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Lady_Athena

Slowing down is backwards...

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I've felt this way ever since Alpha.. But slowing your ship down is "backwards" than what it should be.

Example:

going full speed then slowing to a stop:

30km to 20km takes about 1 second.. going from 20km to 10km takes about 5 seconds, and going from 10km to 0 takes about another 20+ seconds.

Of course this greatly depends on the ship for how fast it slows down, but essentially this same circumstance is for all ships. I honestly find this completely backwards. It not only allows Cruisers, Destroyers, and even Battleships to cheese the system by keeping their speed between full speed and 3/4ths speed allowing them to essentially cut their speed in half, then speed up again in a matter of a few seconds, but also creates a serious problem where your ship is like its stuck in glue, yet it wont slow down either.

It all has to do with inertia, if you're going full speed starting the initial slow down process is going to take longer, the slower you start going, the easier and quicker you slow down. Essentially the process should be in reverse of what it is. The same thing for speeding up. When you're dead stopped, getting going should take the longest (like it does already), but if you're already at half speed, getting back to full speed should be rather quick. (again like it is).

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I love when you drop to 3/4 and your ship slows down to half before accelerating again.  The screws are turning for 3/4.  Why the huge drop to 1/2?

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There is another factor here that you need to consider. A ship can cruise at 60% top speed using only 20% power (only a couple of boilers on line). Then it curves up dramatically. By the time you are up to 80% speed the ship is at 60% power and the returns diminish the closer you get to top speed. So eeking out those last couple of knots takes longer.

Edited by Prothall

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There is more drag at high speed so yes this is at least semi accurate.

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5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

There is more drag at high speed so yes this is at least semi accurate.

Agreed.  

Much of the tonnage and size difference between the South Dakota class and the Iowa class is the engine power to get that additional 6 knots of top speed.

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Actually for a boiler-fired steam ship (which are the ships modelled in WoWS) there is something called acceleration and deceleration tables.

You can't go from All Ahead Flank to All Stop instantly.  If the throttleman slammed shut the ahead throttle, he would cause the boiler to overpressurize and blow the boiler safeties.  it's a coordinated dance between the burnerman and the throttleman to change speeds.    

Going from 20 to 25 knots takes longer than going from 0 to 20 knots. as a lot more power is required to go from 20 to 25 than it does to go from 0 to 20.

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6 minutes ago, wtfovr said:

Actually for a boiler-fired steam ship (which are the ships modelled in WoWS) there is something called acceleration and deceleration tables.

There are about five exceptions to this, and if I'm not mistaken they do have some sort of unique characteristic.  It may just be the horn though.

-R

[edit] Oh, no.  It's just this silliness.  Carry on.

Spoiler

We are continuing to improve the interface in both the Port and battles. In version 0.7.9, we are adding visuals for flooding in battle, as well as an upgraded soundtrack for the occurrence. If the ship is flooded, a special icon is displayed on the ship's HP bar, with flooding effects appearing at the bottom of the screen. The model of the ship has a light alarm activated, and the effect of water being pumped out is displayed. Additionally, all ships will have steam discharges from their pipes every 7.5 seconds. This does not include diesel ships: 'Friedrich der Große, Hermelin, Admiral Graf Spee, Z-52, and Bougainville.

[/edit]

Edited by Mister_Rawr
Apparently flooding causes steam discharge? I guess that makes as much sense as stack-mounted whistles.

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11 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

Agreed.  

Much of the tonnage and size difference between the South Dakota class and the Iowa class is the engine power to get that additional 6 knots of top speed.

Not to mention 80,000 more SHP for 210,000 for the Iowa. For comparison the Dreadnought had a whopping 23,000 SHP.

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I was stationed on both steam and gas turbine powered ships. Trust me when you cut throttle on a ship moving at high speed, its initial deceleration is immediate. Dropping from 34 to 24 knots on a 10k ton cruiser takes less time to do than say.

 Stopping from 10 knots is something else entirely. A gas turbine ship has variable pitch screws and can stop... NOW. A steam ship, as represented in game, cant just reverse its screws quickly to help it stop. There are too many issues of potential damage to the prop shaft and turbines. 

 I do have to say, real ships, at least those I've been around, can stop faster than the game would have you beleive. I watched Iowa doing crashbacks. It was impressive how fast that thing would stop.

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Stopping only involves simply shutting the ahead throttle and the ship will eventually drift to a stop. 

Stopping now/yesterday, i.e. crashback involves shutting the ahead throttle and opening the astern throttle bringing the prop shaft to a stop and then reversing the shaft. The ship comes to a stop a lot sooner than if you just allowed the ship to drift to a stop.

A gas turbine ship can come to a stop immediately   (And accelerate just as quickly) it’s a violent maneuver and anything that isn’t fastened to the deck or secured (including people who haven’t grabbed onto something that is secure) gets thrown adrift and ends up in the XOs locker of gear adrift. 

at speeds below 3 knots though, you can’t control your ships heading and the ship just points to wherever it wants to depending on the winds and currents do to the ship.

 

 

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And then you have the British cruisers that don't know how to stop at all even in full reverse, but will easily propel themselves from 0 to 100% full speed like it's a drag race. 

I agree, it doesn't make any sense to me other than arbitrary balance decisions.

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7 hours ago, Airjellyfish said:

I love when you drop to 3/4 and your ship slows down to half before accelerating again.  The screws are turning for 3/4.  Why the huge drop to 1/2?

this annoys the living crap out of me.

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On 11/8/2018 at 12:15 PM, Ares1967 said:

I was stationed on both steam and gas turbine powered ships. Trust me when you cut throttle on a ship moving at high speed, its initial deceleration is immediate. Dropping from 34 to 24 knots on a 10k ton cruiser takes less time to do than say.

