Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Craterkhan_1

Soviet Battleship theories and analysis

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

18
[LEGIT]
Members
24 posts
11,055 battles

So we know that Russian BB's are coming sometime soon, probably after the CV rework. All over the place we have been putting pieces together of this fact, but we have yet to get a solid lineup of the tree and take a guess at it's abilities, I have done some looking around and I think I may have assembled an idea of what Russian BB's may look like, as well as some theory crafting on their abilities. Some of it is guesswork too, but hey a good portion of this game is built on guesswork.

Tier 3-Imperatrista Mariya class

Probably going to be extremely powerful as a t3 BB since it has 12 12 inch guns, but considering the way the tree is laid out now and of course Russian Bias, I doubt WG will have a problem. Especially since the only other ship you could slot in there is the Andrey Pervozvanny and that thing would suck at tier 3 since it has only 4 guns. AA would be nonexistent and secondaries would have low power, so this ship in particular would rely on sheer gun power and angling and the player would have to find a way to offset the what is likely to be a godawful rudder.

Image result for Imperatritsa Mariya class shipbucket

Tier 4-Imperator Nikolai I Class

Not going to be THE Imperator, but WG can think up a name, seems to fit just fine at t4.

Tier 5-Gangut class

I expect Marat (Petropavlovsk) to be here. Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya does incredibly well here.

Tier 6-Arkhangelsk

Though the Revenge class ships were budget versions of the Queen Elizabeth class, they still pack a hefty punch with those 15 inch guns and make a prime t6. QE and Warspite do well for their tiers, so I expect Arkhangelsk (Which is the British battleship Royal Sovereign under Soviet control) to do the same. Good maneuverability and decent AA/Secondaries as well as concealment, but still light armor. Reference the QE for a general playstyle.

[ img ]

Tier 7-Borodino class

Speaking about the Izmail, we are talking 12 14 inch guns at tier 7. King George V gives us an idea of how that works out. While the Borodino is not as heavily armored, she still has a decent 26.5 knots (I am looking at you Colorado...) and her broadside firepower is only outmatched by the Lyon. Perhaps with some tweaking to her main guns accuracy and range she could become a long range sniper. A glass cannon if you will. She has secondaries, but they are the crappy secondaries still found on the t3-4-5. And unless WG decides to give this ship an AA refit, CV's will jump at the opportunity to sink this thing. It bears a striking resemblance to the Imperator, which scares me considering that it is a t4 hull with t7 level armament, but since it is low on the waterline maybe that is offset.

Image result for borodino class

Tier 8-Project 21

A study for a ship with a Nelson style layout of main guns. It seems this project would have been equipped with 16 inch guns. Nelson is an odd ship at tier 7, being both amazing in the right hands and sucky in the hands of pretty much everyone else, but I believe that is due to it's armor scheme, which will probably differ with Project 21. Increase the speed to bias levels and we should be all good for t8. Secondaries are finally in turrets, but there is that lack of AA again. And you cannot bear the guns directly aft, which means you will have to expose side to get them on target. But if Richy and JB can do it, so can this.

BBPr211936.png

Tier 9-Sovetsky Soyuz

My favorite ship of all time. Sovetsky Soyuz is equipped with 9 16 inch guns. Her armor scheme is about as protective as the Yamato's except it doesn't have the obvious "Here is my citadel" spot. Speed would have ended up being 28 knots which is not terrible. It is equal to Izumo. The best way to think of her is an Iowa with Yamato's armor. There are two versions of this ship, one without a refit and one with. The picture below is it without the refit, but the refit version has two more twin 100mm secondaries on the very stern and increased AA. Still not a secondary monster, but she can pop a DD every now and then.

 

BBSovjetskiySojuz.png

Tier 10-Project 24

The dreaded Project 24 only rumored about on the internet. This battleship has seen many versions of armament, including a 4x3 16 inch layout, a 3x3 18 inch layout, and even a 4x3 18 inch layout. Though the most likely to appear is the one with this image with a 3x3 18 inch gun layout. Speed is estimated to be 29 knots although I can't imagine the turning circle of this thing. A significant increase in AA near the superstructure and the secondary guns are dual purpose 130mm guns. Not much data on the armor scheme, but if this is an improvement over Sovetsky, then it should be about the same if not better, with more 16 inch plate covering more portions of the vessel.

