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Anvil_Of_Victory

Fratricide

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In every war, there is the terrible reality of friendly fire. However, in WoW, this is severely penalized, despite the fact that most often, it is unintentional. 

I'm not sure what the purpose of this is. Most players, and I mean 99% of them, do NOT shoot at their teammates on purpose. It's purely accidental. So, why when it happens why are we so penalized for it?

I believe this is a weakness of the game that has yet to be addressed. Unintentional firing on your teammates is bound to happen even under the best of circumstances. It does not reflect on the player's ability nor does it demonstrate carelessness/disregard for your team; it's simply accidental. 

Having been a victim of this, I'd like to see this addressed by the game developers. It's not right to label someone as a traitor who was just trying to participate to the best of their ability with ultimate consideration for their teammates. 

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Let's be honest for a sec.

 

If you TK someone, it means you decided to take a shot even though your friendly is in your torps / shell path. You took that risk and now you don't want to take responsability for your action. 

Now what are the TK penalty ? being pink for X game . That's it . No economic / XP penalty, just being pink. And THIS is an issue. If I'm TK by some stupid DD who torps from the backline, it means I wasted all premium consummable, camo and flags in that game for nothing AND I don't get refund . 

 

Just accept that you made a mistake and be grateful you don't have to pay for your mistake. You lost nothing but the player you TK lost his premium consummable, camo and flags.

Edited by AlcatrazNC
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On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:09 PM, AlcatrazNC said:

Let's be honest for a sec.

 

If you TK someone, it means you decided to take a shot even though your friendly is in your torps / shell path. You took that risk and now you don't want to take responsability for your action. 

Now what are the TK penalty ? being pink for X game . That's it . No economic / XP penalty, just being pink. And THIS is an issue. If I'm TK by some stupid DD who torps from the backline, it means I wasted all premium consummable, camo and flags in that game for nothing AND I don't get refund . 

 

Just accept that you made a mistake and be grateful you don't have to pay for your mistake. You lost nothing but the player you TK lost his premium consummable, camo and flags.

I think what he's saying by "accident" is that it takes two for a tk to happen - the TKer and the TKee, neither being at fault or intentionally part of the certain situations.

(I'll skip the scenarios in game and remember people he's talking about a real life comparison …) 

Friendly fire and "collateral damage" or civilian deaths are very common and yet we don't always prosecute those do we? If we took WGs approach maybe we should prosecute every soldiers/pilot too then?

You can't argue one side in game and then the opposite side in the real world - this is a valid point by the OP

 

Edited by Commander_367
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Back in the day we used to see a lot of Team killing for stupid reasons. So while now I agree most of it is on accident. I feel like if we change it back people will get mad about something and TK a teammate.

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12 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

The DD that launches torps is only responsible up to the point that he launches his torps, once launched he no longer has control of the situation even if he issues warnings to other players

The ship that sails into torps is not able to prevent a launch, but he is able to steer and prevent/avoid most torps, especially if he reads chat or has situational awareness

 

This is where I disagree. The DD is responsible for launching his torps but he's also responsible of whatever his torps hits. I take the exemple of a DD dropping his torps but it is the same for other ship with their main guns.

 

If I'm into a brawling situation or I'm trying to tank and delay the ennemi push, I shouldn't have to worry about a friendly DD dropping torps. Because he warned me and I read the chat doesn't mean I'm able to make sure I'll not hit his torps. And to be honest, I would rather take a friendly torps, even if it means him turning pink than trying to avoid it and getting deleted by another ship because I was broadside.  

 

Accident can happens, as a someone who plays a fair share of DD and CA, I know that well. But there is a simple rule to follow to avoid TK other player : Don't shoot if a friendly may be hit by your shell/torps. If you ignore this rule, then TK might happens. But if you do, then you shouldn't be pink. 

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33 minutes ago, Lonewolfpj said:

Back in the day we used to see a lot of Team killing for stupid reasons. So while now I agree most of it is on accident. I feel like if we change it back people will get mad about something and TK a teammate.

Lone wolf is right... We've come a long way on this subject since alpha/beta testing.  There has been much discussion here on the forums, and the current method is the devs solution to an old problem. Changing it back would open the door for more intentional TKs.

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1 hour ago, Commander_367 said:

I think what he's saying by "accident" is that it takes two for a tk to happen - the TKer and the TKee, neither being at fault or intentionally part of the situation.

The DD that launches torps is only responsible up to the point that he launches his torps, once launched he no longer has control of the situation even if he issues warnings to other players

The ship that sails into torps is not able to prevent a launch, but he is able to steer and prevent/avoid most torps, especially if he reads chat or has situational awareness

Friendly fire and "collateral damage" or civilian deaths are very common and yet we don't prosecute those do we? If we took WGs approach maybe we should prosecute soldiers/pilots too then?

