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dmckay

Number of kills? DDs

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What might be the overall average number of kills in a game for DDs?  I mean all of them put together.  I know some are better than others but what might be the average overall for this type ship?  I am new to DDs and I am getting bout 1 kill per game and a few times 2. Got the German T-61 which seems pretty decent but it's hard to survive in a DD.  Die a lot.  Tks. 

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The DD class is not a kill class, the kill class ships are (depending of tier) Cruisers and BBs.

That said, the main production of a DD (when there is no CV present) is spotting. Capping is also good but depending which DD you choose, capping is done with help from your friendly cruiser.

IMO. The  DD class has no set avg kills in order to be great in the DD class. I think, the other skills take precedence/importance. A skilled DD player is not one who goes for kills or DMG with there pew pew mediocre guns. To me, a great DD player is

  • a spotter.
  • He is one with the mini map to understand his power and how to take full adv of the red teams flaws.
  • He is one to see the best victory path to win is probably the path with the least resistance.

I would answer you question with zero. Zero kills is the avg. BUT spotting and capping those skills are priceless.  

Edited by Navalpride33
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28 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

The DD class is not a kill class, the kill class ships are (depending of tier) Cruisers and BBs.

That said, the main production of a DD (when there is no CV present) is spotting. Capping is also good but depending which DD you choose, capping is done with help from your friendly cruiser.

IMO. The  DD class has no set avg kills in order to be great in the DD class. I think, the other skills take precedence/importance. A skilled DD player is not one who goes for kills or DMG with there pew pew mediocre guns. To me, a great DD player is

  • a spotter.
  • He is one with the mini map to understand his power and how to take full adv of the red teams flaws.
  • He is one to see the best victory path to win is probably the path with the least resistance.

I would answer you question with zero. Zero kills is the avg. BUT spotting and capping those skills are priceless.  

A good DD player who is playing to win will spend their time contesting caps (Which means killing enemy DDs) and launching torpedo attacks on battleships.

A DD who is actively trying to never be spotted or engage and destroy enemy destroyers is not playing to the best of their ability. The "mediocre guns" pew pew pretty fast and can start fires. DD is about using every tool you're given as much as you can to your absolute benefit.

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5 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

A DD who is actively trying to never be spotted or engage and destroy enemy destroyers is not playing to the best of their ability. The "mediocre guns" pew pew pretty fast and can start fires. DD is about using every tool you're given as much as you can to your absolute benefit.

^^^ They're a lot of DD players who would disagree with this statement.

IMO the best tool a DD has is concealment and speed. You can;t use a cruiser/BB mentality in some game situations like domination mode for example. The best tool for this situation IS

  • mini map awareness
  • Concealment
  • Speed

Since we play the same game, I know we have the same in game experience. I would conclude, we've lost some games BECAUSE a DD player just did not know when to stop shooting or conceal himself Or go for the cap for the win. Sometimes all a DD has to do is run away and we win on caps However, there is that one DD who manages to screw that up. LOL Never fails.

I also stated, depending on which DD you choose you can help the fleet. However, the skills mentioned above are priceless. That is what makes a casual DD player to a great DD player.

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I am a 48% potato.

1st match in Gearing 4 kills, my highest damage game ever 220k.

Clan wars shimmy 5 kills.

Random. Kamikaze R 8 kills.

Ranked sprint Grimmy 4 kills.

I average 1 kill in randoms ...

Spotting, smoking up team, contesting/capping, and advance torpedo warning are much more important to a win than kills.

 

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

^^^ They're a lot of DD players who would disagree with this statement.

IMO the best tool a DD has is concealment and speed. You can;t use a cruiser/BB mentality in some game situations like domination mode for example. The best tool for this situation IS

  • mini map awareness
  • Concealment
  • Speed

Since we play the same game, I know we have the same in game experience. I would conclude, we've lost some games BECAUSE a DD player just did not know when to stop shooting or conceal himself Or go for the cap for the win. Sometimes all a DD has to do is run away and we win on caps However, there is that one DD who manages to screw that up. LOL Never fails.