Image result for project 24 battleship

 

The Russian battle-wagons are gonna end up playing an interesting role in the game. Up until t9 especially with this tree it's all lightly armored ships, meaning that these ships are going to have to be played as long range snipers like the Japanese, just taken to higher extremes. Up till t8, detection ranges would be quite low and then it would take a big turn. All Russian guns tend to have long range and good penetrating power coupled with a very high initial shell velocity. In history this was set back by the extremely short barrel lives. I imagine Project 24 especially would play out to be one of the best brawlers in the game. A heavy armor scheme that doesn't offer much weakness coupled with heavy guns and a bucketload of secondaries.

Though a huge offset, especially with the incoming CV rework, is the fact that all of these ships have comparatively weak AA. Given the size of these monsters, they will become excellent torpedo fodder and since massive detection seems to be a trait of Soviet ships, I can see the t9 and t10 having up to 18-20km detection range, meaning that pushing a strategic point is going to be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

The main concern is their ability to tank damage. WG has already introduced two Russian BB's into the game, one with a standard DCP (Imperator Nikolai) and the other with limited charges of DCP. (Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya)

I believe that Soviet battleships will receive the limited charge DCP. This works well for t3 and up, but I think that it will fall off heavily past t7 since that is where the flamebotes start to really make an appearance. Instead I would not be surprised if WG introduced a special heal to these battleships, similar to the one that the Massachusetts and the Gascogne have, which reloads in 45 seconds and they get more charges than the standard. Their way of "Tanking" damage would be to simply hit their repair party rather than their DCP, which would add a level of challenge since you would want to manage how you dealt with fires and floods. Personally I would reserve DCP to repair 3+ fires and flood and just use the heal to restore the 2 sets of fire damage. They are definitely going to become victims of HE, but that is to be expected given their powerful main guns and at t9, heavy armor. It is likely that these ships will have enormous health pools since you still have to offset the raw shell damage these ships will be receiving. The t3 4 5 and 7 have the benefit of not having much superstructure to burn, which could be an offset to the relatively thin armor. The t8 and 9 also get the benefit of catapult fighter, something that the rest of these ships do not get.

How to take them down? Focus fire, especially if you are in a CV. Almost all of these ships have sub-par AA armament and due to their massive size, will be easy to hit, especially Project 24. If WG decides to implement the limited DCP, then keep burning them down over and over again. And if they choose standard DCP, well you can treat it like any other BB. They may become victims to torpedo walls too since they are so big.

Speaking from the perspective of the t8-10 ships, one would be advised to take vigilance on their Russian BB commander as well as expert marksman to offset horrendous turret traverse times. Superintendent is mandatory since you want as many heals as you can get and fire prevention is a good way to go to mitigate some fire damage as well as basics of survivability. With the incoming CE nerf and just the general size, like the GK it is probably not worth taking Concealment skills or the mod. Target acquisition is more effective. AR is pretty much a must have since you are the biggest punching bag known to mankind and it is player discretion between priority target and preventative maintenance for a t1 (I personally use PM since it seems like Russian modules just decide to blow up on their own and given your size, you don't need a stupid indicator to tell you that everyone wants to shoot you) And for t3-7, if you decided keeping these ships is worth it. I'd imagine concealment can help you. Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya can get down to 11.4km detect which will increase following the CE nerf, but not by much, so this means you could potentially be sneaky like the British, but you sacrifice some sneak for Stalinium rounds. A well worth trade.

To sum it up, these ships strike hard and take a beating, but pay in sneakiness and AA firepower and in some cases maneuverability.

What do you guys think? I think it's time for some truly massive BB's that are like GK in size and I honestly want that Sovetsky Soyuz. And this is coming from a DD main. British battleships might have some competition and I would LOVE to see Yamato or GK vs Project 24. It would an interesting battle.

 

 

image.png

image.png

Edited by Craterkhan_1
  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
3,694 posts
4,400 battles
18 minutes ago, Craterkhan_1 said:

Though a huge offset, especially with the incoming CV rework, is the fact that all of these ships have comparatively weak AA. Given the size of these monsters, they will become excellent torpedo fodder and since massive detection seems to be a trait of Soviet ships, I can see the t9 and t10 having up to 18-20km detection range, meaning that pushing a strategic point is going to be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

I doubt this, T9-T10 is going to get the postwar AA and VMF postwar guns are the best AA in the game. P.24 is basically two Moskvas glued together, and will have the best raw AA of any T10 battleship(overall she is second only to Worcester for brute AA) and the most powerful long-range AA aura in the game, 224 dps @ 5.7km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
421
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
1,966 posts
10,955 battles

The  Imperatrista Mariya class is solidly in tier 4 range, especially if there's a fictitious post WWI upgrade applied as a top hull. 

