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Hazmat42690

Harugumo, Khab fire rate too high.

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Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but anyone else getting a little fed up with certain dd's ability to pop smoke and send a never ending stream of fire causing HE without detection due to the absurd fire rate of its guns?

harugumo.png

Harugumo 2.png

Edited by Hazmat42690
adding another picture
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25 minutes ago, Hazmat42690 said:

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but anyone else getting a little fed up with certain dd's ability to pop smoke and send a never ending stream of fire causing HE without detection due to the absurd fire rate of its guns?

harugumo.png

Harugumo 2.png

No, actually I find it hilarious.

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Have you encountered the Daring the tier 10 British Destroyer I heard they are feared as well by high tier players.

Edited by Rolkatsuki

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Khab has the second slowest reload of any tier X dd. Only the Shimi has a slower reload. As such, no. I think the Khab's reload is just fine.

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26 minutes ago, Rolkatsuki said:

Have you encountered the Daring the tier 10 British Destroyer I heard they are feared as well by high tier players.

He probably haven't yet 

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  1. Minotaur: 5x2 142mm, 3.2 second reload, 187.5 shells/min = 200,000 DPM*
  2. Worcester**: 6x2 152mm, 4.6 second reload, 156.5 shells/min = 114,767 DPM
  3. Daring**: 3x2 113 mm, 2.5 second reload, 144 shells/min = 81,600 DPM
  4. Harugumo: 5x2 100mm, 3 second reload, 200 shells/min = 80,000 DPM
  5. Gearing: 3x2 127mm, 3 second reload, 120 shells/min = 72,000 DPM
  6. Khabarovsk: 4x2 130mm, 5 second reload, 96 shells/min = 60,800 DPM

Worth noting: Harugumo and Gearing possess the same 5% base fire-starting chance (with the Harugumo captain being far more likely to have IFHE).  Khabarovsk and Daring both get an 8% base.

* DPM figured as 100% pens (HE shells except Minotaur) with all guns firing for the full minute.

** Yes, Worcester and Daring don't possess the same ability to self-smoke as Harugumo, but both do possess the ability to island-hump/juke-tank in open water, along with the ability to heal damage taken.
 

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Fast ROF means they are easier to hit in smoke.  Spend time in the training room with a partner and work it out.  Smoke can matter little against players who train to blind fire.

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Harugumo is my fav ship but to say its in need of a nerf as far as reload time thats stupid. The ship cant turn, its slow, and is very easy to spot.  The torp reload is 2.5 minutes and if torps are sent towards the ship chances are it will be hit cuz it cant turn. Cv's eat the harugumo up due to its lack of being able to turn, so just cuz it can spam reload quickly doesnt mean its a fierce damage ship.  I mean without that reload time the ship would not be playable. Also example 40% of shots fired do nothing of any damage as well just saying.

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On 11/1/2018 at 8:39 PM, Beefstorm said:

Harugumo is my fav ship but to say its in need of a nerf as far as reload time thats stupid. The ship cant turn, its slow, and is very easy to spot.  The torp reload is 2.5 minutes and if torps are sent towards the ship chances are it will be hit cuz it cant turn. Cv's eat the harugumo up due to its lack of being able to turn, so just cuz it can spam reload quickly doesnt mean its a fierce damage ship.  I mean without that reload time the ship would not be playable. Also example 40% of shots fired do nothing of any damage as well just saying.

It's not the damage per shot that becomes a problem, it's the fire proc chance per shot. Same with all aforementioned dd's. 

 

On 11/1/2018 at 1:57 PM, Harv72b said:
  1. Minotaur: 5x2 142mm, 3.2 second reload, 187.5 shells/min = 200,000 DPM*
  2. Worcester**: 6x2 152mm, 4.6 second reload, 156.5 shells/min = 114,767 DPM
  3. Daring**: 3x2 113 mm, 2.5 second reload, 144 shells/min = 81,600 DPM
  4. Harugumo: 5x2 100mm, 3 second reload, 200 shells/min = 80,000 DPM
  5. Gearing: 3x2 127mm, 3 second reload, 120 shells/min = 72,000 DPM
  6. Khabarovsk: 4x2 130mm, 5 second reload, 96 shells/min = 60,800 DPM

Worth noting: Harugumo and Gearing possess the same 5% base fire-starting chance (with the Harugumo captain being far more likely to have IFHE).  Khabarovsk and Daring both get an 8% base.

* DPM figured as 100% pens (HE shells except Minotaur) with all guns firing for the full minute.

** Yes, Worcester and Daring don't possess the same ability to self-smoke as Harugumo, but both do possess the ability to island-hump/juke-tank in open water, along with the ability to heal damage taken.
 

