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Sumseaman

Big CV fan but unlimited aircraft might be too much....

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As said I'm quite a fan of CVs in the game and are looking forward to the rework though I think the inclusion of unlimited aircraft is going to upset people and not deter careless strikes. Hangar capacity likely should be a factor as it adds a flavour to certain ships and gives greater reward to those that make shoot downs. Any of those who have tried the testing agree?

Edited by Sumwunskum
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1 minute ago, Gen_Saris said:

Every other ship has unlimited ammo. 

But not unlimited reach, the OP has a point.

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8 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

Every other ship has unlimited ammo. 

Very good point...hope others see it that way too. I don't think limited aircraft was an issue though. Seems as this might be included as a balance trade off for having only one squadron active at any given time? Not sure...

Edited by Sumwunskum

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11 minutes ago, Sumwunskum said:

Very good point...hope others see it that way too. I don't think limited aircraft was an issue though. Seems as this might be included as a balance trade off for having only one squadron active at any given time? Not sure...

After playing the test server of the CV rework the trade off for what CVs are getting now compared to the rework unlimited planes is fair, there losing cross dropping, more then one squad in the air at a time, fighter planes/skill no longer control who will have air control of the air and the balance problem with IJN and USA CV.

On top of that the aiming system is a major change and you have to time it right or you will miss or not drop at all and lose planes in the process, CV are giving up a lot and only having one squad in the air at at time unlimited planes is fair.

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28 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

Every other ship has unlimited ammo. 

Other ships can't zip across the map at several hundreds knots, spotting ships, dropping bombs, firing rockets, and undodgeable torpedo spreads all while their ship is not even at risk.

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2 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Other ships can't zip across the map at several hundreds knots, spotting ships, dropping bombs, firing rockets, and undodgeable torpedo spreads all while their ship is not even at risk.

I would like to know on the test of the rework where you could do all that the speed boost last only so long otherwise the speed is around 150knots if i remember and out of all those jobs you listed you can only do one at a time if your TB are out that's all you can use till you send them back, finished last drop or all planes of that squad is shot down, spotting will come from what ever you spot while doing strikes. Its not like now where you can send a spare DB squad to spot while the rest of your squads do damage.

A CV player ship is always at risk every time we lose planes it's not like CV have main guns to shot if a ship gets close to it so we only really have planes and if are planes are getting shot down then there is not much the CV can do. 

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If you carelessly throw your aircraft away, the reload time increases and balances the fact you won't run out making it a moot point.

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The unlimited aircraft is important for closing the skill gap some.

The good players won't have an issue either way, they weren't getting deplaned in the first place.

The not so skilled players would otherwise simply be deplaned with limited aircraft, without it, they can continue to contribute in whatever way they can till someone sinks them.

If the limits on aircraft numbers are harsh enough to make the skilled players notice, the less skilled players might as well pack it up.

 

Also, unlimited airplanes make it easier to balance Royal Navy CV's, which historically had small hangers.With the system that we tested a couple weeks back, all WG has to really balance is the individual flights of aircraft for the results they want against surface ships. CV aircraft don't really interact with each other and the CV's themselves don't really matter other than the basic ship stats

 

4 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Other ships can't zip across the map at several hundreds knots, spotting ships, dropping bombs, firing rockets, and undodgeable torpedo spreads all while their ship is not even at risk.

.The bombs, much like the USN ones on live today, frequently will not hit even if aimed properly (bombs landing way outside the drop circle just to get over the side of the ship) , the rockets seem to do very little (22 hits on a Farragut might take it to half health), and the torps are very dodgeable as we now have to drop them from much further back (we will be doing manual drops, at close to automatic drop distances, from one direction, with less torps.)

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16 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

If you carelessly throw your aircraft away, the reload time increases and balances the fact you won't run out making it a moot point.

Ah thanks. Yes well I agree then that this balances out. However yes I still see posts coming out that CV players have few risks. It's not that I don't understand the concept of carrier warfare just that player psychology doesn't seem to agree with no risk for even some minor gain. Not mine but still for overall enjoyability for all.

Edited by Sumwunskum

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57 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

But not unlimited reach, the OP has a point.

It's not unlimited reach, you can't shoot down incoming shells and torpedos

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One of the reasons why WG went with unlimited hangar capacity was to lessen the divide between the good and bad CV drivers.  And one of the big gripes people have on these boards, whether they are CV players or not, is that big divide.  The bad ones in the current system get easily "Deplaned" while the better CV player just kept on going with zero hindrance to his efforts.

