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AMajor

Request for suggestions on gameplay for the subs

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Just played my first two games in the Barracuda.  First game was a disaster, second was a 4 star w/me in top 3.  Still feel like I was more lucky than good.  Lots of questions for you folks who played up the line today:

1) Captain's skills - I set her (are subs she?) up like a very defensive IJN dd.  PM,PT, LS, AR, TAE, SE, Survivability, RL.  What do you suggest I change?

2) What percentage (approximately) should you spend on the surface, vs submerged?

3) When you're at periscope depth, is your air recharging?

4) team play - is it better to play like a wolf pack or spread out more?

I can only play a few games per night, so any help that you can give would be appreciated.

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3, no only when surfaced but there are subs that recharge very fast so you can flip your F and C keys rather quickly.

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5 minutes ago, AMajor said:

1) Captain's skills - I set her (are subs she?) up like a very defensive IJN dd.  PM,PT, LS, AR, TAE, SE, Survivability, RL.  What do you suggest I change?

RL is questionable, the rest look good.

6 minutes ago, AMajor said:

2) What percentage (approximately) should you spend on the surface, vs submerged?

You want to stay on the surface until you're about to be detected, then go to periscope depth and make your attack run.  Control your speed/don't rush in too deep until you get a better hang of the play.

8 minutes ago, AMajor said:

3) When you're at periscope depth, is your air recharging?

No, you only recharge your air fully surfaced.

9 minutes ago, AMajor said:

4) team play - is it better to play like a wolf pack or spread out more?

You can do it either way.  While you figuring things try to stay with the group.

10 minutes ago, AMajor said:

I can only play a few games per night, so any help that you can give would be appreciated.

It won't take long to get the hang of things.  I played in the PTS and it was a lot harder then and I was still able to figure out the game play in about ten games or so.  I've played four games today and only took a small amount of damage in one match.  Its that easy once you get the hang of things. 

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13 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

RL is questionable, the rest look good.

What would you suggest as the alternate 4 pt skill?

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Just now, AMajor said:

What would you suggest as the alternate 4 pt skill?

You could go with fire prevention, or on the Barracuda you could go AFT.  Or you can for go a four point skill all together.

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2 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

you could go AFT

Does AFT really help that much with the secondaries?

4 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Or you can for go a four point skill all together

OK, I'm game.  Which skills should I pick with those 4 points?

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Barracuda is a rough one to start with actually. It is so different from the others. It's secondary's are powerful, yes, but you still don't want to draw fire for very long at all and your detectability is the lowest of all of them. That being said, other than the Killer Whale, it is by far my most contestant high damage dealer. It's the ONLY one with a SECOND viable weapon system. The trick is knowing when to use that second system. Best time is to practice using it when you just need to finish off something low health or to take quick pop shots at a target and set them on fire while on torp reload. DON'T stay on the surface long however. You are still a light armored target. Unlike the other subs, it is viable to take the secondary Capt. Talents, yes. Most the other subs are even worse with skills because the game isn't designed around subs yet, so you will end up taking a lot of low tier stuff because it is all that makes sense. I swear Fire Prevention helped, but I likely would not take it if presented other options in a world that they had other options. Really though, I would suggest using the other subs to get the hang of torp / sub work with better detectability before frustrating yourself with the Barracuda. Once you get the hang of the others, you will have much more fun in the Barracuda because you will realize the advantages better. Just IMOP. 

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Here is another hint for ALL the subs. Use the frozen torp FIRST if you have them. Hold off from firing the others until that hits. It slows / stops them. Then once they are controlled, dump all the other torps into them increasing the chance to hit drastically and causing a massive alpha strike.

Also, if I was going to respec all of the captains, I would spec torp speed on all of them. Right now I only have it on 2 of them. Once you get used to the strategy of getting in close with your detectability then dive, then shoot close, you are ALWAYS within the lower range anyways. It's pretty much mandatory talent if I were spec'ing with what I learned now. 

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Don't bother with a 4 pt skill. You shouldn't be on the surface that often, you don't have guns worth talking about, and you really only get hit occasionally. Definitely don't bother with Vigilance. 

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3 minutes ago, guns_at_last_light said:

Don't bother with a 4 pt skill. You shouldn't be on the surface that often, you don't have guns worth talking about, and you really only get hit occasionally. Definitely don't bother with Vigilance. 

On paper I agree with you, but in practice you are going to have plenty of points to throw around with little other options, so taking the secondary skills is easy to pickup and personally I did notice a difference and can honestly say they did help. I am not sure I would take it once they rework talents with subs in mind, but for this op, it is worth taking on the Barracuda. 

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8 hours ago, AMajor said:

1) Captain's skills - I set her (are subs she?) up like a very defensive IJN dd.  PM,PT, LS, AR, TAE, SE, Survivability, RL.  What do you suggest I change?

2) What percentage (approximately) should you spend on the surface, vs submerged?

3) When you're at periscope depth, is your air recharging?

4) team play - is it better to play like a wolf pack or spread out more?

I can only play a few games per night, so any help that you can give would be appreciated.

For the scenarios you need to think about your skills a little differently in my opinion.

Level 1 :  I would grab Preventative Maintenance as the only level 1 skills of any use.   PT and IFA is not useful because you are going to be close a lot of the time and submerged so not easily targeted.

