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grorg

Good deal bad deal what do you think

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This is a real question to what in my opinion, yes opinion, is a real headscratcher.

     Lots of threads now about when we are going to get subs, mmm subs, in the game trees. 

   If subs are added to the game permanently why should I play anything else? 

    It seems to me this will change the game's Dynamics immensely. If I can use total stealth why should I suffer the current meta as a cruiser? 

    I would really enjoy some discussion on the topic. I love this game and I am I'd like to say a cruiser captain, though I love my Cesare. 

          Thanks m8s good hunting to all.

Edited by grorg

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Sorry m8s fail on my part to start new thread

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40 minutes ago, grorg said:

 If subs are added to the game permanently why should I play anything else?

My question is: why would you play subs to begin with? Destroyers already fill the sneaky torpedo ambusher role, and are far better at it, being three times as fast as contemporary submarines and carrying a much stronger torpedo loadout. People say West Virginia couldn't work at T8 because she only goes 21 knots on those huge maps, well, era appropriate submarines wish they could go 21 knots, and have a far more limited and cumbersome armament than US Standards do.

What I find funniest of all is those people who whine about putting WV at T8 saying she's too slow to count, yet still want submarines in the game and actually believe they can be competitive, instead of wholly outclassed.

"But they work in the Halloween event!"

Yes, because they're given a hilariously outrageous speed compared to their historical counterparts and dumb bot enemies to shoot at that spawn very close. Imagine the same distances as on the Halloween map on a 30 knot ship with 20km guns instead of a submarine. If you want the authentic submarine experience, try doing the Halloween event at 1/2 speed max.

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44 minutes ago, grorg said:

 

You won't have total stealth. You will have to surface for air. I am not sure how the radar is going to work against subs but if they are spotted by that, then good luck. Those slow speed subs will have a problem.

I just hope that they do not allow subs to spot unless they are on the surface.

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2 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

I just hope that they do not allow subs to spot unless they are on the surface.

My first reaction is that subs shouldn't be allowed to spot at all.  Let each see what he sees, but no update to the rest of the fleet.  And vice versa? 

Unfortunately for the mechanism, chat and comms can work around that restriction.  So subs can spot?  Guess so.

 

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6 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

My first reaction is that subs shouldn't be allowed to spot at all.  Let each see what he sees, but no update to the rest of the fleet.  And vice versa? 

Unfortunately for the mechanism, chat and comms can work around that restriction.  So subs can spot?  Guess so.

 

I would be good with the subs not being able to spot but we all know that they will be able to.

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To make subs work in this game you have to give them Fantasy ability's, And if you do that you will have to give all the ships Fantasy ability's. And if you go there you might as well loose the WW2/quasi realistic attachment and make it a complete Fantasy alternate universe Shooter.

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29 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

You won't have total stealth. You will have to surface for air. I am not sure how the radar is going to work against subs but if they are spotted by that, then good luck. Those slow speed subs will have a problem.

I just hope that they do not allow subs to spot unless they are on the surface.

well technically radar doesn't work under water, hydro does however, so German ships and Uk DDs will have a good counter to subs if they are added.:fish_book:

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9 minutes ago, BladedPheonix said:

well technically radar doesn't work under water, hydro does however, so German ships and Uk DDs will have a good counter to subs if they are added.:fish_book:

True, but WG has radar going thru islands. So, it may also go under water.

Edited by jager_geist

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16 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

To make subs work in this game you have to give them Fantasy ability's, And if you do that you will have to give all the ships Fantasy ability's. And if you go there you might as well loose the WW2/quasi realistic attachment and make it a complete Fantasy alternate universe Shooter.

I want my Klingon Bird of Prey!

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54 minutes ago, Lert said:

My question is: why would you play subs to begin with? Destroyers already fill the sneaky torpedo ambusher role, and are far better at it, being three times as fast as contemporary submarines and carrying a much stronger torpedo loadout. People say West Virginia couldn't work at T8 because she only goes 21 knots on those huge maps, well, era appropriate submarines wish they could go 21 knots, and have a far more limited and cumbersome armament than US Standards do.

What I find funniest of all is those people who whine about putting WV at T8 saying she's too slow to count, yet still want submarines in the game and actually believe they can be competitive, instead of wholly outclassed.

"But they work in the Halloween event!"

Yes, because they're given a hilariously outrageous speed compared to their historical counterparts and dumb bot enemies to shoot at that spawn very close. Imagine the same distances as on the Halloween map on a 30 knot ship with 20km guns instead of a submarine. If you want the authentic submarine experience, try doing the Halloween event at 1/2 speed max.

Agreed. The Halloween event has been fun and entertaining but adding "super arcade" mode subs to the regular game would kind of blow it for me. I fully realize that this is an arcade game and not a simulator but the game in it's current form is still "reasonably" realistic. Subs in game would have to have Halloween like capabilities which in my mind are way outside the boundaries realism. I want to plays WOWS, not Space Invaders.

