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Gunga_Dinner

Match Maker, Match Maker, make me a match...

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Playing along happily and decide to work on the German DD line.  Things are going swimmingly!  Get to the T-22 and play through to get the XP for the Gaede.  The T-22 is pleasant to play, horrible guns, but still pleasant to play.  There is a very nice mix of matches made by Match Maker.  Sometimes I am top tier, sometimes bottom, sometimes in the middle, but not an overabundance of any particular one.  It is so nice, I am enjoying myself and Match Maker is almost an after thought, background noise, not even noticed except for the fact I am aware of how even handed it seems to be playing today.

I reach the XP for the Gaede and purchase it, select some mods, slap some paint on it and off we go to battle and things go pear shaped.  Suddenly, I am in Tier VIII battle after Tier VIII battle and it turns into a grind to get from match to match.  I find myself trying to learn how this new ship plays and I am doing it against ships that hit harder than I do and start the game with more health than I do.  I grit my teeth and work my way through, slogging my way through battle after battle full of bullies.

I have enough and go back to port and think, "Well hell!  If MM is giving Tier VIIIs top tier battles so much, I want some of that!"  As you do, you know what I mean.

Can anyone guess how this all ends?  How it turns out?  I'll hold my breath while you think about it.

You are correct my friend!  I am now in my happy little Tier VIII ship and Match Maker has me sailing amongst the giants of Tier X.  Not just one or two Tier Xs, but just like the previous Tier VIII battles, each battle is populated predominately by top tier ships.

So what is the point to all this?  Well, I suppose it is that Match Maker hates me I think.  I am going to switch my brand toothpaste and see if that helps.

 

PS - I am playing the German DD line to get to the Z-23 cause I got a paint job and Captain from a pumpkin and like a good little lemming, I heed the call of Wargaming's marketing ploys and insidiously obvious and irresistible lures.

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15 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Playing along happily and decide to work on the German DD line.  Things are going swimmingly!  Get to the T-22 and play through to get the XP for the Gaede.  The T-22 is pleasant to play, horrible guns, but still pleasant to play.  There is a very nice mix of matches made by Match Maker.  Sometimes I am top tier, sometimes bottom, sometimes in the middle, but not an overabundance of any particular one.  It is so nice, I am enjoying myself and Match Maker is almost an after thought, background noise, not even noticed except for the fact I am aware of how even handed it seems to be playing today.

I reach the XP for the Gaede and purchase it, select some mods, slap some paint on it and off we go to battle and things go pear shaped.  Suddenly, I am in Tier VIII battle after Tier VIII battle and it turns into a grind to get from match to match.  I find myself trying to learn how this new ship plays and I am doing it against ships that hit harder than I do and start the game with more health than I do.  I grit my teeth and work my way through, slogging my way through battle after battle full of bullies.

I have enough and go back to port and think, "Well hell!  If MM is giving Tier VIIIs top tier battles so much, I want some of that!"  As you do, you know what I mean.

Can anyone guess how this all ends?  How it turns out?  I'll hold my breath while you think about it.

You are correct my friend!  I am now in my happy little Tier VIII ship and Match Maker has me sailing amongst the giants of Tier X.  Not just one or two Tier Xs, but just like the previous Tier VIII battles, each battle is populated predominately by top tier ships.

So what is the point to all this?  Well, I suppose it is that Match Maker hates me I think.  I am going to switch my brand toothpaste and see if that helps.

 

PS - I am playing the German DD line to get to the Z-23 cause I got a paint job and Captain from a pumpkin and like a good little lemming, I heed the call of Wargaming's marketing ploys and insidiously obvious and irresistible lures.

when you get to T10 you are placed in T12 matches... 

 

 

 

lol j/k 

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2 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

when you get to T10 you are placed in T12 matches...

lol j/k 

LOL, Well...

If it is going to happen to anyone, it will happen to me.  I just pointed out the other day that it IS possible to be bottom tier in a Tier X ship(all the ships are Tier X, so Tier X is both top tier and bottom tier).  I will NOT be surprised if the next time I get into one of my Tier X ships, there is a Tier XII.

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...and you get to be the Japanese fleet in the version of Final Countdown where the alpha strike actually attacks.

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How can a tier 6 always be in tier 8 matches when the tier 8's are always in tier 10 matches as the tier 8 players claim?

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30 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

How can a tier 6 always be in tier 8 matches when the tier 8's are always in tier 10 matches as the tier 8 players claim?

That is what I thought and why I jumped into a Tier VIII ship!  Alas, it seems I am not the sort of Tier VIII that Match Maker wants to match with Tier VI or Tier VII.  I seem to be a find for a sprinkling of VIIIs and IXs amongst all the Xs.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

How can a tier 6 always be in tier 8 matches when the tier 8's are always in tier 10 matches as the tier 8 players claim?

