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guns_at_last_light

Is it worth grinding past the Bismarck?

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I've been occasionally hopping back into the German BBs to spice things up, and am wondering whether this is even worth it. Having played through several Tier 8 ships, I understand that you have to take things with a grain of salt because of Tier 8 MM; however, I really am not enjoying the Bismarck as much as I want. It's fun to watch the secondaries fire off like a drunk person shooting a Nerf gun, but the little damage they do does not make up for the sad main batteries. I've read that the FDG is even worse, though people said that about the Izumo and I don't hate that ship.

Will the penetration changes being tested out make this an even more unpleasant grind? Is the GK worth it?

 

Edited by guns_at_last_light

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2 minutes ago, guns_at_last_light said:

 the Izumo and I don't hate that ship.

seek help. i always say that gneisenau is the gem of the german line,it have EVERYTHING,good armor,ok guns,TORPEDO,great AA,fast,good secondaries,it's not OP because it lacks smoke.

Edited by Cruxdei
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4 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

seek help. i always say that gneisenau is the gem of the german line,it have EVERYTHING,good armor,ok guns,TORPEDO,great AA,fast,good secondaries,it's not OP because it lacks smoke.

What I want to know is whether Tier 9 is any better. Tier 8 has the MM problem (I've been the only Tier 8 in the two time I played the Bismarck today). Is the FDG as bad as they say? I don't want to waste credits on a ship that stinks if I can avoid it.

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The entire German BB line was outstanding.  I'm not sure who these clowns are that are leading you to think the FDG is anything other than another outstanding German BB.

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7 minutes ago, guns_at_last_light said:

What I want to know is whether Tier 9 is any better. Tier 8 has the MM problem (I've been the only Tier 8 in the two time I played the Bismarck today). Is the FDG as bad as they say? I don't want to waste credits on a ship that stinks if I can avoid it.

i don't have the FDg since they destroyed bismarck's fun(the secondaries were more powerful),but FDG always looked like the dumber big brother of bismarck. FDg is one of the few tier9 ships that is not that bad.

to tell the truth,the 3 tier9 BBs i fear the most is:

a well played iowa

alsace

a FDG at brawling range.

people don't get angry grinding FDG,grober kurfurst is still a good ship,even if the german line sucks at long range(except Prinz eitel friedrich).

nothing from the german line can top gneisenau/scharnhorst though.they are  more fun and the most versatile battleships i ever sailed.

 

Edited by Cruxdei
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I intended at some point to grind all the way up the German battleship line, but then I gradually realized that high tier battleship play is very displeasing. The slow nature of battleships (even if they're faster at the high tiers) combines with the slow nature of high tier play, and the result is a very boring experience. High tier cruiser play is more enjoyable, but still far from desirable. Tiers 5-7 are where the fun is for me.

Edited by Hiroe
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16 minutes ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

The entire German BB line was outstanding.  I'm not sure who these clowns are that are leading you to think the FDG is anything other than another outstanding German BB.

As usual, the pope speaks the truth. There wasn't a single KM BB that I didn't love and the FDG is a very fun ship to play. 

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3 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

The entire German BB line was outstanding.  I'm not sure who these clowns are that are leading you to think the FDG is anything other than another outstanding German BB.

Most folks want to charge in at the start of the battle and pound away with secondaries.

Might get lucky once in a while at lower tiers but at T8 and up you will get punished for pushing too early and without support.

Time it just right and FDG and GK will make the reds pay badly, as you chew up their hit points.

I've seen lots of folks say they sold their FDG as soon as they got the GK, kept mine and still play it from time to time.

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49 minutes ago, guns_at_last_light said:

I've been occasionally hopping back into the German BBs to spice things up, and am wondering whether this is even worth it. Having played through several Tier 8 ships, I understand that you have to take things with a grain of salt because of Tier 8 MM; however, I really am not enjoying the Bismarck as much as I want. It's fun to watch the secondaries fire off like a drunk person shooting a Nerf gun, but the little damage they do does not make up for the sad main batteries. I've read that the FDG is even worse, though people said that about the Izumo and I don't hate that ship.

Will the penetration changes being tested out make this an even more unpleasant grind? Is the GF worth it?

 

The Gneisenau is the best of the line I think.

Still, the Bismarck is solid and the FdG isn’t a trashbote but it is rough because everything can farm 1/3 pens off you for solid damage. Sure, getting citted is rare, but losing 10-15k from normal pens still hurts.

The guns are still wonky - there is debate whether the smaller or heavier guns are better, but eventually I opted for the faster firing guns and prioritised cruisers cos if you’re going to miss so much you might as well have a faster reload.  

I had way more fun at close range in the Alsace than in the FdG. And I did the FdG soon after it was released; the power creep since would make it even less fun. 