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DDs are overburdened now, scouting, watching for imminent destruction, ooops there is the enemy DD now...evasive action.  How in the world would they have TIME to hunt a sub?  Now add in depth charges etc.  DDs could not hunt a sub in a surface combat environment in the real world, and certainly not here.  So now that would fall to CAs...have to mount non historical depth charges and add hydro....sound like a BIG FAT MESS to me to add subs... and as stated, if you get your jollies sailing around slower than the Bogue....well...I think you should take up a farming game, probably more exciting.

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1 hour ago, Raven114 said:

To make subs work in this game you have to give them Fantasy ability's, And if you do that you will have to give all the ships Fantasy ability's. And if you go there you might as well loose the WW2/quasi realistic attachment and make it a complete Fantasy alternate universe Shooter.

SDF-1 confirmed!

My dream is about to be reality!

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My reaction is "oh please for the love of God and RNGesus do not add subs to the regular game". Just no, no, no, and for good measure...NO!

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DDs would finally fulfill the role as screening for Uboats.  Sonars would be added to dd's to hunt the subs down. 

In Modern Naval Strike group, includes...some of you should know this. 

Carrier, several Curisers, Destroyer Squadron &about 2 Subs(used to screen the group of surface ships and other subs) & escort and supply ships.

the point is each of those ships have a role to play.  

in this game, the DDs and Subs on the same team would compliment each other, by not only recon but hunting down subs.  the strategy of the game play will immensely change, no doubt!  i find that exciting. i don't know why you wouldn't either.  like i said in other threads, What are you really afraid of? Change, don't want to leave your comfort zone, afraid of challenges, stubbornness, or just afraid of the unknown?  

we all have are differences and preferences of entertainment, however, all of have one thing in common....we are all GAMERS!  we pick games because for our own entertainment and to challenge our selves and other opponents on the playing field or even against an AI.  if it wasn't for the challenges it would be to easy and too boring and you would simply stop playing and find another game to play.  if subs are added, really, would you leave this game!? those that are on this form seem to love it enough to spend the time and energy to bitc...voice opinions on the subject.  if you didnt care ....would you even still be here? 

it makes me "Scratch my head".  why so much opposition when something new is introduced?

i play a verity of games in my past, and almost all of them have died simply because is could not evolve and interest diminished because of lack of new contents and was repetitive and simply board people. i, for one, love the new changes they introduce! its up to us "Gamers" to meet that new challenge, beat the odd, find the winning solution,  and better ourselves at the game we supposedly love so much. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Morpheous said:

DDs are overburdened now, scouting, watching for imminent destruction, ooops there is the enemy DD now...evasive action.  How in the world would they have TIME to hunt a sub?

The 5-minute "dead spot" at the start is always cited as a problem in WoWS.  Make subs slow, unable to spot, and start them close to caps.  Then the start of the game would be a round of ASW warfare while the slow botes came up. 

 

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The Halloween event subs are in no way representative of actual subs of the game period. They are super subs except for the oxygen capacity. Subs of the period would be slower on the surface than even the slowest ship the Bogue and 1/2 that submerged. They would however not have to surface for air in the 20 minutes of game time since they could easily stay submerged for perhaps 12 hours.  

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To All of you future Bubbleheads: 

 3,500 merchant ships (unarmed) and 175 (escort) warships were sunk in the Atlantic for the loss of 783 U-boats (the majority being Type VII submarines) 
The U Boat was only successful in sinking merchant ships sailing on predicted routes from USA and Canada to England and Russia. The speed of the U Boats was actually to slow to engage in stealth combat after the first strike was delivered. The numbers of lost U Boats to lost Escort warships was  1.7 to 7.8 in favor of the allies.
 German shipyards built 1,156 U-boats, of which 784 were lost from enemy action or other causes.(More than 2/3s of all built)
Japan's Navy Altogether 41 submarines were built with the capability to carry seaplanes. Most IJN submarine aircraft carriers could carry only one aircraft, but I-14 had hangar space for two, and the giant I-400-class three.Various other Subs were  built but in such small numbers ( mini subs and 2 man versions launched by  larger ships)
For WG to add submarines to the game they would not survive past the 4 min mark before being detected and obliterated...... 
If the sub line was to use the same close to historical data the rest of the ship lines use.
Anything other would be pure fantasy.
The scenarios work only because of Fantasy. ( Keep the fantasy in scenarios)
Place my Name in the NO column for subs in the live modes.
 
 

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1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

The 5-minute "dead spot" at the start is always cited as a problem in WoWS.  Make subs slow, unable to spot, and start them close to caps.  Then the start of the game would be a round of ASW warfare while the slow botes came up. 

 

haha DDs would contact subs same time they contact other dds...oh and then CAs and BBs start shooting at them too... nice idea, and I agree they would have to start near caps...but its a an unworkable idea. (subs)

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