a build as any other. Especially since AFT doesn't boost AA range in the CV rework.

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3 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

LOL I do get punished OFTEN!!!!!

I understand that, but making secondaries auto firing/zero input from both sides seems a bit much, no? How many "hey, you're targeted!" warnings do some people need?

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6 minutes ago, Canadatron said:

making secondaries auto firing/zero input from both sides seems a bit much, no?

IRL the secondaries on each side had their own directors by the end of WW1 at least (in the predreadnought era they were manually aimed from each gun), so it makes sense that the direction from that could come from somewhere other than main armament control/captain's choice of primary target.

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Sec still firing even if you have manual sec firing skill, but Manual just focuses the fire...that would be nice.  And some love for American 5' guns...they were beast but are treated like they are 3' guns... they don't have to be as good as German and French if that is their calling card...just a bit better...and some love for the Roma sec be nice...its a bit underpowered right now.

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1 hour ago, TheDreadnought said:

In the latest waterline episode, they talk more about the idea of beefing up secondary builds, and possibly "Giving Some Love" to the Manual Secondaries skill.

I know a lot of people will assume that this means that it will allow all secondaries to fire, not just the ones that can bear on the highlighted target.

What else could it be?

Good idea or bad?

Honestly, I'd rather that they did away with the manual secondaries skill.  I don't like how the presence of that skill completely turns off your secondaries unless you select a target.

What I'd suggest for beefing up secondary builds is the following.

1. Make all BBs have good secondaries, relative, of course, to the secondary guns they actually carried.  No more of this, the Mass has good secondaries and the Alabama has meh secondaries, despite the fact that they're mounting the exact same damned guns!!!  (Don't take that as a criticism of premium ships.  I only used that example because both ships are of the same class with the exact same guns.)

2. Increase the accuracy of all secondaries so that they don't need a massive boost from a Man Sec skill.  However, I also suggest that secondary gun accuracy should be linked to tier, on the theory that older BBs secondaries wouldn't be as accurate as more modern (higher tier) BBs' secondaries.

3. Make manually selecting a target for your secondaries useful, but not to the degree see with the manual secondaries skill.  And all your secondaries to always work.  Manually selecting would just represent a minor to moderate buff against that individual target, or possibly a command to focus all secondaries that can bear on that target to shoot only at that target.

4. Any concerns that all of this would make secondaries too good should be alleviated by simply adjusting the overall accuracy of secondaries.

 

Would this make secondaries more mindless than some might claim they already are?  maybe.  I don't care.  There's already so much going on.  And I don't want to play a game where I have to be on my toes every fricking micro-second.  This is one of the turnoffs in WoT.  The pace of play is just too intense.  I prefer the somewhat slower pace of play in WoWS.  Leave secondaries as a mostly automatic function, with the option to manually select targets for increased focus fire.  And call it good.

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6 minutes ago, Sensai_Lawrence said:

I think doubling secondary range would be perfect.  except on ships that can already shoot 10km - give them like 15k  secondaries.  

I think that that's too much.  I think that having max secondary ranges for high tier ships be around 10-11, 12 at most, is just about right.  And it should be somewhat lower as the tiers decrease.

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Whatever it is they're planning to do, I really hope it's not the lame way they handled AA guns in the CV test. I'm afraid it will be, though...

 

For those who didn't get to see this, here's a basic sort of rundown.

(1) No more ctrl-click on a squadron to focus fire on it.

(2) Press O to bring up a new graphic in the middle of the screen (like B for voice commands) which will allow you to focus your AA to one side of the ship or the other, for extra firepower to that side and reduced to the other.

(3) Changing sides, or re-balancing the firepower, takes several seconds.

 

This is ridiculous, as each gun had its own dedicated crew. It's not like back in the age of sail where you could take men from the port side and add them to the starboard side to make running the guns in and out faster.

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54 minutes ago, wdarkk said:

Especially since AFT doesn't boost AA range in the CV rework.

Wait, what?  Where was this stated?  So after the CV rework it's just boosting <139mm and secondaries?  

On the one hand, that will suck.  On the other hand, that frees up a 4 point skill on DM, Worcester... pretty much any non-DD that has viable AA.

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I'll just dump my current ideals here:
We can keep the skill as is, but make all secondaries controlled by the player with greater range (with meh accuracy at further ranges). It'll punish those who tunnel vision, and it'll be good for dealing with a DD who is charging a BB, and to give cruisers a bit extra firepower.

Maybe make it so that the secondaries and the main battery are controlled by the same controls, but the secondary would only fire if it's possible for them to do.

I never understood why so many ships have these functional secondary guns if they are barely used or don't hit anything, especially on Cruisers, it'll be nice to see if a ship's secondary armament is an actual factor to consider outside of just range.

Nice to see WG looking into them.

Edited by JB_24

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