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Personally I found the Bismarck to be frustrating, but I am enjoying the Freddy and doing better than I was in Bisko. She is a little thiccer than Bismarck with a corresponding drop in agility, but I am okay with that since I can actually make her guns do some damage. Bisko was the epitome of miss/bounce/overpen pick one for me. I think secondaries are a trap on both ships; I personally don't buff them more than with just AFT. You can argue that you need a full secondary build to really make them shine, but it's dangerous to consistently get close enough to use them, and on top of that you are typically sacrificing other tank skills.

I would agree with some of the above that the Gneisnau was my favorite so far though.

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FDG is a worse Bismarck. You get hilariously inaccurate bigger guns for which you trade survivability, armour, speed, range, turret angles, concealment, maneuverability. If you played the German BB line to this point you already know what it's like to feel like your guns might as well not have fired in the last 5 minutes for they haven't done much at all, so the level of frustration you have with this ship won't be new to you. GK lets you take your masochism to new heights with more of that on top of an increased HP pool so you can survive being a flaming pinata for longer, but at least the guns are not as terribly inconsistent as they are on the FDG so you might sometimes feel like you're doing almost as much as you would if you just played Montana instead.

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At the least, GK is worth the grind. Every game except my last (Ocean with Red Harugumos, Worchesters, and HIVs) has been fun and its always fun to finally get into a flank cap and just watch the Reds head for cover and start ignoring the other ships.

Guns are what you expect: great 5-15km.

Secondaries are what you hoped for whether you built for them or didn’t but knew what that meant.

Armor and angles work fine and let you focus on killing firebreathers which means you also helping your DDs usually.

Just fun and working on getting a 19 pointer back on her since I moved it and the other 19er to my Hindy and Z52 for last ranked.

Don’t let the Bismarck stop you, I didn’t enjoy it after the first 5 game firework fun factory fixated on floundering forward unFriendlies myself, either.

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I have the FDG and it's terrible. Cant hit a %$^%& thing if your life depended on it ....with ether type of guns. The only thing that keeps me grinding it (slowly) is the GK . Usually when the PT comes up I take GK out for a spin and it gives me hope , for I have no hope with the FDG..

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6 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

The entire German BB line was outstanding.  I'm not sure who these clowns are that are leading you to think the FDG is anything other than another outstanding German BB.

It’s less the ships, and more finding little of the ‘fun’ many speak of playing higher tier games.

Actually liked Gnie more than Scharn; which never seemed to live up to its reputation.

Bisko has been dull as hell, never accomplishing much no matter how I tried  to play it; so much so it gave me little motivation for continuing on to the last two ships.

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I haven't unlocked the Fat Freddie yet.  Not in a rush to do so.  As others have said, I love the Gneis.  Even though I have the Biscuit, I still play Gneis instead.  Gneis and the Shiny Horse are far more enjoyable to play than the Biscuit.  So it mostly rusts in port nowadays.  

So I'm not a good data point for you.  Especially since I haven't been playing much BB lately.  Though I am interested in this thread as I may decide to go back to grinding BB's again.  

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47 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

It’s less the ships, and more finding little of the ‘fun’ many speak of playing higher tier games.

Actually liked Gnie more than Scharn; which never seemed to live up to its reputation.

Bisko has been dull as hell, never accomplishing much no matter how I tried  to play it; so much so it gave me little motivation for continuing on to the last two ships.

  This^^^.

  I got so tired of it,  the ship got put aside and the rest of the line written off.

Much more fun to play Alabama, Missou/Iowa, Alsace, or Monty.  (I haven't gotten around to grinding my IJN's that far yet- they're stuck in the unfun tier 6 mm)

  To be fair, the Brits are just as boring, just for different reasons.  Either HE "spamming"  (can you even call it spamming with a 30 sec reload? lol), or AP so mediochre it's every bit as frustrating as the German inaccuracy.   Also like the Germans, you eat ridiculous amounts of damage to offset the "does it even HAVE a citadel??"   They're more memes- characatures- of ships than anything else.

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I got through Bismarck without even noticing it. Fabulous ship that can actually compete against T10s, and is a blast when you get under 10 km.

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I researched the Freddy just to give Bismarck elite status. The ship itself was (to me) unimpressive compared to Bismarck.

For what it's worth, I don't recommend investing any effort in battleships any more.

With the new damage mechanic, CV rework, and these ridiculous "submarines" coming our way eventually. I'm focusing on cruisers now, because battleships will soon be no more than big, fat, helpless XP pinatas.

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5 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

FDG is a worse Bismarck. You get hilariously inaccurate bigger guns for which you trade survivability, armour, speed, range, turret angles, concealment, maneuverability. If you played the German BB line to this point you already know what it's like to feel like your guns might as well not have fired in the last 5 minutes for they haven't done much at all, so the level of frustration you have with this ship won't be new to you. GK lets you take your masochism to new heights with more of that on top of an increased HP pool so you can survive being a flaming pinata for longer, but at least the guns are not as terribly inconsistent as they are on the FDG so you might sometimes feel like you're doing almost as much as you would if you just played Montana instead.