You can't argue one side in game and then the opposite side in the real world - this is a valid point by the OP

 

No.  It's on the DD in this game. You have enough to worry about with red ships killing you and you should NOT have to worry about a friendly DD who is torping without a BRAIN from God knows where behind you. DD IS responsible to not put his mates in harms way. Do you deliberately fire your guns when you know you may hit a friend?  Huh?  Do you? Idiot DDs torping and expecting engaged mates to get out of the way is on THEM. Period. Players have enough to worry about without having to worry about mindless torp freaks. When you are engaed in battle the LAST thing you should have to look out for is stupid torpers. 

Edited by dmckay
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This is a game....  And, because it is a game of civilians whom are playing to have fun, it begs to ask the question as to what the purpose of being pink really is?  It costs nothing.  It does nothing?  It means nothing......so, how is it value added and how does it contribute to the betterment of the game???  It doesn't and needs to either: 1) get some teeth in it where you are temp banned for some time or, 2) remove it and charge team damage against the shooter and call it a day.

Intentional team killers need to go.  There should be a TK report option that automatically notifies a moderator to review and take immediate action: either against the real team killer or against the false reporter....

 

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53 minutes ago, Lonewolfpj said:

Back in the day we used to see a lot of Team killing for stupid reasons. So while now I agree most of it is on accident. I feel like if we change it back people will get mad about something and TK a teammate.

It was a regular thing to have a griefer in a game or two each session.  That led to a lot of people shooting those that accidentally shot a teammate, and teams would basically eat themselves.  It was a really lame thing.  WG has fixed this one the right way.

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1 minute ago, Captain_Locke said:

It's fine where it is. you rarely see a TKer anymore, unlike world of tanks where it's every bloody game.

Agree.  Good point. WoT is an insane asylum. Lotta freaks there. 

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The current setup is not ideal but its the only one that works... if you make all damage reflective people will grief by jumping in front of torps... if you have no team damage you'll just see torps fired everywhere with no consideration. Gearing/haru up front gunning while shimas spray and pray from behind. It works I guess but dumbs things down considerably. I wouldn't be a fan.

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1 hour ago, Anvil_Of_Victory said:

In every war, there is the terrible reality of friendly fire. However, in WoW, this is severely penalized, despite the fact that most often, it is unintentional. 

I'm not sure what the purpose of this is. Most players, and I mean 99% of them, do NOT shoot at their teammates on purpose. It's purely accidental. So, why when it happens why are we so penalized for it?

I believe this is a weakness of the game that has yet to be addressed. Unintentional firing on your teammates is bound to happen even under the best of circumstances. It does not reflect on the player's ability nor does it demonstrate carelessness/disregard for your team; it's simply accidental. 

Having been a victim of this, I'd like to see this addressed by the game developers. It's not right to label someone as a traitor who was just trying to participate to the best of their ability with ultimate consideration for their teammates. 

Oh geez dude, either you are a troll, or you have just broken the cardinal rule of "if it's not stinking, don't stir it". You will now encounter the apoplectic righteous indignation of the sanctimonious TK, AFK witch hunters. There will be umpteen bazillion posts on how terrible and grievous an offense against God it is to damage another green pretend ship in a video game. Why if not for the 4hp you did by bumping that ship while madly evading fire, the team certainly would have sailed to an epic victory. Instead, you damaged a teammate and this caused such dismay and panic, not to mention man boobs, male pattern baldness, and erectile dysfunction, that your team was steamrolled in a 10-2  blowout, and it is all your fault. The only possible way it could have been worse is if you were disconnected after doing it, which would constitute authoritative proof that you are in fact, the Anti-Christ.

 

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17 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

This is a game....  And, because it is a game of civilians whom are playing to have fun, it begs to ask the question as to what the purpose of being pink really is?  It costs nothing.  It does nothing?  It means nothing......so, how is it value added and how does it contribute to the betterment of the game???  It doesn't and needs to either: 1) get some teeth in it where you are temp banned for some time or, 2) remove it and charge team damage against the shooter and call it a day.

Intentional team killers need to go.  There should be a TK report option that automatically notifies a moderator to review and take immediate action: either against the real team killer or against the false reporter....

 

Well, if you continue to TK your pink will last longer and longer. At some point you turn orange and are restricted to co-op. Keep TK'ing and you start getting bans that will work to a permanent ban. But you have to be clueless or a griefer to get to that point.

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1 hour ago, AlcatrazNC said:

This is where I disagree. The DD is responsible for launching his torps but he's also responsible of whatever his torps hits. I take the exemple of a DD dropping his torps but it is the same for other ship with their main guns.

