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BlailBlerg

Provide feedback to WG: Do not nerf YY like this

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This is a really not fun way of handling this situation. 

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20 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

This is a really not fun way of handling this situation. 

Since I still have nothing more than Changan, Anshan, and LoYang, and am pretty much out of the PA loop as a result; what exactly is happening to the YY?

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This is a very detailed and thought out reasoning of why yy should not be nerfed.  I'm sure WG will take note of it. 

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It's bad and I've yet to see or hear anyone else disagree that it's bad.

Nonetheless, it's published in the new patch notes; it's on. As I feared, they're Killdozering this blunt-force-gang-mugging-in-a-dark-alleyway of a nerf through. 

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10 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

This is a very detailed and thought out reasoning of why yy should not be nerfed.  I'm sure WG will take note of it. 

It's been discussed. Just because you may not be privy to other people's discussions (and threads) about it doesn't mean there's an absence of detailed and thought out reasoning behind why it's a bad nerf.

Furthermore, who said Yueyang shouldn't be adjusted or nerfed at all? ("Do not nerf YY like this")

Thanks for your thought provoking contribution. 

Edited by MrKillmister
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13 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Since I still have nothing more than Changan, Anshan, and LoYang, and am pretty much out of the PA loop as a result; what exactly is happening to the YY?

An increase from 3s to 4s in its gun reload.

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1 minute ago, MrKillmister said:

It's been discussed. Just because you may not be privy to other people's discussions (and threads) about it doesn't mean there's an absence of detailed and thought out reasoning behind why it's a bad nerf.

Furthermore, who said Yueyang shouldn't be adjusted or nerfed at all? 

Thanks for your thought provoking contribution. 

 

There are other threads on this topic, no need to spam the forums when discussion can be consolidated in one thread for easy reading and data collection.

 

Thanks.

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10 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

This is a very detailed and thought out reasoning of why yy should not be nerfed.  I'm sure WG will take note of it. 

I think that the OP is hoping for other people to add their feedback on this topic, rather than including some of his own.  Frankly, the OP should include some of his own feedback, if for no other reason than to get the ball rolling.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

An increase from 3s to 4s in its gun reload.

Plus 20s extension of torpedo reload time. 

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

An increase from 3s to 4s in its gun reload.

 

Not only that, her torps CD also has been increased by 20 sec

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Just now, RipNuN2 said:

 

There are other threads on this topic, no need to spam the forums when discussion can be consolidated in one thread for easy reading and data collection.

 

Thanks.

Changing your point now?

+ Now the nerf has been confirmed in the patch notes. Thanks, officer. 

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5 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Since I still have nothing more than Changan, Anshan, and LoYang, and am pretty much out of the PA loop as a result; what exactly is happening to the YY?

Per the WoWs FaceBook Dev Blog 

Quote

ST. Pan-Asian destroyer Yueyang.

The Tier X Pan-Asian destroyer is a strong ship, has good concealment, good rate of fire and the ability to install the consumable "Radar", which can effectively deal with adversaries, a small silhouette which gets less hits when under fire as well as low detection torpedoes which are very effective against cruisers and battleships. Of course, we must not forget about the unique smoke screen that allows you to successfully hide from enemies for much of the battle, as well as to fight more effectively for control points and retreat in the event of an unsuccessful skirmish.

All these factors allow the destroyer to significantly influence the outcome of the battle and is statistically superior to its classmates.

To address this, we have increased the reload time of the main caliber guns by 1 second (from 3 to 4 seconds) and torpedo tubes by 20 seconds (from 136 to 156 seconds). These changes will minimally affect the unique features of the destroyer, while bringing its statistics to the same level as other destroyers at its Tier.

I think WG Forgot that the YY can only have Radar by giving up its Smoke Screen. And that the only way the YY can fight other Destroyers is with its Guns. The YY is a great Radar scout ships in competitive matches where it counters stealthy Destroyers. This Nerf doesn't change what the YY does in competitive battles just makes it harder to gun down the destroyers it meets on caps. 

