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Shima got a buff? Sweet!

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Japanese destroyers Hatsuharu, Fubuki, Shiratsuyu, Akatsuki, Kagero, Yugumo, Shimakaze, Shinonome, Asashio, Asashio B, HSF Harekaze:

  • Increased damage from HE shells from 1800 to 2150
  • Increased Chance of Fire from 7 to 9%.

And I just gotta point out this post I made a few weeks ago: 

Note the suggested HE alpha increase: 2100-2200, which averages out to 2150!

Hey WG, if you ever need advice on balancing other DDs -- just ask :cap_yes:

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Waiting for the other shoe to drop. WG never buffs IJN without an included nerf.

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:cap_hmm:Funny thing is will still have a bunch Japanese dd players that will never fire their guns

Edited by silverdahc
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12 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Waiting for the other shoe to drop. WG never buffs IJN without an included nerf.

This is nothing more than a placate.
minimally buffing guns on torpedo boats?

At the same time major nerfs to YY.


Would be like buffing Yamato AA DPS by 5% and then nerfing Republique reload to 45s. Just to say "Look we made up for the nerf by making Yamato have strong AA"

Edited by Sbane12

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1 minute ago, silverdahc said:

:cap_hmm:Funny thing is will still have a bunch Japanese dd players that will never fire their guns even when spotted 

Yeah lol, like Akatsuki can do some damage if the user knows to use their guns at appropriate times such as when no other enemy ships can shoot at you and you have another DD gunning for you. Far too often such ships will not fire their guns at you though despite the potential for decent damage.

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4 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

:cap_hmm:Funny thing is will still have a bunch Japanese dd players that will never fire their guns

The old T8 Fubuki A hull was excellent for a gun build. All the USN DD thought you would run...

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Just now, Erebthoron said:

The old T8 Fubuki A hull was excellent for a gun build. All the USN DD thought you would run...

 That's the thing is most their guns point backwards so chasing one down is never been easy now there going to be a lot Tougher:cap_yes:

And truly I think they deserve it

It's gonna be fun lighting fires on BBs after a few flood hits quickly too:cap_rambo:

 

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Fire chance ... welcome.

damage increase.. pointless. They even mention it 'helps' only when meeting near-dead destroyers of other nations.

They need to fix the 20km torpedo ... that's the only real fix it needs.

Lower the detect to 1km. Speed to 45kn. Damage to 14k per torp.

Do that and the long lance becomes very well balanced.

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9 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Fire chance ... welcome.

damage increase.. pointless. They even mention it 'helps' only when meeting near-dead destroyers of other nations.

They need to fix the 20km torpedo ... that's the only real fix it needs.

Lower the detect to 1km. Speed to 45kn. Damage to 14k per torp.

Do that and the long lance becomes very well balanced.

We do not need to buff the noob-bait torps.

 

Stop being a backlining scrub and use the 12km torps.

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11 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Fire chance ... welcome.

damage increase.. pointless. They even mention it 'helps' only when meeting near-dead destroyers of other nations.

They need to fix the 20km torpedo ... that's the only real fix it needs.

Lower the detect to 1km. Speed to 45kn. Damage to 14k per torp.

Do that and the long lance becomes very well balanced.

 

A 20% increase in DPM is pointless? lol

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3 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

A 20% increase in DPM is pointless? lol

for a ship with half the ROF of any other and with arthritic turrets? Yes. Its only of token help vs near dead enemy DDs. It won't do squat to help you when meeting a half health or higher DD of any other nation in a gun battle.

Shima is a torp specialist. THE torp specialist of the whole game.

Guns aren't its thing. Torps are. They need to get fixed in a balance way. As it stands right now a Gearing has better torp capability than a shimakaze. Long range, low detectability, good damage and good speed.

Lowering them to 45kn counters the 20km range so no accurate long range torp spam.

Lowering damage balanced out the total salvo damage to one not much higher than a Gearing's.

Lowering detect to 1km balances out the 45kn speed and increases hit rate.

Remember, IJN torps still have the widest torp-gap rate of all nations.

 

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39 minutes ago, Ajax_the_Great1 said:

But the guns have the same mm size as the USN ones. My immersions are ruined!

Bore diameter is not necessarily correlate with the damaging capabilities of a gun. That said, in-game numbers are all arbitrary and is imply for balance. Granted the Japanese 12.7cm did have a muzzle velocity 20% greater than it's American counterpart.

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1 hour ago, Sbane12 said:

This is nothing more than a placate.
minimally buffing guns on torpedo boats?

At the same time major nerfs to YY.


Would be like buffing Yamato AA DPS by 5% and then nerfing Republique reload to 45s. Just to say "Look we made up for the nerf by making Yamato have strong AA"

It's not a placate, this is actually returning the guns to what they were before November 2016 when ROF was buffed and Alpha was nerfed.

 

This is directly undoing a previous, unnecessary nerf.

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2 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

for a ship with half the ROF of any other and with arthritic turrets? Yes. Its only of token help vs near dead enemy DDs. It won't do squat to help you when meeting a half health or higher DD of any other nation in a gun battle.