German BBs really shine T6-8, with proper build and well-timed aggression. Bayvern, as I recall, has decent secondaries, but her greatest team asset is how vicious her AA is if specced for it.

Gnei (as I call the T7) is the most well-rounded. Miserable if play her as a sniper, but she can spec secondaries or AA (last I checked, her full AA build reaches 7.2km and capable of dropping T9 planes, and her secondary build means DD or CR that wanders too close gets hammered), as well as good agility and armor that, properly angled, resists a lot of AP.

Bismarck I kept and run in her secondary build. It takes a 15-point captain just to have it and good judgement when to brawl, but it's a lot of fun hosing reds that're within 11.1km. Best DD deterrent there is!

I agree w/ Neo, grinded FDG, she was a pain. She can be built for secondaries, but T8-10 campfest and her base detect means it's difficult to use it without getting smashed early. She can go AA build, but until CV rework (and hopefully more people playing them), it's not practical, plus only her long-range AA has the necessary base DPS, so she'll always require escort.

GK, OTOH, is a pretty good BB. She's not MB-focused as Yamato is, but her ability to tank is incredible. I went survival build on mine. When fire lasts only 27 seconds and flood only 51, it's amusing how much effort it takes to bring you down. Secondary build on GK, IMHO, is generally not worth it given the 11.5km max secondary range vs. the campfest. GK can go AA build, but only her long-range and some mid-range AA have enough DPS to be a threat, plus her large turning circle means capable CV captains will have no trouble striking her.

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9 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

The entire German BB line was outstanding.  I'm not sure who these clowns are that are leading you to think the FDG is anything other than another outstanding German BB.

Average Joes.

Biggest thing I disliked about FdG was that in the early game, when you were shooting at longer ranges, the guns were worse than Bismarck, which I didn't find as bad as everyone says. But if you're new to T9/10 ships, and aren't great at deciding when to close in, and when to stay at midrange, it can be pretty frustrating to play.

That, and Bismarck seems to corner like a sports car in comparison to FdG. (although I think that goes for T8 vs. T9 BBs in general)

I was starting to get the hang of it right about the time I unlocked GK.

I didn't find it horrible to play, just uncomfortable. Better players are going to be able to recognise/create situations where it can be used to its strengths more often than lesser players.

Now when I got into one of those situations, it was indeed outstanding. And while I didn't get those situations often enough to love the ship, I did get them enough to want to buy GK and learn the playstyle better. (which I will begin doing once Ranked Jr. is over lol)

 

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I really really hated the gneis. I loved the Bismarck (over 200games in her), own the tirpitz.  I thought the FDG was temperamental, subject to terrible games, but absolutely dominated everything in the right situations. Overall I thought the FDG was a good ship and I ran the 420s because they felt more comfortable. I love the GK, but sadly I gave up on the secondary build.

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With the Biz, you can be top tier and when bottom tier, its a great challenge to do well against tier tens... a win win. The FDG is almost always up against tier tens and it's tough to do well. Bothe the Iowa and Izumo perform just slightly worse, again probably due to MM.

Is it worth grinding? To get the Kurfurst? Yes, that big boy is the ultimate stumble drunk in the game. I can't tell you how much fun it is rolling through a cap and creating as much chaos as possible. Sure I die but usually take two with me an pop out 150k damage or so in 3-4 minutes. The Grin factor is a 10.

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10 hours ago, Hiroe said:

I intended at some point to grind all the way up the German battleship line, but then I gradually realized that high tier battleship play is very displeasing. The slow nature of battleships (even if they're a faster at the high tiers) combines with the slow nature of high tier play, and the result is a very boring experience. High tier cruiser play is more enjoyable, but still far from desirable. Tiers 5-7 are where the fun is for me.

So VERY TRUE statement  

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10 hours ago, Rabin69 said:

Most folks want to charge in at the start of the battle and pound away with secondaries.

Might get lucky once in a while at lower tiers but at T8 and up you will get punished for pushing too early and without support.

Time it just right and FDG and GK will make the reds pay badly, as you chew up their hit points.

I've seen lots of folks say they sold their FDG as soon as they got the GK, kept mine and still play it from time to time.

 

I tend to sell my Tier IXs when I get Tier Xs.   Not all of them, of course.  There are many that really worth keeping as they perform well in the routine Tier X matches you'll be in.   But so often the question is along the lines of "why Iowa when you have a Montana?'   Or any other IX/X huge difference ship pair.  

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Nope. I'm on the Bismarck as well, and am a complete sucker for all ships German, but I cannot in good conscious recommend grinding past it. FDG is such an awful ship it's comical. Same secondary armament, main battery, etc. while at tier 9, with the option to mount worse guns. There's a long list of reasons why FDG is a mediocre at best ship.

The big thing though is that the current meta is the antithesis of how German BBs are meant to be played. German BBs only have an advantage in close range brawling. Whereas the current meta is heavily centered around DDs with smoke and radar cruisers that camp behind islands spamming HE at max range, and long range sniping BBs.

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