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Admiral_Thrawn_1

How long for Subs to be ready for Randoms?

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With all the recent DDs being added including the RN DDs that come equipped with Hydro I can see how Wargaming is already handing us the tools to fight against subs which is needed before they could add subs. So question is how many months before we can use subs in Random Battles? ( They would make fun Christmas gifts, but I suspect that might be too soon for Wargaming unless they have done a ton of work without so much as a hint for us)

I am eager to fight on both sides of sub battles, and have been getting practice in in the Scenerio subs and also been working hard to have nice line up of DDs and CAs to counter the subs lol. ( And yes the anti sub warfare will be far more severe than what we are seeing in the Scenerio)

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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

( And yes the anti sub warfare will be far more severe than what we are seeing in the Scenerio)

only for the players with a functioning brain,the half bot players will not fare well with anti sub warfare.

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3 years

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1 minute ago, Cruxdei said:

only for the players with a functioning brain,the half bot players will not fare well with anti sub warfare.

Yep subs will be wonderful weekend weapons that can slide beneath those radar walls generated by ships that hid behind islands most of the battle and spam the radar. They will actually have to get moving for  a change lol.

Weekdays with the better teams I can see surface ships muderong the subs on sight like they do with their AA vs aircraft during the week. But on weekends CVs are fun to use and same will go for subs. What will be priceless is watching the. Noobs prematurely burn through their air supply and be forced to sit on the surface under attack while they recharge their air... :Smile_veryhappy:  I already know to travel surfaced unless spotted and only then to submerge.

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Judging by aa balancing and cv adjustment...

And considering you still need to add depth charges to a bunch of ships..

I'd say the best timeline might be christmas.

2019.

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Adding something like Sonar or hydro is easy programming but adding depth charges or those proposed depth charges which are launched into the air and land in the sea will require animation to make them a visible reality. THAT will take some time and will be different on each type and model of ship.  Then they have to animate them going into the sea and explosions underwater also.  They will have to animate the SUBS blowing up underwater as well.  I myself won't think that SUBS in some form playable to the public will make it for Christmas...but I HOPE I am wrong!!

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3 minutes ago, MajorRenegade said:

3 years

I hope youre right (and underestimating, to boot)...

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Just now, c3shooter said:

Judging by aa balancing and cv adjustment...

And considering you still need to add depth charges to a bunch of ships..

I'd say the best timeline might be christmas.

2019.

Areadly have the Depth Charges mounted, they just need activation. Also I have been suspicious that Wargaming already has been working on underwater terrain on maps since I get snagged on mysterious spots near land that I never got caught on before usingbships I oftennhave used and routes I often have used. And Zao I pointed out I think there is a reason why so many ships added onnthe kast 12 months come equipped with hydro...

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3 years to some final or almost final release? I dunno..thats too long..other competitive programs would have shortened the gap and WOW would end being a loser or even shed players because of the competition.  WOW is not going to rely on inhouse programmers but outside contractors...which they have in the past. Especially modeling.  I think they will fast track this as much as possible while there is momentum and interest.  WOW also has to think of the business angle and think up other "Resouceful" ideas like...Oxygen Reload Boost and similar for sale on the SUB line..you can let your imagination wander on that subject for a minute...LOL!   But you get the point.  Well, one things for sure..the GUI is not like a RTS so thats behind us...thats one thing WOW will not have to worry about.   In the meantime the CV is on another parallel track for release...Lots of food on the plate for WOW...

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I say submarines are a no go till wargaming returns to the world of common sense and stops making dumb moves to nerf all ship classes at once with their no armor change to doing 10% on secondaries, aa mounts, and torpedo bulges. Can't make this stuff up folks. Create a World of Warships sandbox server like you guys did with the HD remaster for World of Tanks. Test huge changes like this over there before proceeding to throw out common sense balance. As a reminder, this affects not just BB"s, but Cruisers and CV players as well.  Seeing Wargaming pulling a move like this thinks that submarines will get some overpowered gimmick that will throw off balance even more in the game.

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3 minutes ago, dionkraft said:

3 years to some final or almost final release? I dunno..thats too long..other competitive programs would have shortened the gap and WOW would end being a loser or even shed players because of the competition.  WOW is not going to rely on inhouse programmers but outside contractors...which they have in the past. Especially modeling.  I think they will fast track this as much as possible while there is momentum and interest.  WOW also has to think of the business angle and think up other "Resouceful" ideas like...Oxygen Reload Boost and similar for sale on the SUB line..you can let your imagination wander on that subject for a minute...LOL!   But you get the point.  Well, one things for sure..the GUI is not like a RTS so thats behind us...thats one thing WOW will not have to worry about.   In the meantime the CV is on another parallel track for release...Lots of food on the plate for WOW...

Yeah and I have experimented with the Scenerio, there is more that meets the eye. Such as the depth charge shockwave around the explosions does travel farther than the flash and damage dissipates gradually with distance and how much HP it will take off you , damage engine, or cause flooding is based on the distance. When surfaced the depth charge explosions already look nice enough. Despite the Halloween Camo I have been able to ID the subs to the real versions because if you look past the odd Camo the hulls are mostly as they should be if you stripped them a little.