Lets not forget the Khaba was over powered so WG nerf'd it several times and now the ship isn't fun to play. Also players have learned how to hit it from 13km so surviving a battle is a challenge. 

The Grozovoi was junk so WG Buff'd the snot out of it. Now I would rather play the Groz over the Khaba. 

The Gearing model is wrong which leads to it eating a lot of pen damage but WG isn't interested in fixing it. 

The Shima has terrible guns but ok Torpedoes. But who cares about buffing the biggest Wall of Skill ship. 

The Harugumo is fun to play so that means its over powered and will be Nerf'd in the future. 

The Z-52 seems ok but than I don't play it and don't see them doing much in battle. 

The Daring is new and I don't have one...Don't see many doing anything in battle either. 

The YueYang, a Challenging ship to play in random battles with its Radar. It only can torpedo deep water ships and gun fight destroyers.

Maybe the problem isn't that the YY is over powered but that several other Tier 10 destroyers are under powered. 

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1 minute ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

Not only that, her torps CD also has been increased by 20 sec

Yeah, forgot about that.  My bad.

Overall, the reload nerfs seem pretty severe to me.  Heck, the gun reload nerf seems worse, if only because the YY can't even use her torpedoes for anti-DD self defense.  The gun reload nerf seems to turn the YY into more of a DD whose mission is a) spamming torps and b) anti-larger ship HE spamming from smoke, and away from being a more aggressive anti-DD combatant.

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8 minutes ago, MrKillmister said:

Changing your point now?

+ Now the nerf has been confirmed in the patch notes. Thanks, officer. 

 

You mentioned other threads existed on the topic so consolidation is a logical approach. The original point stands on its own merits.

 

Thanks.

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51 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

This is a really not fun way of handling this situation. 

The nerf seems reasonable to me.

The only thing that WG should maybe do is to offer a refund option to people that bought permacamo for YY.

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WG seems to have forgotten the DWT were a mixed blessing to balance the ship already.  Problem is, I believe that uniqueness draws better players to use her which unfairly skews the numbers.  In reality, is there statistical significance between the top three?

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3 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

 

Lets not forget the Khaba was over powered so WG nerf'd it several times and now the ship isn't fun to play. Also players have learned how to hit it from 13km so surviving a battle is a challenge. 

The Grozovoi was junk so WG Buff'd the snot out of it. Now I would rather play the Groz over the Khaba. 

The Gearing model is wrong which leads to it eating a lot of pen damage but WG isn't interested in fixing it. 

The Shima has terrible guns but ok Torpedoes. But who cares about buffing the biggest Wall of Skill ship. 

The Harugumo is fun to play so that means its over powered and will be Nerf'd in the future. 

The Z-52 seems ok but than I don't play it and don't see them doing much in battle. 

The Daring is new and I don't have one...Don't see many doing anything in battle either. 

The YueYang, a Challenging ship to play in random battles with its Radar. It only can torpedo deep water ships and gun fight destroyers.

Maybe the problem isn't that the YY is over powered but that several other Tier 10 destroyers are under powered. 

I don't think that the Khab is unfun to play.  It's just a bit boring to me, because it's a 24/7 gunboat with nearly useless torpedoes.  The Groz is more fun for me because it's a true hybrid, though leaning a bit towards the gunboat side of hybrid, perhaps.

I personally don't find the Harugumo fun to play.  Oh, piling up the damage with its guns can be amusing in its own way.  But I don't really enjoy the slow, unagile IJN gunboat style epitomized by the Akizuki and Harugumo.  I find the Kitakaze a lot more enjoyable, because it's basically an Akizuki with speed, whereas the Harugumo is an Akizuki with more guns, but the same slow, unagile characteristics.  I continue to wish that the tier 10 in this line had been a further enhancement of the Kitakaze style, rather than an enhancement of the slow, unagile Akizuki.

 

The Z-52 is quite good, but without longer ranged torpedoes, it's too risky to use them unless you know that there's no radar ship in the immediate vicinity.  But once you feel safe from radar, the Z is a very powerful DD with its quick reloading torpedoes.