 

 

Entirely untrue. The guns are extremely potent if you know how to use them. If you're playing the Shima as a pure torpedo boat, you're not maximizing its potential. 

EDIT: To further emphasize this point...

In my 100 Shima games, I've sunk 82 ships with torpedoes and 72 ships with guns. 

Yes, very useless. 

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT
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5 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

A 20% increase in DPM is pointless? lol

Also, this. I could almost care less about normal IJN DD's fire chances. Their gun are for finishing off enemy DDs or simply a means of self-defense in 90% of cases. Their DPM matters to me tenfold more. Plus higher DPM effectively improves fire chances.

Edited by goldeagle1123

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3 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

Entirely untrue. The guns are extremely potent if you know how to use them. If you're playing the Shima as a pure torpedo boat, you're not maximizing its potential. 

Yeah, 'learn to use them' ... like that other guy claiming one should angle so that enemy guns hit you in the AA guns and thus take almost no damage. 'Tanking' via exploiting. Guess what? Once they put in the fix to that nonsense (per dev blog that will happen) I'd like to see that statement backed with video of him gunning down another DD that is 50% hp or higher where both hit each other.

You can't argue with math. They aren't potent. The ROF and damage is still woefully under that of any other DD. Shima has the lowest health pool to boot.

 

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Gotta love people arguing with the best shima driver on the server. Obviously he wouldnt know how to use the shima when he averages 105k damage per battle in the boat and wins 74% of the time.

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50 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

Entirely untrue. The guns are extremely potent if you know how to use them. If you're playing the Shima as a pure torpedo boat, you're not maximizing its potential. 

EDIT: To further emphasize this point...

In my 100 Shima games, I've sunk 82 ships with torpedoes and 72 ships with guns. 

Yes, very useless. 

To Skyfaller it is useless.

I mean just him asking to buff the 20km torps tells what kind of Shima player he is.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah lol, like Akatsuki can do some damage if the user knows to use their guns at appropriate times such as when no other enemy ships can shoot at you and you have another DD gunning for you. Far too often such ships will not fire their guns at you though despite the potential for decent damage.

I do agree I find the Akatsuki a great boat and the guns can be very effective.  I generally try to play it as a torp boat but If I am confronted by any other DD I do not hesitate to use the guns at all.

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3 minutes ago, D_I_P_Scout said:

I do agree I find the Akatsuki a great boat and the guns can be very effective.  I generally try to play it as a torp boat but If I am confronted by any other DD I do not hesitate to use the guns at all.

I have a 14-point gunboat build on my Akatsuki (with BFT and AFT) and it's actually effective

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25 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

A 20% increase in DPM is pointless? lol

Akatsuki - A torp boat, if it actually uses all 6 guns, jumps 28512 to 34056 - an increase of 5544 damage.

  1. Mahan, an actual gunboat, does 44550 DPM
  2. Minsk - 37620
  3. Maass - 37125
  4. Jervis - 40392
  5. Gadjah - 40392
  6. Bys - 36249

The torps 

  1. Akatsuki - 3x3, 10 km, 62 knots, 1.6 km spotting.
  2. Mahan - 3x4, 9.2 km, 55 knots, 1.1 km spotting
  3. Minsk - 2x4, 4 km, 65 knots, 1.3 km spotting
  4. Maass - 2x4, 8.5 km, 65 knots, 1.3 km spotting
  5. Jervis - 2x5, 7km, 59 knots, 1.2 km spotting 
  6. Gadjah - 2x5, 8km, 61 knots, 0.8 km spotting
  7. Blys - 2x3, 8 km, 57 knots, 1.2 km spotting

Leaves about 2 seconds more to react over all other nations. All but Minsk can also stealth torp, Unless Mahan goes for the higher speed shorter range torps, typically has only 1 torp more, or 1 less, than other nations, has better stealth by a little bit - but only effective when NOT shooting the guns unless in smoke, which applies to all of them, most, if not all, have better gun range, all have higher HP, and most have around the same speed.

So a 19.4% increase in maximum HE DPS, for a bunch of ships based around using stealth, and designed as torpedo boats, that has torps that leave a 9.61 second base reaction time vs the average of the others of 7.45 seconds (for some context the 'OP' Kami clones leave 7.67 seconds to react), is still the absolute worst of gun DPS, has a harder time maneuvering while keeping guns trained, with the lowest HP pool of the type. So, while it may not be "useless" - it's not exactly "useful". Maybe for the portion that is supposed to be the early stages of the gun line, that still needs work - but the torp line, really IJN overall, its a dumb change. it's something like 150 damage per round that hits and pens, and even then Wargaming has acknowledge this is still meant more to finish off an already shot to pieces enemy DD a little faster. 

Don't need the ludicrous changes he proposes, literally all that's needed is to change that 1.6 spotting range, to the same 1.3 as every other nation with torps of that speed range, and for the higher speed ones than that, the same 1.4 others have, including the Shima 8 and 12 km torps. The 20's, however, should maybe have less of a nerf, but still be nerfed a bit to encourage NOT using them. I have enough people TK'ing me even when they have a 4 km range, don't need a plague of newly inspired 20 km back of the map fools doing it. that small change would do wonders for IJN DD's. 

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