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SJ_Sailer

A Question about "Balance" and "Balancing"

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A Question about "Balance":

Everyone knows WG works very hard to "Balance" all ships, we hear it all the time.  But my question is, what is "Balance" per se?

Is it each ship being equal in some way to other ships?  Each one has plus and minus that add up to 0 in the final equation?  Given equal skill the odds should be a tie in battle?

Or is "Balance" what Vegas does on bets.  Two teams may have equal chance to win but if everyone bets on Dallas then the odds makers increase the odds on Detroit so the betting is "Balanced".

So back to my question, is "Balance" even play for all ships or is "Balance" giving low played ships a buff (destroyers) and highly played ships (battleships) a nerf so equal amounts of ship types show up in battle?

If EVERYONE wants to play CV and Submarines, do they get nerfed and if NO ONE want to play Cruisers or Destroyers do they get buffed in order to attract players?

Just an honest question, love to hear your comments.

 

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I think, in this case, balance means that no ship is overpowered for its tier. That's about it. 

You just can't balance all the pros and cons of a hundred or so ships to make them somehow equal. 1 on 1 a Shima should destroy any battleship, but a Shima isn't better than a Yamato. It isn't worse. Two completely different animals. So that isn't a way to be balanced. 

How do you balance a Wooster with a Mino? Does HE = smoke plus torps? Can't even balance within classes. 

And, we're not playing duels anyway. We play team games with 6 to 12 on each side. 

Basically, what WG doesn't want is a ship that is so powerful that sub-40% win rate players are consistently getting 90% win rates, but only in that ship. Like if WG introduced a ship that had concealment of 5km, with 10 3 second reload main guns that did 4500 damage for HE and 8500 for AP and it had 12 km 72 knot torps and radar and smoke... That would be unbalanced. A ship that powerful means that anyone not playing is doomed. Suddenly all the games become that ship and nothing else. 

That is what they mean by balance. 

And honestly, I think that they get it wrong a fair number of times. The great IJN destroyer nerf comes to mind. 

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Agreed, but if WG sees that all the battleship player are now switching to cruisers and it is hard to get more than one battleship into a game, will WG start to Buff the battleships (as a class as a whole - tweak damage or accuracy for all BB) in order to get more battleship players.

Sorry did not mean tweaking each individual ship, was thinking bigger picture.

Actually what I was thinking was when CV's come out new, if everyone flocks to them and there are high wait time to get a CV into battle due to limit of 2 or 3 per game, will WG nerf CV's to reduce demand? 

Free Market Dynamics and all.

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Well, whenever a new line comes out, that's half of what you see in queue and the rest are players getting ships to kill the new line. 

For a while, a few months ago, it was nearly impossible to have a match without 5 destroyers on a side. I'm not sure what happened, but they didn't do a big global nerf or buff of anything. 

I still think that the biggest thing that they did (and this was several years ago now) was the IJN DD nerf, which was basically a nerf to torps and torp spotting distances rather than to the ships themselves. 

The only other thing that really hurt an entire class at once was when they removed invis-firing. That was fun if you were the DD, but impossible to deal with from the other side, which was why they changed the spotting mechanics. Again, not a change to ships, but to the mechanics of the game. 

When the CVs come out, I suspect that you'll see a lot more American cruisers and battleships in play, purely because of their better AA. But then things will calm down and go back to normal in a couple of weeks. 

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8 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Agreed, but if WG sees that all the battleship player are now switching to cruisers and it is hard to get more than one battleship into a game, will WG start to Buff the battleships (as a class as a whole - tweak damage or accuracy for all BB) in order to get more battleship players.

Sorry did not mean tweaking each individual ship, was thinking bigger picture.

Actually what I was thinking was when CV's come out new, if everyone flocks to them and there are high wait time to get a CV into battle due to limit of 2 or 3 per game, will WG nerf CV's to reduce demand? 

Free Market Dynamics and all.

WG uses subjective balance based on its goals.  An example, the Groz was a perfectly serviceable DD and WG buffed it, gave it a heal and other buffs.  There was no statistical reason to justify any buff.  I believe the reason was to try and wean people off playing the Shima by offering another strong DD at T10. 

Something a bit more controversial would be the nerfs to DDs.  This series of nerfs raised the skill floor for DDs in an attempt to lower the population.  The same thing is happening to BBs now.  IFHE, DWT, torp reload booster, AP bombs, all added to incrementally reduce the survivability of BBs in the hopes of reducing population.  

As a whole I think balance works okay, and I don't mean to suggest any malice to WG's balance goals.  The main take away should be "balance" isn't always applicable in the term "game balance".

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Depends on who you ask.

 

WG balances on a number of factors including performance such as win rate, avg damage, k/d etc. They also balance based on the performance of the ship so  they account for the highs and the lows of the performance. They also balance for population so you will lines that are less popular (like soviet DDs) perform decent and get buffs while other lines that are played a lot more languish.

People on the forum generally use whatever factor meshes with their bias the most and disregard anything else. Since balance discussions here tend to be less about balance and more about making the preferred class of the poster the "king of the seas" more or less and insulting anyone who disagrees.

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