Frankly, the problem that any DD has if its torps don't have at least 12 km of range is radar.  And most of the time, when DDs are uncertain about radar, they'll tend to be rather cautious.  I think that this is a big reason why the Gearing and YY are popular Clan Battles DDs.  (And the Shimmy to a lesser degree.)  They have the torp range to not need to get so close to the enemy that they risk being radared by enemy cruisers.  And the result is that perfectly decent DDs with 10-11 km torpedoes don't see as much action in CB's.

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6 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

Nerf YY's radar. Or smoke. Or both. Keep the reloads as current. Plskthnx.

I don't think that the nerf would feel as severe if it was only a nerf to the torpedo reload.  But the guns are the YY's only defense against enemy DDs.

With this double nerf, I predict that the YY will "want" to be played a bit differently.  More like those hybrids whose guns also don't have such low reloads, and often tend to prefer to engage heavier ships with those guns rather than be counter-DD DDs.  But when you then consider that the YY has or might have radar, it seems to make for a strange combination, since radar seems like the tool that a counter-DD DD would possess. 

Meh, only time will tell.

 

Edited by Crucis

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26 minutes ago, Crucis said:

An increase from 3s to 4s in its gun reload.

and something like a 30-second increase to its torpedo reload. That's the real kick in the testes 

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This is a really awful change.

Obviously its not effecting competitive at all... because the radar is the issue most likely.

Meanwhile, Radar is about to be mechanically changed, and BB AP is about to be changed. One of those will nerf the YY, the other will buff the gearing a fair amount.

why would we not wait for those changes to come through first?

after this change the YY is strictly a far worse gearing. less HP, doesnt shatter 127mm HE,  better reload all around. Am i supposed to believe the weakest radar at tier is supposed to cover those loses? that the smoke is somehow still relevant? yeah WG sounds fun to have a ship that cant do damage....seems like a good concept of a ship for people to play outside competitive.

 

WG this is by far one of the worst balance decisions you've made in recent history.

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When WG has to spend three full paragraphs of disjointed, conflicting non-facts to justify the nerfs, and ended with "have relatively minor effects," you know they are not telling the truth.

Someone in WG got owned, hard, by a YY.

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I stopped my grinding in that line because of the radar nerf fear, good choice it seems.

 

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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I don't think that the nerf would feel as severe if it was only a nerf to the torpedo reload.  But the guns are the YY's only defense against enemy DDs.

With this double nerf, I predict that the YY will "want" to be played a bit differently.  More like those hybrids whose guns also don't have such low reloads, and often tend to prefer to engage heavier ships with those guns rather than be counter-DD DDs.  But when you then consider that the YY has or might have radar, it seems to make for a strange combination, since radar seems like the tool that a counter-DD DD would possess. 

Meh, only time will tell.

My comment was directed at the fact that YY was considered too strong by WG because of great smoke (in Randoms) or her Radar (CB and Ranked). The option WG chose though, was rather than nerfing the Radar, or toning down the PA DD smoke, was to nerf YY elsewhere; both her guns and torps. This doesn't exactly change what made her strong in any of those modes; she can still scout with impunity and just let her team deal with revealed threats while she keeps silent. Especially in CB, where she was a top pick for Clans as a scout.

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3 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

My comment was directed at the fact that YY was considered too strong by WG because of great smoke (in Randoms) or her Radar (CB and Ranked). The option WG chose though, was rather than nerfing the Radar, or toning down the PA DD smoke, was to nerf YY elsewhere; both her guns and torps. This doesn't exactly change what made her strong in any of those modes; she can still scout with impunity and just let her team deal with revealed threats while she keeps silent. Especially in CB, where she was a top pick for Clans as a scout.

But the thing is that the YY made a good scout because of a combination of things, one of which was her guns.  She could scout with her good concealment and, if mounted, radar, and if she got into a fight with another DD, she had the guns to look after herself.  No more.  Now, the YY is no better than a number of other tier 10 DDs in that regard.

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