 Stopping from 10 knots is something else entirely. A gas turbine ship has variable pitch screws and can stop... NOW. A steam ship, as represented in game, cant just reverse its screws quickly to help it stop. There are too many issues of potential damage to the prop shaft and turbines. 

 I do have to say, real ships, at least those I've been around, can stop faster than the game would have you beleive. I watched Iowa doing crashbacks. It was impressive how fast that thing would stop.

Regardless of whether or not my understanding of ships in real life and how they stop is accurate. It's stupid either way you look at it, simply because of the bolded part. Which essentially agree's with my original post anyway.

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4 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Regardless of whether or not my understanding of ships in real life and how they stop is accurate. It's stupid either way you look at it, simply because of the bolded part. Which essentially agree's with my original post anyway.

No, you're incorrect.

Basic physics. Drag is highest at max velocity. As you slow drag decreases faster than inertia, rate of deceleration decreases. All it takes is going out in a powerboat one time to see exactly how it works.

Crashbacks are impressive to watch and very much reserved for special situations, either testing of the engineering plant or avoiding a collision. You dont do a crashback in a combat because there is too much chance of losing your ability to move at all.

 

 

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On 11/9/2018 at 10:54 PM, Ares1967 said:

No, you're incorrect.

Basic physics. Drag is highest at max velocity. As you slow drag decreases faster than inertia, rate of deceleration decreases. All it takes is going out in a powerboat one time to see exactly how it works.

Crashbacks are impressive to watch and very much reserved for special situations, either testing of the engineering plant or avoiding a collision. You dont do a crashback in a combat because there is too much chance of losing your ability to move at all.

 

 

So the fact my propellers are pulling back on the ship means nothing? got it. 

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

So the fact my propellers are pulling back on the ship means nothing? got it. 

Oh well thats a completely different story then. Of course all the information all of us with years of experience with real ships gave is wrong because we didnt take reversing the screws into account....

.. or your "feeling" on how it works is wrong and physics is right.

 

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On 11/8/2018 at 8:37 AM, wtfovr said:

Actually for a boiler-fired steam ship (which are the ships modelled in WoWS) there is something called acceleration and deceleration tables.

You can't go from All Ahead Flank to All Stop instantly.  If the throttleman slammed shut the ahead throttle, he would cause the boiler to overpressurize and blow the boiler safeties.  it's a coordinated dance between the burnerman and the throttleman to change speeds.    

Going from 20 to 25 knots takes longer than going from 0 to 20 knots. as a lot more power is required to go from 20 to 25 than it does to go from 0 to 20.

And the “King” would sh— — a brick!

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On 11/8/2018 at 11:37 AM, wtfovr said:

Actually for a boiler-fired steam ship (which are the ships modelled in WoWS) there is something called acceleration and deceleration tables.

You can't go from All Ahead Flank to All Stop instantly.  If the throttleman slammed shut the ahead throttle, he would cause the boiler to overpressurize and blow the boiler safeties.  it's a coordinated dance between the burnerman and the throttleman to change speeds.

Snipe detected!

Also, with bad throttle operation, you can create a "high water"  casualty in the boilers, resulting in loss of loop pressure and potentially getting turbine-damaging "water slugs" in the steam lines. This and flooding the condenser hot wells causing loss of vacuum. The electrical load drops when the TG's shut down. Much hate and discontent ensues.

The most dreaded engine-order "bell" was always an unexpected "All back emergency! Indicate 999 RPM for maneuvering turns!", hopefully not followed by "Sound collision alarm!" and "General Quarters!".

BT's have been known to seek and destroy bad throttlemen.

Ah, the good old days.

Edited by Xidax_Gamer
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18 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

So the fact my propellers are pulling back on the ship means nothing? got it. 

Well if you want the props to help stop then it takes even longer.   Making the shaft go from forward to reverse is a several minute evolution.

The throttleman then has to open the astern throttle to stop the propeller shafts.

Only after the propeller is stopped does the propeller start turning in the astern direction to assist in slowing the ship further.

On  Gas turbine ships the propeller always turns in the same direction.  To go forwards and backwards you change the propeller pitch.    So for them to come to a stop it’s simply a matter of going from +100 to -100 pitch and keeping the propeller rpm the same.   The ship comes violently to a complete stop from 30kts to zero in less than 1000 feet.

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8 hours ago, Xidax_Gamer said:

 

Also, with bad throttle operation, you can create a "high water"  casualty in the boilers, resulting in loss of loop pressure and potentially getting turbine-damaging "water slugs" in the steam lines. This and flooding the condenser hot wells causing loss of vacuum. The electrical load drops when the TG's shut down. Much hate and discontent ensues.

 

The same for land based generation plants.

Gotta love physics.

+1 for reminding me of my worst days on the job.

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Lol alot of this game is backwards.

Not the least of which is shell fall and the bow in [edited]....

But that why it feels like we cant stop?  I swear, slam on the breaks, turn and its like half the map later, still at 10 knts....

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This is because drag is proportional to V^2 not V. There is nothing wrong and no mystery here.

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1 hour ago, wtfovr said:

Well if you want the props to help stop then it takes even longer.   Making the shaft go from forward to reverse is a several minute evolution.

The throttleman then has to open the astern throttle to stop the propeller shafts.

Only after the propeller is stopped does the propeller start turning in the astern direction to assist in slowing the ship further.

On  Gas turbine ships the propeller always turns in the same direction.  To go forwards and backwards you change the propeller pitch.    So for them to come to a stop it’s simply a matter of going from +100 to -100 pitch and keeping the propeller rpm the same.   The ship comes violently to a complete stop from 30kts to zero in less than 1000 feet.

This is what you see in the Titanic movie at the iceberg scene, right?  

 

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