I also stated, depending on which DD you choose you can help the fleet. However, the skills mentioned above are priceless. That is what makes a casual DD player to a great DD player.

Of course you need to know when to engage and when to disengage, that's basic gameplay. But a destroyer who passes up any opportunity to make an impact is going to lose more games than win them if they are the defining factor.

It's not an exact science, but the wins and losses of this game are usually as follows. 40% games you wont win even if you play like a god. 40% of games you wont lose if you play like trash. 20% (probably less) of the time you're going to be the difference between a win and a loss. Here's where players start straying from the 50% win rate and either become potatoes or unicums.

Read the map. Read the situation. Make an informed decision. Use your awareness, concealment, and speed to make your attacks with a huge advantage in your favor.

If a DD player is managing to rack up kills and still pull a victory, they are obviously a much better DD player than someone who just spots and tries to torp, because the DD player that is racking up kills is, again, using every tool at their disposal to make as strong an impact on the game as possible. Good example DDs for this would be ships like Z52, Daring, Gearing, or Grozovoi.

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10 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

If a DD player is managing to rack up kills and still pull a victory, they are obviously a much better DD player than someone who just spots and tries to torp, because the DD player that is racking up kills is, again, using every tool at their disposal to make as strong an impact on the game as possible

I would state the opposite is true, but then its a matter of interpretation/point of view then say skill. IMO if a DD player is racking kills that means the big guns above him (cruisers/BB) failed horribly.

If you're going to hand the carry job to the DD. Even with every tool the DD has, that is not a good position to be in. Then again it can be done, dont get me wrong. But I think with what you stated above, is more fleet fail then actual reflection of skill, of the DD cpt.

We all know they'll will be games where DDs rack up kills but lose on pts.  Those are brutal loses.

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12 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

I would state the opposite is true, but then its a matter of interpretation/point of view then say skill. IMO if a DD player is racking kills that means the big guns above him (cruisers/BB) failed horribly.

If you're going to hand the carry job to the DD. Even with every tool the DD has, that is not a good position to be in. Then again it can be done, dont get me wrong. But I think with what you stated above, is more fleet fail then actual reflection of skill, of the DD cpt.

We all know they'll will be games where DDs rack up kills but lose on pts.  Those are brutal loses.

A destroyer can effectively spot, cap, and inflict damage while still maintaining their overall stealth.  This is simply an exercise in good map awareness and positioning--it doesn't matter if your destroyer gets lit up on the enemy minimap if your positioning negates the ability of all but 1 or 2 enemy ships to actually fire on you and your movement makes it difficult for them to land meaningful damage.  A lot of destroyer players, up to and including the tier 10 level, don't understand this.  Any time you can get a positive health trade against an enemy DD in particular, you need to take it; any time you are trading HP negatively, you need to break contact.  The trick lies in learning how to identify those situations on the fly, and that comes from a lot of trial and error (which should be done primarily at lower tiers).

If you look at the top destroyer players on any server, you are going to see a combination of very high win rate and very high damage averages.  This is not solely the result of playing in super unicum divisions all the time (that does affect those numbers, but doesn't create them), this is the result of understanding their ship's capabilities, consistently positioning themselves to have the maximum effect on the battle, and being far better than even above-average players when it comes to making ideal decisions.  A top player understands that hit points are just another consumable, and that using some of them to eliminate a threat is well worth it.

 

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On 11/3/2018 at 2:30 PM, Harv72b said:

A destroyer can effectively spot, cap, and inflict damage while still maintaining their overall stealth.  This is simply an exercise in good map awareness and positioning--it doesn't matter if your destroyer gets lit up on the enemy minimap if your positioning negates the ability of all but 1 or 2 enemy ships to actually fire on you and your movement makes it difficult for them to land meaningful damage.  A lot of destroyer players, up to and including the tier 10 level, don't understand this.  Any time you can get a positive health trade against an enemy DD in particular, you need to take it; any time you are trading HP negatively, you need to break contact.  The trick lies in learning how to identify those situations on the fly, and that comes from a lot of trial and error (which should be done primarily at lower tiers).