2 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

It's not unlimited reach, you can't shoot down incoming shells and torpedos

There's also a magical button to make all those planes get shot down:  Defensive Fire!

Not to mention making the drop dispersion much wider when it's active.

There is no consumable to make someone's shells / torps disappear out of thin air and force their attacks to miss wide with a press of the button.

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21 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There is no consumable to make someone's shells / torps disappear out of thin air and force their attacks to miss wide with a press of the button.

 

There is if you're in a certain destroyer, you press the button and NYROOOOM, nothing can hit you~!

When sailing Terrible, all you see is this, play it right and NOTHING can hit you

800_Plaid.gif

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Well, with limited planes (though almost never in practice) carriers currently do as much damage as battleships, usually shoot down more planes than the rest of the team combined and I'm pretty confident do more spotting than 3-4 destroyers.

While I understand that getting lumbered with the moron who manages to get deplaned because 'why are the other planes moving around - what is strafe?' is a bad thing, improving the lot of carriers overall seems questionable...

 

Saying 'oh carriers can be stopped' and 'oh but carriers can do XYZ' merely reinforces how out of the ordinary and intrinsically imbalanced they are.

 

If carriers get infinite planes, can I get my AA repaired and re-crewed?

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As someone that played the rework - I was unimpressed by it as a whole, even the parts that sounded interesting - like unlimited planes.

 

While I am for "unlimited" planes - to avoid the current deplanning issues, I don't like the way they implemented it. The ships hanger should matter. The ship should start with whichever amount of planes of the type, as now, but that's all you get to start till you hit zero planes of that type, then a decent length timer starts when you hit zero. Basically akin to "throw them away like an idiot once, you can get away with it because people make mistakes, run out of those TB's though, your basically waiting on the supply ship to show up". There should still be SOME real level of resource management. Or at least something more then a brainless cycle of looping about in attack aircraft that is boring as sin.

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11 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

One of the reasons why WG went with unlimited hangar capacity was to lessen the divide between the good and bad CV drivers. 

Remedied by the elimination of fighters and their strafe ability.

Quote

And one of the big gripes people have on these boards, whether they are CV players or not, is that big divide.  The bad ones in the current system get easily "Deplaned" while the better CV player just kept on going with zero hindrance to his efforts.

Deplaning has as much if not more to do with how AA currently works than a player being bad

Quote

There's also a magical button to make all those planes get shot down:  Defensive Fire!

DFAA hardly functions as a deletion button unless the cv is tiers lower. Most ships capable of mountind dfaa hardly shoot down planes with it on otherwise.

Quote

Not to mention making the drop dispersion much wider when it's active.

Given the distance, its understood

Quote

There is no consumable to make someone's shells / torps disappear out of thin air and force their attacks to miss wide with a press of the button.

A button missing on most ships and those carrying it hardly benefit as much unless they are American and specced into aa to some extent.

On the other hand a cv can engage you 40km away now and with changes; and or discover you at the same time. Even with battleships, rarely range exceeds 20km; and when they do, those shells dont alter trajectory or spot for you and the whole team.

Airplanes are Pinnaces: portable ships of war with wings for sails. The anything the rework is doing is cutting down the cv driver from a comnander of fleets to a commander of ships.

Edited by Crokodone

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1 hour ago, Sumwunskum said:

As said I'm quite a fan of CVs in the game and are looking forward to the rework though I think the inclusion of unlimited aircraft is going to upset people and not deter careless strikes. Hangar capacity likely should be a factor as it adds a flavour to certain ships and gives greater reward to those that make shoot downs. Any of those who have tried the testing agree?

You are looking at this from the current CV systems view. In the new system you will only have one squadron active at any one time and there is a cool down while lost planes are replaced.

 

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23 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

It's not unlimited reach, you can't shoot down incoming shells and torpedos

technically you can with modern warships. but none of that high tech stuff is in the game.:fish_book: well, technically the lazers were in space mode.....you know what. NVM......

 

To me giving them unlimited planes risks allowing them to make careless attacks and have the "its OK if i lose these I got plenty more" mentality. which is a bad for development. There needs to be a hanger limit just like the current format!:fish_aqua:for balance reasons!

