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Destroyer_KuroshioKai

Z-52 and other German DDs in the current meta

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I've seen way too many posts saying this ship is dead, weak, power creeped, etc.  IMO people are caught in a meta shift from their initial play style.  It is really rare these days to be able to just rush into a cap and smoke/hydro and kill an enemy DD or three.  I find a lot more success playing her and other German DDs  as torp boats initially and use the guns when I see opportunities.  I also changed my build a bit, giving up PM2 for SG2 to reduce the rudder shift making her a bit less sluggish when evading fire.  With speed boost active its possible to kite and farm a bit in certain situations.

I talk a lot more in depth about things here:

 

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
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Good points, you just can't bully caps now or match up with the gun boats about and prevalence of radar.

Z52 is still more than capable

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100% with you on the Z-52 as a torp boat. I’ll have to try SG2.

Lately with the Legendary mod, I built full torp boat to get 58.5 sec reload which is hella fun.  I’m also experimenting with torpedo acceleration!  The 8.5k range with 74kt speed is comparable to the Shimakaze’s F3’s. Legendary Zed gets 2x4 torps every 59s, which is like 4x4 every 117s. Shimmy F3 gets 3x5 every 110s...

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4 minutes ago, n00bot said:

100% with you on the Z-52 as a torp boat. I’ll have to try SG2.

Lately with the Legendary mod, I built full torp boat to get 58.5 sec reload which is hella fun.  I’m also experimenting with torpedo acceleration!  The 8.5k range with 74kt speed is comparable to the Shimakaze’s F3’s. Legendary Zed gets 2x4 torps every 59s, which is like 4x4 every 117s. Shimmy F3 gets 3x5 every 110s...

Good point I need to grind that mod out so I can give it a try.

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I agree, I am currently testing her and my impression so far is very positive.

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5 hours ago, n00bot said:

100% with you on the Z-52 as a torp boat. I’ll have to try SG2.

Lately with the Legendary mod, I built full torp boat to get 58.5 sec reload which is hella fun.  I’m also experimenting with torpedo acceleration!  The 8.5k range with 74kt speed is comparable to the Shimakaze’s F3’s. Legendary Zed gets 2x4 torps every 59s, which is like 4x4 every 117s. Shimmy F3 gets 3x5 every 110s...

I have thought about this, my only hang up is the boat does not speed tank like Shima can.  Those torps are better than F3s since they have the speed but a much smaller reaction time as well.  I’m not sure about giving up the .34km in concealment either, but that could just require an adjustment on play style.

It is interesting to look at, and I’ll probably test it the next free reset we get.

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On 11/20/2018 at 12:17 AM, n00bot said:

Lately with the Legendary mod, I built full torp boat to get 58.5 sec reload which is hella fun.  I’m also experimenting with torpedo acceleration!  The 8.5k range with 74kt speed is comparable to the Shimakaze’s F3’s. Legendary Zed gets 2x4 torps every 59s, which is like 4x4 every 117s. Shimmy F3 gets 3x5 every 110s...

I'll have to try that out.   I can see that build having a very big impact mid to late game when opfor DD's have been thinned out and one has less of a risk of being out detected.   Even keeping to the 10km range I can see I can see firing off a salvo ant max range then working closer for another salvo just as the first is getting to target.    Bottom line like DK said, the ship is still very strong (imo in almost any configuration) just have to shift play style to account for the meta.

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I am one of those that would say this boat needs a buff in order to compete. I have many other T10 DDs that I can list are just better ships than the Z. Of course you can still play it, but you really have to make up for all it's shortcomings compared to other Destroyers at T10.

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I really don't see any weaknesses in the Z52.

Radar has certainly put a crimp in it's capability to cap at the beginning of the game. But if you don't do that, the Z52 is still extremely capable of bullying off opposing DDs in mid-game.

And it's still the best torp boat at T10. Even better than the Gearing. Fast reload torps, good concealment to use them.

You just have to be a bit more careful now with the amount of firepower wandering around. But that's true for all DDs.

Edited by LAnybody
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Wet your whistle on some CUTER on CUTER violence in a scrim we had while CB was dead.  Very refreshing to have freedom of maneuver and not be a smoke [edited].  If teams give her the freedom to work she can work this CB season.

 

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Agree 100%. 

Im a dd main and I love bb on the A line screaming at me to cap 30 sec into a match. Now with radar it’s important to spot the cap and see what’s coming before giving location away. 

I stay back in the Zs and spam torps early and let the battle develop before getting more aggressive. 