If you look at the top destroyer players on any server, you are going to see a combination of very high win rate and very high damage averages.  This is not solely the result of playing in super unicum divisions all the time (that does affect those numbers, but doesn't create them), this is the result of understanding their ship's capabilities, consistently positioning themselves to have the maximum effect on the battle, and being far better than even above-average players when it comes to making ideal decisions.  A top player understands that hit points are just another consumable, and that using some of them to eliminate a threat is well worth it.

 

It depends on the situation.  Take this game for example.  I give up on capping it since I have support behind me that can do it.  I nuke the BB defending the cap, then move on to get more kills because we are in desperate need of kills to reduce the enemy's points.

Other times the enemy has so many radar your time is best spent focused on spotting radar ships for your team to take out before capping.

The general rule however is to contest caps and control vision by smoking team mates and or killing enemy DDs.  Here is an older videos I did in a CV game where my CV is a potato and the team desperately needs spotting.

 

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On 11/2/2018 at 7:31 PM, dmckay said:

What might be the overall average number of kills in a game for DDs?  I mean all of them put together.  I know some are better than others but what might be the average overall for this type ship?  I am new to DDs and I am getting bout 1 kill per game and a few times 2. Got the German T-61 which seems pretty decent but it's hard to survive in a DD.  Die a lot.  Tks. 

If I average my 5 most played DD's I'm currently at 1.16 kills per game.

If your getting 1.0 kills per games off the starting line, that seems pretty good.

 

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12 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

It depends on the situation...

Your most recent video pretty much sums up what I was trying to explain (it's so much easier with visuals), in regards to your engagement with the enemy Benson and Shimakaze starting around the 4:30 mark: by using the terrain and recognizing that several enemy ships are fully preoccupied with your teammates, you manage to spot, support the cap push, and do high-value damage while being lit up for nearly the entire exchange.  You trade some hit points in the process, but giving up about a third of your health is well worth it when it takes two enemy DDs off the board and completely blunts their push on a whole side of the map.

Obviously, everything in this game is situational; I was just responding above to what I saw as an absolute statement regarding DD play.

Kuro-hype link to the video in question: :Smile_honoring:

 

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In Ranked Season 10 I had a 60% WR with both Shimakaze and Yueyang, but only 0.6 avg frags and below-average damage. It’s all about spotting, capping, and helping your team to win. In Ranked or Clan Battles, that approach can work.

In Randoms, my frags and damage are higher but WR lower. Random teams are not good at taking advantage of the DD’s spotting or smoke or drawing fire. It’s a different playstyle that requires more carrying.

In any case, who cares about kills specifically? For example, chunking 10k off the red DD early in the game gives you a huge advantage without a kill. Now you can flank or push behind enemy lines with confidence that you can win any 1v1 surprise DD engagement. You can be more aggressive in caps for the same reason. Staying at 3/4+ health after the opening phase of the game is a big deal for destroyers, and there’s no way I’d open fire and get spotted just to trade damage.

And if I’ve never been spotted by the reds, why fire guns for anything less than a huge kill? The mystery of “where is the red Shimakaze” is more valuable than 15k of fire damage to a BB.

BBs can count kills, fine, it makes them feel good.  But DD play is far more nuanced and situational. I’d suggest ignoring your frag count altogether.

Edited by n00bot
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When I'm driving DDS I focus mostly on spotting and capping and above all, staying alive as long as possible since a deleted DD cant spot or cap. I usually shoot my bote's guns only during close in fights with other DDs because that gun bloom reveals you to everyone, and I want to stay sneaky. I'll lob off torpedoes at any BB or CA/CL that looks like a possible victim and even when I don't hit them their taking evasive action might cause them to show their sides to friendly Cruisers and BBs.

In a nutshell, my goals while driving a DD is to cap, scout, and be a PITA to the Reds. If I get some kills too, nice!

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