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Target_1

Japanese carriers Hosho and Zuiho

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So, would I be correct in thinking that the tier IV Hosho and tier V Zuiho of the IJN are maybe NOT the most pleasant ships to run?

I'm thinking once I get to tier VI Ryujo which seems to have 3 fighter squads, that life might be easier.

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langley and bogue are not sunshine and rainbows too.

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hell i do pretty well in Zuiho...shet ...i do pretty good in the Langley....hahahah:Smile_hiding: 

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1 hour ago, Target_1 said:

So, would I be correct in thinking that the tier IV Hosho and tier V Zuiho of the IJN are maybe NOT the most pleasant ships to run?

I'm thinking once I get to tier VI Ryujo which seems to have 3 fighter squads, that life might be easier.

Hosho is fine in Tier IV.  The real problem is Zuiho in Tier V.  The USN CV Revamp actually improved only 2 USN CVs.  Bogue and Midway.  Bogue can easily outmuscle Zuiho in the air while still doing pretty good damage.  Zuiho can still do awesome damage, but with the removal of strafe, she has zero means on whittling Bogue's units down without resorting to costly, high attrition "Left Click Dogfights."  The proof is in Tier V Ranked stats.

Spoiler

8yAYazV.jpg

For the first time ever in WoWS Ranked History, an IJN CV finished with <50% WR.  IJN CVs have always done extremely well in Ranked, even in the face of some strong Premium CVs.  Hiryu, Shokaku, etc. always did well.  But Zuiho is the first of the line to fail in Ranked.

 

Ryujo in Tier VI is pretty flexible.  Her 1/2/2 Strike Spec hits hard but she cannot contest the skies.  Not with 1 fighter unit.  But the train of thought is nuking enough ships and swinging the match your team's way via pure attack.  This is IMO the harder route between this and her Air Superiority Spec.  Her 3/1/1 Air Superiority Spec lets her bully any other Non-AS Ryujo, Independence in the skies.  Independence players will whine that their 1 mega fighter unit is getting swarmed by your 3 fighters.  Indy wouldn't stand a chance.  The frame of thought is to shut the enemy CV down and keep the skies clear so that you harass enemy DDs and keep the bombers off your team.  However, you can establish air superiority and your team will potato its way to defeat.  This is a problem I ran into with some other Air Superiority CVs.  You don't have the firepower to truly affect change.  With 1 IJN TB, 1 IJN DB bomber force, you have very little attack capability to swing matches with firepower.  Choose wisely, brother.

52 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

langley and bogue are not sunshine and rainbows too.

Have you tried Bogue since the USN CV Revamp?  For the tier, she is very well rounded.  I could go into a Double Tier V & IV CV match with Bogue, wipe out most of the initial air groups for Zuiho and the opposing IV CV, and still have lots of planes and ammo left over BEFORE requiring a return to replace losses and rearm.  The large USN TB & DB unit is strong enough in Tier V.  The only place Bogue stinks is when dealing with Tier VI CVs.

 

I vividly remember when Bogue was one of the worst possible ships you can ever see on your team.  Today, unless she's dealing with a Tier VI CV, she's actually quite strong and can do it all.  She can contest the skies and still hammer it decently.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Be careful with the ryujo's three fighter squads. you can only launch one at a time. The independence's fighters, especially if upgraded, can shoot down your inferior jap planes faster than you can launch them. And there will be 6 fighters per squad to your 4. Independence can dogfight two of your squads together and obliterate both, and probably only lose one plane doing it.

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My notion is to just tie all three fighter squads together... then I'd have 12 to 6... should win that match up easily

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12 hours ago, 44_percenter said:

Be careful with the ryujo's three fighter squads. you can only launch one at a time. The independence's fighters, especially if upgraded, can shoot down your inferior jap planes faster than you can launch them. And there will be 6 fighters per squad to your 4. Independence can dogfight two of your squads together and obliterate both, and probably only lose one plane doing it.

It doesn't matter how strong Independence's single fighter unit is.  Because when she's getting baited and strafed by 3 fighter units or simply swarmed for Left Click dogfight, Independence will lose.  12 > 6, quantity over quality.  It would take a spectacularly bad RJ player to screw up a 12 - 6 fighter advantage.

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I think Hosho and Zuiho are ok, probably pretty balanced vs Langley and Bogue.

The twin TB's are quite a powerful thing, although you needsome friendly AA help to deal with the stronger US fighter.

Hosho and Zuiho have a huge speed advantage over the US counterparts, also a concealment advantage. These actually matter if you're a high skill player playing close to front line, and want to use your team mates as cover against DD's

Ryujo is really awesome IMO. Both loadouts are great, the AS still gets both a DB and a TB, and the strike loadout still has a fighter, unlike those miserable old USN loadouts.