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2 minutes ago, BladedPheonix said:

 

 

They'll be punished for it by poor performance, that is the best teacher you can hope for

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16 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

As someone that played the rework - I was unimpressed by it as a whole, even the parts that sounded interesting - like unlimited planes.

 

While I am for "unlimited" planes - to avoid the current deplanning issues, I don't like the way they implemented it. The ships hanger should matter. The ship should start with whichever amount of planes of the type, as now, but that's all you get to start till you hit zero planes of that type, then a decent length timer starts when you hit zero. Basically akin to "throw them away like an idiot once, you can get away with it because people make mistakes, run out of those TB's though, your basically waiting on the supply ship to show up". There should still be SOME real level of resource management. Or at least something more then a brainless cycle of looping about in attack aircraft that is boring as sin.

The current iteration on the test server, has the planes respawning faster than it would be on live, because they want to get carriers back into the action faster, to collect as much data as possible.  The current iteration of the test is not focusing on balance at all, that comes later.

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4 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

They'll be punished for it by poor performance, that is the best teacher you can hope for

sorta like squires latest WOWS video then?:Smile_veryhappy:

 

skip to 9:19 for the score!:cap_look:

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gen_Saris said:

Every other ship has unlimited ammo. 

Planes should be viewed, not as "ammo", but as the resource the CV has to effectively manage to deal damage, much in the same way every other ship has to manage their health.

CVs have unlimited ammo already, as long as they dont get all their planes killed, just like how any other surface ship has unlimited ammo, but has to find a way to manage out going dmg vs incoming damage, to stay alive while still affecting the battle.  Unlimited planes is literally the same thing as giving a BB unlimited health.  If a BB had unlimited health, he wouldnt care if he only got 1 hit a game, he would have no fear of death, and every point of damage is a win.  A bad player in an unlimited health BB would [edited] face, a good player would be op as all hell, just carelessly running every one down.  An unlimited plane CV will be no different, with no fear of death, who cares how powerful your AA is, kill 1 plane, kill 100 planes, it doesnt matter. 

You might say, sink the carrier, but thats on the opposite corner of the board somewhere and to think your getting to that until the end of the game is a joke, the CV itself is no threat.  The planes are its damage, its resource you must manage in such a way as to not run out of it, while affecting a match.  Running out of planes for a CV is the same as running out of health on a surface ship.

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2 hours ago, BladedPheonix said:

technically you can with modern warships. but none of that high tech stuff is in the game.:fish_book: well, technically the lazers were in space mode.....you know what. NVM......

 

To me giving them unlimited planes risks allowing them to make careless attacks and have the "its OK if i lose these I got plenty more" mentality. which is a bad for development. There needs to be a hanger limit just like the current format!:fish_aqua:for balance reasons!

They can't get the balance right with the current format the 2 lines are unbalanced big time, if a CV player wants to make careless attacks that's there choice it happens now with CVs someone will send there planes over a AA heavy ship. CVs are giving up a lot from the current format to the rework if CV could have more then 1 squad out then yer i can see the reason for not having unlimited planes but only being able to send 1 squad out at a time and the time it takes to get to where you need to, do all your strikes and launch another plane it's not a 1 min turn around to do all that.

 

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18 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

You might say, sink the carrier, but thats on the opposite corner of the board somewhere and to think your getting to that until the end of the game is a joke, the CV itself is no threat.  The planes are its damage, its resource you must manage in such a way as to not run out of it, while affecting a match.  Running out of planes for a CV is the same as running out of health on a surface ship.

But you look at the CV now and then the one's in the rework there is a lot of major changes i.e CV snipe now if a player try's for a CV snipe you have fighters to fend them off with the rework you don't and to control your CV you have to have no planes in the air which means calling them back to gain control of your ship to defend yourself. In the rework your planes got shot down very easy and doing a strike on a target is harder then it is now you have to be spot on with your timing of the drop.

Next time the test is open to test the CV rework someone needs to time the turn around of a squad from launch, time to target, strike and stop when you have no planes or they all are heading back and you can send out another squad. Least that way we can get a idea on how long it takes and how big the hanger size is, plus when the rework comes out each time you lose a squad it takes longer for the new one to be ready. So it might seem like they unlimited planes but the truth is there is only so many you can launch a match and if people waste the squad going into a heavy AA bubble then the next squad will take longer. 

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2 hours ago, Chobittsu said:

They'll be punished for it by poor performance, that is the best teacher you can hope for

That hasn't worked for any other ship type in this game to date.

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