The Russian BB line either would start at tier 4, or there would need to be an uprated version of the Andrei Pervozvanny-class battleship for tier 3 similar to what was done to the Danton to make the Turenne.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
716 posts
62 battles
24 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

The  Imperatrista Mariya class is solidly in tier 4 range, especially if there's a fictitious post WWI upgrade applied as a top hull. 

The Russian BB line either would start at tier 4, or there would need to be an uprated version of the Andrei Pervozvanny-class battleship for tier 3 similar to what was done to the Danton to make the Turenne.

 

 

Agree ImpMa is T4 at least. It’s essentially a Nikolai. Not sure how they make it different to Gangut though - these are pretty similar designs 

 

On the R-Class at T6: this makes FAR too much sense :-)

While I DO agree I am pretty sure WG will pull out some dubious napkin drawing instead 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
766 posts
4,415 battles

They are probably gonna have stats that are blown way out of proportion to anything that Russia couldve actually fielded during the times the "designs" were supposed to have been come up with. WG will probably let loose the full RU bias that seems to have been chomping at the bit lately. *shrugs*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
2,244 posts
1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

The  Imperatrista Mariya class is solidly in tier 4 range, especially if there's a fictitious post WWI upgrade applied as a top hull. 

IMO she can go as far as T6, depending on the fantasy Soviet-era modernizations that WG is bound to put on their historical WW1 BBs. Think Bayern for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,365
[WOLF9]
Members
1,499 posts
2 hours ago, Melancholic_Ghost said:

I'm going off on a limb, and gonna say that the Retribution-class Battleship is going to be the Tier 10 Soviet Battleship.

Nah, that's just a premium cruiser by Russian standards. The tier ten will be the Death Star, but with upgrades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
716 posts
62 battles
1 hour ago, Wolcott said:

IMO she can go as far as T6, depending on the fantasy Soviet-era modernizations that WG is bound to put on their historical WW1 BBs. Think Bayern for example.

How is this ship T6 material? Even with cruise missiles she is T4/5 at  best and even if WG doesn’t model her drawbacks....

Agree that we are going to see vastly inflated values concerning the armor and likely no real drawbacks on the guns such as low reload and bad dispersion. Likely they get standard RoF and excellent ballistics and fine dispersion 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,437
[WOLF3]
Members
19,699 posts
18,076 battles
3 hours ago, Aetreus said:

I doubt this, T9-T10 is going to get the postwar AA and VMF postwar guns are the best AA in the game. P.24 is basically two Moskvas glued together, and will have the best raw AA of any T10 battleship(overall she is second only to Worcester for brute AA) and the most powerful long-range AA aura in the game, 224 dps @ 5.7km.

Sekrit Russian Dokuments!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
421
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
1,966 posts
10,955 battles
7 hours ago, Wolcott said:

IMO she can go as far as T6, depending on the fantasy Soviet-era modernizations that WG is bound to put on their historical WW1 BBs. Think Bayern for example.

I was thinking along the lines of adding some light and heavy aa guns to the ship, and maybe a light superstructure face lift. Not enough aa to be really effective, but enough to make it look like the ships were still in service in the early 30's. The Myogi doesn't seem to have gone over well in closed beta judging by the "C" hull that it has now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
131
[DOW]
Members
672 posts
3,927 battles

I think the most important decision should be NOT to configure Russian battleships like the British battleships: underwater citadels and very high damage HEs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
3,694 posts
4,400 battles
16 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Sekrit Russian Dokuments!

I mean they're not that secret? BL-109A is basically SM-2-1, which had the same level of DPS before certain individuals freaked out about it and got it nerfed. The quad 45mm and 25mm mounts are wholly unexceptional if reasonably good guns. And all of this stuff is basically historical, all these guns saw service on USSR ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50
[UTWE]
Members
244 posts
3,382 battles

Why add in ships of Navies that actually HAD ships like RN CV's, Italian CL's and French DD's nah lets go make a full paper line for the Russians because Russian bias.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
172 posts
855 battles
On 11/7/2018 at 2:41 AM, Doombeagle said:

Nah, that's just a premium cruiser by Russian standards. The tier ten will be the Death Star, but with upgrades.

Why not go the extra mile, and make it the Blackstone Fortress?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×