The better concealment and double rear turrets make the z46 a better boat for me but I love all the Zs 

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On 11/20/2018 at 12:25 AM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I've seen way too many posts saying this ship is dead, weak, power creeped, etc.  IMO people are caught in a meta shift from their initial play style.  It is really rare these days to be able to just rush into a cap and smoke/hydro and kill an enemy DD or three.  I find a lot more success playing her and other German DDs  as torp boats initially and use the guns when I see opportunities.  I also changed my build a bit, giving up PM2 for SG2 to reduce the rudder shift making her a bit less sluggish when evading fire.  With speed boost active its possible to kite and farm a bit in certain situations.

I talk a lot more in depth about things here:

 

Agreed, its a perfectly fine cap contester and a area denial DD at any game stage 

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In preparation of the upcoming T9 ranked here's Z-46's commentary.  TLDW, she's one hell of a wild card.  I expect good things.  In the video I show a few trollish ways to use cover in DDs with most of their guns in the stern.  The trick is keeping your large superstructure tucked in, while getting just enough room for the rear guns to clear.  You are almost impossible to hit when done right.  The torpedoes and the AP are disgustingly strong as usual.

 

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A video focused more on specific hydro tactics on Z-52, including the Snow Storm vision mechanics where Z-52 has a 6km spotting range with its hydro, but only 5.5km concealment range.  Totally broken.

 

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7 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Z-52 is my favourite Tier X DD; didn't realise it was supposed to be a poor performer.

I agree its a strong ship, but its one of the ships I receive the most requests for. 

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How are people finding the z-52 holding up in the new CV heavy meta? I ask because i'm thinking about using a bit of gold to get past the last bit of z-46 grind.

There's a marked improvement in the 52s AA over the 46 in terms of numbers but does it actually do anything for you in game? 

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I feel my overall damage has gone down in the z-52, I just cant keep myself concealed enough so I can torp on every reuse, or overextend to get those nice unexpected positions to use those torps. On the other hand, when playing for the objective, I´ve beed doing well and maintained my winrate. Full AA build, and I flak some planes down. But nothing too crazy. 

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Honestly really dissapointed with this ship. T61, maas, gaede all super fun. Then you hit tier 8 and these ships are just absolutely awful. You cant win a gun trade without getting blown up 10km torps have little to no opportunity for use. It's just so dissapointing to go from fun gameplay at 4/5/6/7 to being able to do absolutely nothing. The ship is funner in a division but my god being entirely dependent on other people to be able to do what the ship was seemingly designed to do is gross.

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Here's a Z-23 game, a ship that seemingly time forgot after the Lo Yang hydro buff.  This is not a clean game.  I make a few mistakes that I go over, losing a bunch of HP when I blunder into 4 undetected ships, a missed damage opportunity, and miss playing kiting away from an island as time is ticking down where I get spotted and almost sunk.  There is a lot of learning that can occur in this video of me being a potato.

 

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I have been spending quite a bit of time looking at the German DD line after the flooding nerf really limited some of the super fast reload torp options.  I have began to shift my focus here more towards gun builds for a few reasons.  First the new DD threats.  Specifically the buffed Grozovoy (especially the with legendary upgrade and Ovechkin), Harugumo, and pehaps most threatening, the Daring.  All of these DDs have tremendous fire power in rather sneaky, albeit somewhat clumsy packages.

Second the evisceration of flooding damage.  This limits some of the viability of stacking flooding damage with max torpedo DPM builds on Z-46 and Z-52.  The torpedos are still fantasic, will have high hit rates with modest effort, but its just not the same level of terror you could instill knowing torps where on their way every minute and each one had Liquidator potential.

Zeds still have their tricks, as you will see in the video where I walk through a systematic nearly solo assassination of a Harugumo right out from under his support.  The video has a few more examples of me making a CV pull their hair out.  I walk you through how to use concealment, allied AA positioning, misdirection and patience against a CV.  Even a large DD like Z-52 can make CVs miss, or frustrate them to no end.  The video would probably be worth the watch for that alone if you struggle with CVs.

Another experiment I have been running is with a competitive Z-52 captain.  Specifically a special German captain with improved JOAT.  The idea being that Zeds are very strong with their consumables available, much weaker without.  Instead of using AR which relies on lost HP to buff the ship, you focus on HP preservation, and by having your consumables up faster it results in more consistent pressure on the enemy, their DDs in particular.    I am liking what I am seeing in this build.

 

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