Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
SJ_Sailer

Hypothetical - Effect on Game of Radar Blocked by Islands

41 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

7
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
48 posts
767 battles

I am not here to hash out the value of radar on the game in general, just how a simple change would affect the chess match between Destroyer and Cruiser.

Radar no longer penetrates mountains or islands

Move 1 Cruisers) No longer hide behind islands to use radar, they use it out in the open

Move 2 Destroyers) Approach caps with islands in front to cover them

Move 3 Cruisers) Knowing DD's approach caps with island cover they...

Just wondering how this would play out.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,408
[PNG]
Supertester
5,653 posts
6,455 battles

Two DDs can end up contesting a cap  indefinitely because cruisers would have to cross mid to detect the destroyers that are entrenched, which is impossible because the battleships are camping out waiting for the cruisers.

So, a draw until a cruiser gets impatient and gets deleted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,582
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,276 battles
9 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Two DDs can end up contesting a cap  indefinitely because cruisers would have to cross mid to detect the destroyers that are entrenched, which is impossible because the battleships are camping out waiting for the cruisers.

So, a draw until a cruiser gets impatient and gets deleted.

It would be up to the team's DDs to spot the enemy's supporting cruisers and BBs so that your own team's supporting ships can engage them and attempt to either sink them or drive them out of support range of the cap.  Of course, this is what happens already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,275
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
5,728 posts
9,439 battles
15 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Two DDs can end up contesting a cap  indefinitely because cruisers would have to cross mid to detect the destroyers that are entrenched, which is impossible because the battleships are camping out waiting for the cruisers.

So, a draw until a cruiser gets impatient and gets deleted.

Does that happen at T5?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
206
[TMS]
Members
1,616 posts
21,646 battles
26 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Two DDs can end up contesting a cap  indefinitely because cruisers would have to cross mid to detect the destroyers that are entrenched, which is impossible because the battleships are camping out waiting for the cruisers.

So, a draw until a cruiser gets impatient and gets deleted.

Or I push out in front in my BB with 2 DDs right beside me and cruiser right behind and the DDs gets pushed out, I have done it. 

Edited by Final8ty
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,042
[OPG]
Supertester
1,880 posts
9,977 battles

Well you are presuming a single mechanics change.  Most radar ranges are currently nerfed to limit their effectiveness thru islands.   If radar was to be LoS only, then many radar ranges and durations would increase to compensate.   In such a situation, DDs going out ahead would be suicidal without island cover.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
427
[INTEL]
Beta Testers
1,572 posts
3,893 battles
30 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

If radar was to be LoS only, then many radar ranges and durations would increase to compensate.

With the recent change that shrank all radar ranges in below ship detection ranges, I doubt that correction would be applied.  It would just recreate a problem that WG has recently solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
416
[CAST]
Members
1,397 posts
5,794 battles
2 hours ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Move 2 Destroyers) Approach caps with islands in front to cover them

This works just fine with radar as is.  The fact that so many players refuse to do this (or fail repeatedly while trying) makes the hypothetical pointless--change things however you want, people will still find a way to misplay and complain about it.

EDIT: this is the internet so I should specify that I'm not referring to you when I say "misplay and complain about it." :Smile_honoring:

Edited by Harv72b
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
116
[--V--]
Members
481 posts
10,609 battles

All of this is moot if you fix the biggest garbage mechanic in the game besides fire damage -  SPOTTING  

Ship A spots Ship X 12km away.

Through the magic of WWII era radio communications, Ship B, who is 20km away from Ship X, now has crystal clear view of Ship X, including direction, relative speed, if they're turning etc.  And then Ship B can shoot as accurately as the guns allow at Ship X.

This is garbage and always has been.  FIX THIS and the radar issues go way. 

Options to fix could include  - have Ship B (in the scenario above) only see Ship X 10-20% of the time.  Or add 50% dispersion to any salvo.  Or have Ship B only see a highlight on the mini-map, but not be able to see the ship and actually fire, which is how it should be.

I know, I know,,,, cries and whines from the masses,,,,, 'we can't do this',,,,, blah blah blah,,,,

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Members
48 posts
767 battles

Well removing group vision would be a game-changer for sure.  Bigger than a CV rework.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
254
[KRAK]
Members
916 posts
12,912 battles
1 hour ago, Fishrokk said:

With the recent change that shrank all radar ranges in below ship detection ranges, I doubt that correction would be applied.  It would just recreate a problem that WG has recently solved.

Tats was a fix to stealth radar a separate issue so it has not solved the problem of island hiding cruisers taking no risk to greatly influence the outcome of the game it also does not fix the issue with every enemy being able to see  you once radared regardless of range to target.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
254
[KRAK]
Members
916 posts
12,912 battles
1 hour ago, SyndicatedINC said:

 If radar was to be LoS only, then many radar ranges and durations would increase to compensate.   In such a situation, DDs going out ahead would be suicidal without island cove

Was this stated somewhere?  the whole point of changing radar to LOS would be to decrease it's effectiveness as it dictates matches now and is OP. Lengthening ranges and duration would  just make radar OP again and too much of a deciding factor in matches.

Edited by Vaffu
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
206
Members
884 posts
6,909 battles
2 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

Does that happen at T5?