If I'm into a brawling situation or I'm trying to tank and delay the ennemi push, I shouldn't have to worry about a friendly DD dropping torps. Because he warned me and I read the chat doesn't mean I'm able to make sure I'll not hit his torps. And to be honest, I would rather take a friendly torps, even if it means him turning pink than trying to avoid it and getting deleted by another ship because I was broadside.  

Accident can happens, as a someone who plays a fair share of DD and CA, I know that well. But there is a simple rule to follow to avoid TK other player : Don't shoot if a friendly may be hit by your shell/torps. If you ignore this rule, then TK might happens. But if you do, then you shouldn't be pink. 

The DD is responsible up to and including the time he launches torps and we expect him to make a good decision and predict the future 12 16 and even 20 seconds in advance to the best of his ability. This is reasonable.

After he launches, he cannot control the situation any longer … to ask him to accurately predict every situation and avoid launching under all averse/imperfect conditions would be unreasonable

In any case, what the OP is saying is "make the punishment consistent with military doctrine" 

Accept that these things happen and absent intent or gross negligence, no criminal prosecution warranted (although the US does sometimes pay money in the case of noncombatant deaths)

Edited by Commander_367

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2 hours ago, Anvil_Of_Victory said:

I believe this is a weakness of the game that has yet to be addressed.

^^^ More like you're  waaaay and I do mean WAY to late to the party objective.  The system has been enforced for over a year now, I think I did about 6 months before the automatic system was implemented.

I do remember,  the must common reasons or reasoning for people being pink back then was for pranks or malicious intent.

Now the pink is respected, the reasoning for it is  IMO people are more cautious/aware (except for some situation) . Even I can tell from your post, you hate pink but you're aware of it, *THAT* is the change the system has created. In other words, its more psychological However, I do understand must people wont change. If they persists a Perma ban is earned (which is not easy if you obey the system). 

IMO the system is cool in deviating one's behavior. There has to be consequences in the game, I think the system is fair. It has a %99 conviction rate of those who proclaimed there innocents in the forums.

You can not deflect blame on others IF you fired the fatal shot on a teammate. In that regard, I can't complain against.

Edited by Navalpride33

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1 hour ago, dmckay said:

No.  It's on the DD in this game. You have enough to worry about with red ships killing you and you should NOT have to worry about a friendly DD who is torping without a BRAIN from God knows where behind you. DD IS responsible to not put his mates in harms way. Do you deliberately fire your guns when you know you may hit a friend?  Huh?  Do you? Idiot DDs torping and expecting engaged mates to get out of the way is on THEM. Period. Players have enough to worry about without having to worry about mindless torp freaks. When you are engaed in battle the LAST thing you should have to look out for is stupid torpers. 

For some strange reason, I picture [edited] Cheney hunting quail with a shotgun and doing exactly as you describe - crazy stuff :)

In the case of military combat, you're in a warzone … everyone is already in harms way.

How can a DD prevent players from putting themselves in harms way if they are already in harms way?

 

Edited by Commander_367

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TK's happen, team damage happens. It's a fact of a 'shooting' game. It's a lot less prevalent nowadays as others have mentioned. There should be penalties applied so that you learn from your mistake (hopefully).

If there were no penalties be prepared for a disaster from the griefers out there.

Leave it as it is.

P.S. A DD is responsible for their torps until they have disappeared. Situational awareness is king.

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38 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

Correct, so don't sail into torps :)

Don't shoot your torps where someone can sail into the torpedoes.

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2 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

Don't shoot your torps where someone can sail into the torpedoes.

With 20 km torps that would be ummm never?

Anyways, the point is situational awareness works both ways and applies to everyone 

 

Edited by Commander_367
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13 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

With 20 km torps that would be ummm never?

Anyways, the point is situational awareness works both ways and applies to everyone 

 

 

There are only 2 ship with 20km torps : Asashio and Shimakaze

 

Asashio torps can only hit BB and CV which means if you TK someone with these torps, you need to rethink your positionning and your decision.

 

And who is dumb enough to play Shimakaze 20km torps ? It hits nothing but player who don't expect people to actually use these torps. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

There are only 2 ship with 20km torps : Asashio and Shimakaze

Asashio torps can only hit BB and CV which means if you TK someone with these torps, you need to rethink your positionning and your decision.

And who is dumb enough to play Shimakaze 20km torps ? It hits nothing but player who don't expect people to actually use these torps. 

Fine pick 16km then :)

Does that means DDs are the only ships required to be situationally aware?

Edited by Commander_367

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If you put torps in the water, you're responsible for them. You didn't see Roosevelt taking the blame for the USS William D. Porter

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3 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

If you put torps in the water, you're responsible for them. 

So why isn't friendly fire always prosecuted criminally IRL?

Back to the OP

Edited by Commander_367

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