Also took note of how Wargaming has 3 subs either side of the map to spawn and that long center island to prevent early crossing over  by Subs is a means of testing mechanics since onnone side some ships use hydro and other side does not. The bots also get more clever as the Scenerio goes on to collect data on how accurate sub attacks can be. And those Freeze Torps runnon different speed than the regular versions do Wargaming can collect data on which torp speed to use based on hit ratio. Detecting enemy ships changes depending if surfaced at periscope depth or submerged. I can see how Wargaming is collecting their data using cleverly disguised tests that they ensure get answered since not like Supertesters can try them in Randoms until they get released in Randoms along with Anti Sub Weapns. Future subs after initial sub releases could fall into the normal supertester hands, but this time they needed something different.

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Hopefully never.

They either need to extend oxygen limits, or use mandatory speed restrictions underwater.

Sub Op has been completely unenjoyable for me. Thanks to the usual bot ‘it’s their programming’ foolishness, I’ve done better doing nothing and just spotting than wasting time trying to attack things.

Didn’t think anything could be as displeasing as the mechanics of the CV rework, but the sub mechanics managed to be so.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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I'm guessing... Never?

Yeah, I don't think subs will ever be accepted by WG or the game community for randoms. 

I think that the low underwater limit would make subs very hard to use in normal battles. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah and I have experimented with the Scenerio, there is more that meets the eye. Such as the depth charge shockwave around the explosions does travel farther than the flash and damage dissipates gradually with distance and how much HP it will take off you , damage engine, or cause flooding is based on the distance. When surfaced the depth charge explosions already look nice enough. Despite the Halloween Camo I have been able to ID the subs to the real versions because if you look past the odd Camo the hulls are mostly as they should be if you stripped them a little.

Also took note of how Wargaming has 3 subs either side of the map to spawn and that long center island to prevent early crossing over  by Subs is a means of testing mechanics since onnone side some ships use hydro and other side does not. The bots also get more clever as the Scenerio goes on to collect data on how accurate sub attacks can be. And those Freeze Torps runnon different speed than the regular versions do Wargaming can collect data on which torp speed to use based on hit ratio. Detecting enemy ships changes depending if surfaced at periscope depth or submerged. I can see how Wargaming is collecting their data using cleverly disguised tests that they ensure get answered since not like Supertesters can try them in Randoms until they get released in Randoms along with Anti Sub Weapns. Future subs after initial sub releases could fall into the normal supertester hands, but this time they needed something different.

NICE Analysis on your post. I did not look into it as far as you did but what you say makes perfect sense which..well probably most did not really see but you OBVIOUSLY deducted those findings as a good observer. Good for you!  I had only played about about four games to get a 'Feel" of the SUB in play..it's okay but need some tweaking but this is just the beginning so can't get too critical.  As they say, this is a work in progress but so far I think this is workable in a rough phase.  When it goes to the SuperTesters it will be interesting to see their diverse opinions but then again it will depend on so many other things like what will the SUBS be fighting against and how strong will their counters be. THATS the scenario I wanna see...But I think its going to be slow (but not too SLOW) as we go!  Good Post Bud!

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Considering how rudimentary that they are in the scenario, I can’t see subs coming to general WoWs before Q4 2019 at the earliest.

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4 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Hopefully never.

They either need to extend oxygen limits, or use mandatory speed restrictions underwater.

Sub Op has been completely unenjoyable for me. Thanks to the usual bot ‘it’s their programming’ [edited], I’ve done better doing nothing and just spotting than wasting time trying to attack things.

Didn’t think anything could be as displeasing as the mechanics of the CV rework, but the sub mechanics managed to be so.

Nothing is cast in concrete insofar as speeds, oxygen limits, or anything shown right now. Its a very primitive test platform for the time being. If you played other SUB games you can see that the WOW version lacks a lot of attributes to make it interesting to play.  But those details will be added in later but not now.  But on the other hand..SUBs may afford other ship drivers some interesting fun because they there. I think thats where the fun also begins..a new challenge different than the ones presently played.  It will truly be the Cat and Mouse Game which will add to the battles and more than likely in your favor! 

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I just don't see the devs ever being able to make the subs playable while still feeling even somewhat like the subs of the era the game covers.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I just don't see the devs ever being able to make the subs playable while still feeling even somewhat like the subs of the era the game covers.

 

Agreed, and not because the devs are incapable, but because it's not possible.

 

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8 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Considering how rudimentary that they are in the scenario, I can’t see subs coming to general WoWs before Q4 2019 at the earliest.

Yeah you said a mouthful: It is quite rudimentary indeed.  no doubt about it.   When the SUBS get jerked off the Ports after Halloween  it will be interesting to see what the next development will be when they release an announcement. from the Devs.  That will kinda give us some roadmap as to where this is all going but again theres the CV project and thats important as well to WOW.  Dunno if the SUB and CV teams are in relation to what ther schedule is...what is more important as a priority...but as for your time line...your guess is a good as mine...we can only project what we think is - based on what we know so far...