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I feel more comfortable in Langley and Bogue, at least from the aircraft perspective (though the ships are far too slow to ever escape from anything that spots you with a clear path in, so I am very uncomfortable when I get the "spotted" icon!).  I am still grinding the XP on Zuiho to research all the modules so I still have the 1-1-2 loadout.  Does the number of reserves of each type in the hanger change depending on whether you have more dive bomber or torpedo bomber squadrons to play with?

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On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:19 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It doesn't matter how strong Independence's single fighter unit is.  Because when she's getting baited and strafed by 3 fighter units or simply swarmed for Left Click dogfight, Independence will lose.  12 > 6, quantity over quality.  It would take a spectacularly bad RJ player to screw up a 12 - 6 fighter advantage.

Eh, wrong. Once Independence's fighters are upgraded, they are just that good. Only noobs get baited. If you can spot ryujo's fighters before all 3 squads are launched, you win. If the ryujo player happens to be good, and keeps his planes back until all 3 are in the air, just make sure you fight over green ships with decent AA. The Independence fighters can easily take on 2 squads and win.

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4 minutes ago, 44_percenter said:

Eh, wrong. Once Independence's fighters are upgraded, they are just that good. Only noobs get baited. If you can spot ryujo's fighters before all 3 squads are launched, you win. If the ryujo player happens to be good, and keeps his planes back until all 3 are in the air, just make sure you fight over green ships with decent AA. The Independence fighters can easily take on 2 squads and win.

Sure, camp your 1 fighter unit over the Cruisers and Battleships while you yield the skies to RJ to torment your Destroyers.  You're going to have to come out and play in the skies eventually without AA cover.

 

It worked out poorly for Independence in Ranked.

 

Independence's fighter unit is strong but it gets swamped easily.  You're not fighting 2 squads, you're fighting 3.  12 > 6 and the you don't have Saipan Tier IX fighters fighting Kaga Tier VI fighters.

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destroyers can dodge cv's. I spent a whole game trying to bomb and torp one dd, and it still came and sunk me. the ryujo fighers are so bad, even 12 of them get rekt. I didn't play ranked when it was tier 6. if you think independence is so bad, grind the ryujo and see you in randoms. I may not be able to fly sorties until later in the game, but I can defend.

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in the current state of carriers, having multiple torpedo bombers, to do cross drops is superior in many cases, than having 3 fighter squads.

After the rework, who knows.

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17 minutes ago, 44_percenter said:

destroyers can dodge cv's. I spent a whole game trying to bomb and torp one dd, and it still came and sunk me. the ryujo fighers are so bad, even 12 of them get rekt. I didn't play ranked when it was tier 6. if you think independence is so bad, grind the ryujo and see you in randoms. I may not be able to fly sorties until later in the game, but I can defend.

The track history of 1 fighter CVs past Tier V is long proven :Smile_trollface:

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On 10/31/2018 at 11:06 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 This is a problem I ran into with some other Air Superiority CVs.  You don't have the firepower to truly affect change.  With 1 IJN TB, 1 IJN DB bomber force, you have very little attack capability to swing matches with firepower.  Choose wisely, brother.

 

Ironically though, that's how the other ships have to live.  Very rarely can one player carry a sack of rocks to the finish line.  Strike has always been the major issue with CVs.  The other is vision control, but...you have to win the air for that.  The problem is, deleting ships is what people want to do.  That's why BBs are so popular.  That's why DD's chase CV and don't contest caps.  And that's why the primed excuse for CV mains is, "I can't trust my team to get the win if I don't carry them".

Welcome to the same game the rest of us play.

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20 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Sure, camp your 1 fighter unit over the Cruisers and Battleships while you yield the skies to RJ to torment your Destroyers.  You're going to have to come out and play in the skies eventually without AA cover.

It worked out poorly for Independence in Ranked.

Independence's fighter unit is strong but it gets swamped easily.  You're not fighting 2 squads, you're fighting 3.  12 > 6 and the you don't have Saipan Tier IX fighters fighting Kaga Tier VI fighters.

Hm, it's been a while but I have 76 games in the Independence, and I don't recall struggling too much with Ryujos. Back when USN CV's really sucked in most tiers, the Independence felt like the exception.

Playing against AS loadouts is always tricky, and I agree it'd be extremely difficult against a guy who micros those 3 fighters really well. But my experience is those people are really rare in T6 CV's. Normally you can do a heck of a lot by playing your one fighter very carefully. Plus, he's not doing that much damage either with this 1 DB and 1 TB. Be careful, try to get one strike through, and you're even.

At least on EU most people would play the 1/2/2 Ryujo, and then you can simply out-muscle his fighter, and proceed to drop his strike planes like flies. And get a nice 100k damage yourself unopposed.

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