Level 2 : Adrenalin Rush because you want faster reloads and you will at some point take some damage to a minimal boost is cool.  I would also use Torpedo Accelleration the torps are 8km so this brings them down to 6.4, still within your surface stealth for most of these boats and well within your submerge stealth window and they go faster  so less time for avoidance.  The AI tends to use a lot of evasive maneuvers but in this scenario it seems that this is less of a factor and may be because torpedoes are everywhere.

Level 3: Torpedo Armament Expertise because you want faster reloads.  I would also suggest Survivability Expert for that little bit of staying power.

Level 4: None of these skills are particularly useful in the scenario setting.  In RANDOM games I *always* use RPF regardless of ship but here you are so close that it is a waste.  Fire Prevention at first glance looks good but water puts the fire out.....  just dive, problem solved.  I have not yet noticed that I was ever on fire.

So that is PM, AR, TA (a personal preference against the AI because of how they seem to react to torpedoes), TAE, SE.  This leaves you with 8 points to buff your play-style and if you need a couple more, maybe drop TA if you find yourself playing more cautious then I do.

 

I submerge only when I am engaging enemy ships. If there is nothing close, I am on the surface.  The first half of the game (till you spot Rasputen) is normally 3 engagements (more than 1 ship at a time) and these are easy.  Once you get into it with Rasputin and his escort you will start having air problems and I simply pop up grab a 1 second breath and dive for a couple seconds again, rinse repeat.  If you are outside your stealth range you should be surfaced.

 

Surface gives air, big surface spot, wide torpedo spread and easily hit by enemy. Periscope depth does not give air, gives a nice tight torpedo angle and very effective shooting, more stealth and torpedo avoidance (EDIT - check the torpedo avoidance at periscope depth, someone else said only on deep dive do you avoid them, I seem to remember seeing torpedoes heading my way and avoided them by diving, maybe I went to deep dive accidentally that time, I cannot remember) as well as ramming potential.  Deepdive does not give air, you can not shoot, you can go under enemy ships (no ram) can not lock a target (iirc) and gives really crappy visuals of what you are running into

 

So we 5-starred this a couple time last night. The basic plan that seems to have worked best for us so far is this (more or less):

Bottom spawn team engages and moves north till you can split left to join the top spawn group or right and move away from everyone.  At this point the fastest ship splits to the right side and heads towards the castle which you can spot from 5ish km and you should have spotted all the land installations on your side at that point. (coming from the other side you run into Rasputin and you can easily miss one of the land installations if you do not go far enough) Keep an eye out for the destroyers but you can dive and ignore them if you are running low on time (timer is top left with the objectives).  The other 2 from the south spawn, link to the left side with the north team and go though the center to hit the enemy ships.

The top spawn follow a similar path.  Again the fastest ship needs to head north at some point to spot the onshore installations.  you can do this either outside the island line (you are out of the fight for a while) or you can take the more dangerous route inside the island line but you will have to deal with enemy ships as well as destroyer iirc. You should have spotted your last installation at around the same time as the castle is spotted.  If you are spotting the castle from this side, there is an onshore installation towards the edge of the map right and below (iirc it is around 2 squares right and 1 square down from) the castle.  You may need to push a little further to get this one from this side, our approaches from this side was never a 5 star but it is possible.

The guys in the centre need to focus on taking down enough ships (14 is the goal iirc), keep in mind that Rasputin can be number 14 for a success.  What is very important is that the center groups must not destroy Rasputin till all the land installations as well as the castle are all spotted for your 5 stars. Kill him too early and you will not 5 star this.

EDIT - A number of other people are having success just all pushing center.  While this is possible, my concern is that if you are completing the missions accidentally, you are accidentally successful.  If you are not actively checking off the missions it could be easy to not push far enough to meet the condition before killing Rasputin.

A couple other tips, the stun torpedoes will stop their targets.  If you are shooting at a target that has a stun torpedo on the way you have a good chance of missing if he is stunned.  I personally found the rear shooting torps to be less effective until you get into the center fur-ball with Rasputin and his buddies where you have targets all around you.  There is no friendly fire so use your torps (EDIT - someone else also said that there is friendly fire, I was hit by 3 and still survived so maybe I was lucky, I am still convinced that you take no damage from friendly fire thou).  I found the front firing torpedoes most effective at 3 or less km.  1 stun torpedo followed immediately with 2 normal is more than enough, chances are good you will have a flood and if he does not die, he will be stunned for one of your allies to take out. 

 

I do not think subs are going to work in the game, at least not like this. Speed, torpedo damage, concealment ranges as well as the usefullness of the captain skills will need to be so carefully balanced and we know how good WG are at that.  As it stands now these ships have a very low captain skill requirement and my first few games were played with 0 captain skills and included 5 and multiple 4 star completions.  The submerge is way more powerful than smoke ever was and while it is limited, I can guarantee that no cruiser or BB is going sit patiently, keeping their guns trained on your location till you surface for air while all the reds are shooting at them, they will be running to cover or shooting back.  You simply gather air till the first shots are fired in your direction and you disappear again moving towards cover, pop up for a breath and down again. In random games I can see the rear firing torps being way more useful as you are moving away and towards cover while shooting. 

If they get put in like this, I am all over them as I am sure a lot of other people are thinking. The ultimate IJN destroyer with almost the same speed, built in CE and a "smoke screen" (read submerge) that instantly recharges (few seconds at most), blocks radar, blocks incoming shells and causes torpedoes into become friendly goldfish while you are in the "smoke" (submerged) that also moves with you.  Sign me up.

Edited by Squib_Surefire

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