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54 minutes ago, dionkraft said:

NICE Analysis on your post. I did not look into it as far as you did but what you say makes perfect sense which..well probably most did not really see but you OBVIOUSLY deducted those findings as a good observer. Good for you!  I had only played about about four games to get a 'Feel" of the SUB in play..it's okay but need some tweaking but this is just the beginning so can't get too critical.  As they say, this is a work in progress but so far I think this is workable in a rough phase.  When it goes to the SuperTesters it will be interesting to see their diverse opinions but then again it will depend on so many other things like what will the SUBS be fighting against and how strong will their counters be. THATS the scenario I wanna see...But I think its going to be slow (but not too SLOW) as we go!  Good Post Bud!

Thank you, lol I was suspicious that’s what Wargaming was up to, so I paid  attention and managed to test a few things to figure it out.

For example if you hold off on killing Rasputin and try to tangle with those DDs or better yet a couple of them you can get a good taste of the Depth Charges and figure of the shockwave vs direct explosive hit damage differences. If you get hit by the center of the explosion in direct hit you either die or lose 75%-90% of HP from some of the time’s I have managed to get hit or seen other subs hit. Which is good thing for balancing since surface ship attacks need to be quite painful to Subs in order to be fair in a PvP battle.

I am wanting to take a team of 4 players into the op in division to better test some of the mechanics, but there are plenty of them already in place. Must say I was pleasantly surprised by just how much is in place already by Wargaming.

And the speeds are not all that off on some of them, like Gerfalcon was the Hydrogen-peroxide version of the Type XXI which could pull off some good speeds, but was too complicated and temperament to get into production fir the war. The Zipper pretty sure is IJN sub, thinking it’s a class A Midget sub in which case it’s in game speed is accurate or even nerfed from real one. Sealowe is the production model of the Type XXI, hence the slower speed compared to its Protype version. Killer Whale is a Gato Class or Gato Class variant like the Baloa and such ships were frequently upgraded and modified between patrols based on experiences so it’s soeeds might actually be close to normal. Of course once tech trees of subs get added not all subs will have such speeds, there likely will be many of them that are much slower than the models displaced in the Halloween Scenerio.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1
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1 minute ago, neptunes_wrath said:

the ONE person on the forums you should not EnABLE   and you go right ahead and enable him....
Now you really did it.....

OMwviC1.jpg

 

he really has no idea at all what he is talking a bout... just sayin....

Its always good to let posters type their views..I am quite impartial for the most part...In reality its just a discussion and were not in control but we can talk about it.  Sometimes others views are so opposed to our own that it seems the other is in a Bizarro world..but hey.. they can speak their mind as well as we can ours.  And yes...some have shown to be on the very edge depending on the subject...but thats what these forum threads are made of.  But in any event your opinion is respected and thats what it should be.  

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2 minutes ago, dionkraft said:

Its always good to let posters type their views..I am quite impartial for the most part...In reality its just a discussion and were not in control but we can talk about it.  Sometimes others views are so opposed to our own that it seems the other is in a Bizarro world..but hey.. they can speak their mind as well as we can ours.  And yes...some have shown to be on the very edge depending on the subject...but thats what these forum threads are made of.  But in any event your opinion is respected and thats what it should be.  

agreed///  and opinion is just that... O P I N I O N...
But there are some people that seem to confuse OPINION with FACT... and those that go FARTHER and try to confuse US with their opinions and present it as FACT... and confirmation bias.....
dont fall for it... it is what makes the forums NOT a good place to find information....
 

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I think the release of subs will depend on the CV rework.  Sub_Octavian said he was optimistic for the rework in 2018.  I'm not sure if its still on that timeframe.  After the dust settles on the rework I expect the next round of sub test, playing against subs in an April fools event maybe.  Release in June in time for the kiddies to get out of school. 

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3 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

agreed///  and opinion is just that... O P I N I O N...
But there are some people that seem to confuse OPINION with FACT... and those that go FARTHER and try to confuse US with their opinions and present it as FACT... and confirmation bias.....
dont fall for it... it is what makes the forums NOT a good place to find information....
 

So true what you said..some LOVE to present the numbers from WIKI or similar and wrap them around their belief on a particular subject and think thats the absolute truth.  Same here applies as you said..this is all in a state of flux sn no one can absolutely predict an accurate outcome. But hey some try...what can you do?    I know some of the arguments here can get brutal at times...I am guilty as charged in the past!   I guess we have to temper ourselves but sometimes....well that didn't work!   I guess it depends on the subject discussed and most of the time the person whom you are talking to.    Its like when I took up debating in school...(long ago) some can get to you! LOL!  

Lastly..yeah forums can be rich to gather info but not always accurate as you said. We have to pick and choose which seems plausible and also cross reference those so called "facts" to ascertain their validity

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