Yeah, I'd like to know how those folks were getting top tiered with tier 8s. RNGesus always puts my 8s at the bottom.

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4 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

How can a tier 6 always be in tier 8 matches when the tier 8's are always in tier 10 matches as the tier 8 players claim?

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand, but not all tiers are played equally. There are more players at T8 than T6, T6 than T5, and very few overall at T9. There are a lot of T10s so the uptiering of T8 is greatly overstated, but when T10 can't make a match quickly with just T10s, it grabs T8 in place of T9 since nobody is there.

If there are more people above you and fewer below you, you get uptiered more. It's basic math. WoT has the same problem albeit 100x worse since they created a template system that makes bottom tier tanks the greatest proportion of the team. Very few slots for top tiers + more likely to uptier = permanent bottom tier.

Edited by awildseaking

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5 hours ago, awildseaking said:

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand, but not all tiers are played equally. There are more players at T8 than T6, T6 than T5, and very few overall at T9. There are a lot of T10s so the uptiering of T8 is greatly overstated, but when T10 can't make a match quickly with just T10s, it grabs T8 in place of T9 since nobody is there.

If there are more people above you and fewer below you, you get uptiered more. It's basic math. WoT has the same problem albeit 100x worse since they created a template system that makes bottom tier tanks the greatest proportion of the team. Very few slots for top tiers + more likely to uptier = permanent bottom tier.

It was sarcasm which doesn't work well at all in text and I should have known better. :Smile_facepalm:

Our current MM does almost the opposite to WoT's, with a few bottom tier dragged up to fill a match, and would actually work better here because tier 10 is heavily played because with permanent camo and premium time it is viable to play tier 10 constantly. We have far too many tier 10's in the queue which echos down the tiers.

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On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:01 AM, BrushWolf said:

It was sarcasm which doesn't work well at all in text and I should have known better. :Smile_facepalm:

Our current MM does almost the opposite to WoT's, with a few bottom tier dragged up to fill a match, and would actually work better here because tier 10 is heavily played because with permanent camo and premium time it is viable to play tier 10 constantly. We have far too many tier 10's in the queue which echos down the tiers.

WoT templates would not work "better" here because they don't work under any circumstance and are irrelevant to the actual problem, which is how many people play each tier. T8 MM right now is the lesser of two evils. T8 players are in fact getting uptiered a ton into T10 matches, even if it's just two or three per team. The number of players uptiered would only increase with a template that fundamentally eliminates T6-8 matches from the pool.

The saving grace of WoWS is that tier doesn't matter more often than not. 2 tiers down in WoT means you effectively have zero armor and zero pen. With the exception of overmatch memes, I don't have to fundamentally play T8 ships differently in T10. T8s lose a lot of DPM and survivability when downtiered and I think that has to be addressed at some point (similar to the concealment gap in T6-8 games), but tier spreads merely reflect the true problem of performance disparities. 

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Just now, awildseaking said:

WoT templates would not work "better" here because they don't work under any circumstance and are irrelevant to the actual problem, which is how many people play each tier. T8 MM right now is the lesser of two evils. T8 players are in fact getting uptiered a ton into T10 matches, even if it's just two or three per team. The number of players uptiered would only increase with a template that fundamentally eliminates T6-8 matches from the pool.

The saving grace of WoWS is that tier doesn't matter more often than not. 2 tiers down in WoT means you effectively have zero armor and zero pen. With the exception of overmatch memes, I don't have to fundamentally play T8 ships differently in T10. T8s lose a lot of DPM and survivability when downtiered and I think that has to be addressed at some point (similar to the concealment gap in T6-8 games), but tier spreads merely reflect the true problem of performance disparities. 

I never said it was the best solution only that it would work better here than it does in WoT. In WoT being bottom tier for most players means they will be unable to contribute other than by scouting and for most players they will not have the necessary crew training to do that. Here being bottom just means you have to be more careful on picking your fights, a tier 1 has the ability to hurt a tier 10. They would work better because of the large number of tier 10's in the queue. Yes, the 8's would be bottom tier more but that would be balanced from the current situation where only one or two 8's are dragged in and they are outnumbered but both the 9's and the 10's.

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7 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I never said it was the best solution only that it would work better here than it does in WoT. In WoT being bottom tier for most players means they will be unable to contribute other than by scouting and for most players they will not have the necessary crew training to do that. Here being bottom just means you have to be more careful on picking your fights, a tier 1 has the ability to hurt a tier 10. They would work better because of the large number of tier 10's in the queue. Yes, the 8's would be bottom tier more but that would be balanced from the current situation where only one or two 8's are dragged in and they are outnumbered but both the 9's and the 10's. 

I'd rather have a moderate number of bottom tier games with only a few T8s than a large number of bottom tier games with a lot of T8s. WoT MM used to be just like ours before the templates and that's exactly what happened. Bottom tier doesn't get any easier just because there are fewer top tiers.

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