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Gunga_Dinner

Electronic Counter Measures

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A thought occurred to me today as I was reading a posting here asking about improvements to certain ships.  Someone mentioned fake torpedoes and that got the ol' gears grinding in my thick skull.  I also want to preface this by saying I don't mind radar and think it has a place in the game and I don't want to get rid of it or even change it.  My idea deals with ways to counter radar other then the simple 'get out of range' that is our sole option now.  I also believe that even with counter measures, the radar should provide at some effective information to the team using it, perhaps for a shorter duration or not as exact.

There could always be radar jammers that have half the duration of the Radar or perhaps a longer cool down period or something that would still allow the radar to work for a shorter period or less accurately.  You could make it it so that the radar does see the ship, but it would only show on the map like a ship that is out of your detection range, (The hollow icons that can't be targeted).  You could even tailor jammers to specific ships, say IJN cruisers only being able to jam USN radar, leaving the Russian and German radars unaffected.  There is a lot you could do with these.

There could be chaff mortars on select ships that disperse large clouds of chaff that confuse both sides radars if in detection range.  The cloud would last for a shorter period than the radar does.

But the REAL idea I had, the thought that made me sit up and take notice, was decoys!  This wouldn't necessarily only be a Radar counter measure, but could be used at any time.  The idea is that certain ships, cruisers and battleships, maybe only certain countries, could send out or deploy a decoy that mimics a ship type, mostly destroyers I would think, to distract and/or confuse the enemy.  The decoy would travel in a straight line for a fixed distance and/or last a fixed amount of time, but also have a small health pool so the could be destroyed by red forces.

I am sure you clever cogs out there could come up with better restrictions on their employment and their capabilities, but I feel there is real merit in at least taking a look at this.

I look forward to your thoughts and opinions on the matter.  Cheers!

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ECM was in its infancy in WWII and non-existent before that. The British used Window aka Chaff to jam German radar of the towns they were bombing. I just don't see it adding anything positive to the game.

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The only type of decoy in the game’s timeframe I can think of are Q ships, which in no way could work against radar.

The closest thing I can think of as a radar conuntermeasure is chaff, which would not prevent detection or locking on but would increase dispersion.

Edited by CO_Valle

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1 minute ago, CO_Valle said:

which would not prevent detection or locking on but would increase dispersion.

i think it should make the target flash in and out like it did during thunderstorms in one of the operations

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create a countermeasure where everytime a cruiser use radar,he get instantly destroyed.

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Counter-radar would be interesting.

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

ECM was in its infancy in WWII and non-existent before that. The British used Window aka Chaff to jam German radar of the towns they were bombing. I just don't see it adding anything positive to the game.

Radar was in its infancy in WWII, lol, and was definitely line of sight then.  Radar jamming was very much done during WWII, especially by the USN in the pacific and mounted on landing craft on up through the carriers.  The IJN had a more difficult time of it, but still knew it was possible and were aware the USN were using jammers against them.  I wont even get into the airborne stuff.  ECM as a whole started prior to radar with jamming and spoofing radio and telegraph transmissions prior to WWI, yes, that is WWI, not WWII.  There was sonar ECM as well.

Decoys have been used in naval battles for as long as there have been naval battles and the idea of decoys really got me thinking.  Not that the decoy would hide anything or any ship, but just add extra ships/targets on the red teams map to confuse the situation and perhaps give a ship that is being lit up by radar and chance to slip away.  A decoy could also be used to draw fire or distract fire by giving the shooting ship two targets and having to pick one say a BB being pelted by a hidden Cruiser or DD deploys a decoy and there is a 50/50 chance the hidden ship will shoot at the decoy instead of the BB.

I think there is something there, obviously not a finished idea, but something to consider.

Thank you for your thoughts and response!

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19 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

create a countermeasure where everytime a cruiser use radar,he get instantly destroyed.

I think people are trying hard enough to do exactly that as it is!

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46 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Radar was in its infancy in WWII, lol, and was definitely line of sight then.  Radar jamming was very much done during WWII, especially by the USN in the pacific and mounted on landing craft on up through the carriers.  The IJN had a more difficult time of it, but still knew it was possible and were aware the USN were using jammers against them.  I wont even get into the airborne stuff.  ECM as a whole started prior to radar with jamming and spoofing radio and telegraph transmissions prior to WWI, yes, that is WWI, not WWII.  There was sonar ECM as well.

Decoys have been used in naval battles for as long as there have been naval battles and the idea of decoys really got me thinking.  Not that the decoy would hide anything or any ship, but just add extra ships/targets on the red teams map to confuse the situation and perhaps give a ship that is being lit up by radar and chance to slip away.  A decoy could also be used to draw fire or distract fire by giving the shooting ship two targets and having to pick one say a BB being pelted by a hidden Cruiser or DD deploys a decoy and there is a 50/50 chance the hidden ship will shoot at the decoy instead of the BB.

I think there is something there, obviously not a finished idea, but something to consider.

Thank you for your thoughts and response!

I just feel that the extremly limited rage of radar already factors in atmospheric factors which were a huge factor in WWII radar and any possible jamming.

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You can't as it is a consumable and a player has to pay for it. You can't have a consumable that counteracts another completely and costs the player credits or dubloons. Radar does not completely counter smoke, the smoke is still there after radar ends or the radar ship moves out of range of smoke.

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You whiners are lucky that radar isn't "real" by being on 24/7 and having far superior range, as well as being handed out like candy on some navies.

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10 hours ago, bohica_2017 said:

You can't as it is a consumable and a player has to pay for it. You can't have a consumable that counteracts another completely and costs the player credits or dubloons. Radar does not completely counter smoke, the smoke is still there after radar ends or the radar ship moves out of range of smoke.

 

10 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You whiners are lucky that radar isn't "real" by being on 24/7 and having far superior range, as well as being handed out like candy on some navies.

Speed boost is a consumable that is counteracted by a damaged propulsion unit.  Depending on the smoke generator you have, one could argue the possibility that Radar does completely negate it.  Aside from that, what I am thinking of wouldn't completely negate Radar, just perhaps interrupt it for a few moments, 10 seconds or so, just enough to confuse things or distract the red forces, especially if the radar is going to continue to be magic and see through land.

"Real" radar doesn't see through land and reveals the radar source as much as the targets it finds.  "Real" radar is detected before the "Real" radar detects a target.  So much so, that many WWII radar installations shut down as soon as enemy forces were detected closing on them.  My intent was not to whine, but to explore new ideas that add new twists and strategies to the game.  Besides the 'real' argument is a very poor one to use in this game given all the unrealities that are in it just to make it playable.  Nothing in the game is real other than the name and look of the ships.

I am not suggesting that Radar be taken away, I don't mind radar the way it is in game, it is simply another facet of gameplay that has to be dealt with.  I am not against radar.  It just seems to be one of the few 'absolute' states in the game.  If you turn radar on and someone is in range, you are going to see them 100% of the time for as long as the radar lasts and be able to target them.  I can't think of anything else in game that is that certain and absolute.

The thought popped into my head last night and I felt, still feel, that there is the start of something here that could add to game so I posted it here.  I also thought it might be interesting to game play to introduce something that would make us Captains think.  All of us.

Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate the thoughts and dialogue!

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