At t5 ships just yolo into the cap and brawl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
254
[KRAK]
Members
916 posts
12,912 battles
Just now, Rouxi said:

At t5 ships just yolo into the cap and brawl.

The way it should be but once you get past T7 that all stops cause of radar, repair costs and those scary torps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,275
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
5,728 posts
9,439 battles
5 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

The way it should be but once you get past T7 that all stops cause of radar, repair costs and those scary torps.

Torpedoes don't exist at T5?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,408
[PNG]
Supertester
5,653 posts
6,455 battles

The fear of dying doesn’t exist at T5. It does in T10, especially ranked, where death of a DD is almost assured loss.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
254
[KRAK]
Members
916 posts
12,912 battles
1 minute ago, HazardDrake said:

Torpedoes don't exist at T5?

Know many/any DDs at T5 that can launch torps from 12 plus KM away? 

All those lower tier ships need to do is get close enough to a cap to assist for instance but still out of torpedo range and it is like torps barely exist. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
427
[INTEL]
Beta Testers
1,572 posts
3,893 battles
15 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Was this stated somewhere?  the whole point of changing radar to LOS would be to decrease it's effectiveness as it dictates matches now and is OP. Lengthening ranges and duration would  just make radar OP again and too much of a deciding factor in matches.

Which is almost exactly the point I was making when you quoted me just above this post...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
254
[KRAK]
Members
916 posts
12,912 battles
3 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

Which is almost exactly the point I was making when you quoted me just above this post...

I must have  misunderstood or misread what you were getting at.

My bad.

Edited by Vaffu
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
102
[BIAS]
Alpha Tester
314 posts
9,328 battles
2 hours ago, Fishrokk said:

With the recent change that shrank all radar ranges in below ship detection ranges, I doubt that correction would be applied.  It would just recreate a problem that WG has recently solved.

 

58 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Tats was a fix to stealth radar a separate issue so it has not solved the problem of island hiding cruisers taking no risk to greatly influence the outcome of the game it also does not fix the issue with every enemy being able to see  you once radared regardless of range to target.

???

It did nothing of the sort; it was a specific nerf to Worcester and Seattle only. Chapayev and Minotaur retain their ability to stealth radar, while Edinburgh, Cleveland, Belfast, and several others that I'm likely forgetting retain the minimal delta that currently exists between their detection range and radar range.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
254
[KRAK]
Members
916 posts
12,912 battles
3 minutes ago, Dianeces said:

 

???

It did nothing of the sort; it was a specific nerf to Worcester and Seattle only. Chapayev and Minotaur retain their ability to stealth radar, while Edinburgh, Cleveland, Belfast, and several others that I'm likely forgetting retain the minimal delta that currently exists between their detection range and radar range.

So because it fixed all but two ships means it was not meant to fix it?

Belfast is the only T7 ship I can think of off the top of my head that has radar but maybe I am wrong since I have not play T7 hardly ever in quite some time.

Radar is only a real issue in T8 and above and the few ships you mentioned that fall into that range are just as likely to be deleted as kill the DD they radar.

This was a much needed change for higher tier play.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,476 posts
659 battles

I would guess that radar would be used by cruisers moving in to range to radar smoke clouds (that can no longer spot them because they are in smoke).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17
[SPTR]
Members
114 posts
4,486 battles
16 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

So because it fixed all but two ships means it was not meant to fix it?

Belfast is the only T7 ship I can think of off the top of my head that has radar but maybe I am wrong since I have not play T7 hardly ever in quite some time.

Radar is only a real issue in T8 and above and the few ships you mentioned that fall into that range are just as likely to be deleted as kill the DD they radar.

This was a much needed change for higher tier play.

 

Indianapolis and Atlanta have radar as well. Cannot remember the range on Indy, for Atlanta I believe it is just under 8km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
102
[BIAS]
Alpha Tester
314 posts
9,328 battles
3 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

So because it fixed all but two ships means it was not meant to fix it?

Belfast is the only T7 ship I can think of off the top of my head that has radar but maybe I am wrong since I have not play T7 hardly ever in quite some time.

Radar is only a real issue in T8 and above and the few ships you mentioned that fall into that range are just as likely to be deleted as kill the DD they radar.

This was a much needed change for higher tier play.

 

I mean, I don't know what to tell you at this point. Chapayev and Minotaur have both been able to stealth radar since their release in 2016, but Wargaming has shown no interest in removing that ability from them, meanwhile two cruisers which have only been out for a couple of months and were widely considered a bit too strong have it removed (Seattle couldn't actually stealth radar, but the difference was only a couple hundred meters). This, to me, pretty clearly indicates that Wargaming has no issue with the concept of stealth radar, but certain implementations of it they find problematic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,042
[OPG]
Supertester
1,880 posts
9,977 battles
1 hour ago, Vaffu said:

Was this stated somewhere?  the whole point of changing radar to LOS would be to decrease it's effectiveness as it dictates matches now and is OP. Lengthening ranges and duration would  just make radar OP again and too much of a deciding factor in matches.

In interviews and Q&A player complaints that Radar shorter than concealment range is too dangerous to use, have been told by WG that this is intentional as they can use islands to conceal themselves when radaring.   

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×