So lets say the Worcester for instance, 156.5 shells/min so a %5 minimum chance to set fires with HE so with 156.5 shells you can essentially cause around 7 fires in a minute. 156.5 per/min x .05 = 7.825 unless this game does 5% per shell and then it comes out to an even more absurd number. On battleships fire damage per second comes out to around 500 per second per fire. So lets say you have 3 fires on your ship from 2 volleys, that's 1500 damage per second for the average 30 second burn time is 45,000 damage in 30 seconds for 3 fires. Put them out with damage control and the next few volleys you are once again burning. BB's are especially vulnerable to this HE spam due to their inability to get away from it and how big a target they are. Either the fire rate needs a debuff or the fire chance does. Losing half your HP to HE spam for a few minutes of exposure because of fire is punishing, and completely unrealistic. These ships were not made of tinder and match boxes. these are armored metal monsters. Normally the only time fire becomes an issue is when it's exposed to munitions such as on the USS Forrestal in 1967.

 

 

Edited by Hazmat42690

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15 minutes ago, Hazmat42690 said:

It's not the damage per shot that becomes a problem, it's the fire proc chance per shot. Same with all dd's. 

 

So lets say the Worcester for instance, 156.5 shells/min so a %5 minimum chance to set fires with HE so with 156.5 shells you can essentially cause around 7 fires in a minute. 156.5 per/min x .05 = 7.825 unless this game does 5% per shell and then it comes out to an even more absurd number. On battleships fire damage per second comes out to around 500 per second per fire. So lets say you have 3 fires on your ship from 2 volleys, that's 1500 damage per second for the average 30 second burn time is 45,000 damage in 30 seconds for 3 fires. Put them out with damage control and the next few volleys you are once again burning. BB's are especially vulnerable to this HE spam due to their inability to get away from it and out big a target they are. Either the fire rate needs a debuff or the fire chance does. Losing half your HP to HE spam for a few minutes of exposure because of fire is punishing, and completely unrealistic. These ships were not made of tinder and match boxes. these are armored metal monsters. Normally the only time fire becomes an issue is when it's exposed to munitions such as on the USS Forrestal in 1967.

 

 

 

What you don't mention is that BB have a fire resistance. The higher you play, the higher value that fire resistance  The higher you play, the lower the coeficient is is which means a Zao with 22% fire chance per shell doesn't actually have 22% but less.

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Fire

Edited by AlcatrazNC

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13 hours ago, Hazmat42690 said:

It's not the damage per shot that becomes a problem, it's the fire proc chance per shot. Same with all aforementioned dd's. 

 

So lets say the Worcester for instance, 156.5 shells/min so a %5 minimum chance to set fires with HE so with 156.5 shells you can essentially cause around 7 fires in a minute. 156.5 per/min x .05 = 7.825 unless this game does 5% per shell and then it comes out to an even more absurd number. On battleships fire damage per second comes out to around 500 per second per fire. So lets say you have 3 fires on your ship from 2 volleys, that's 1500 damage per second for the average 30 second burn time is 45,000 damage in 30 seconds for 3 fires. Put them out with damage control and the next few volleys you are once again burning. BB's are especially vulnerable to this HE spam due to their inability to get away from it and how big a target they are. Either the fire rate needs a debuff or the fire chance does. Losing half your HP to HE spam for a few minutes of exposure because of fire is punishing, and completely unrealistic. These ships were not made of tinder and match boxes. these are armored metal monsters. Normally the only time fire becomes an issue is when it's exposed to munitions such as on the USS Forrestal in 1967.

 

 

What @AlcatrazNC said, with the additional fact that various signals and captain skills can reduce fire chance/damage even further.  Also, 100% of fire damage can be healed by the repair party consumable, which is not only available to all battleships but also to most cruisers and even some destroyers at the tier 10 level.

As far as the "realistic" argument, the only way in which Warships is even slightly realistic is the ship models.  Among numerous other things, few ships carried reloads for their torpedo launchers (and even those that did generally carried only one reload), naval gunnery was far less accurate than in-game representations, and not even Scotty on the Enterprise had a magic button he could push to instantly repair the engines.  The game is designed to be relatively fast-paced and fun, neither of which could be applied to naval warfare in the real world.

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On 11/3/2018 at 12:23 AM, Hazmat42690 said:

So lets say the Worcester for instance, 156.5 shells/min so a %5 minimum chance to set fires with HE so with 156.5 shells you can essentially cause around 7 fires in a minute. 156.5 per/min x .05 = 7.825 unless this game does 5% per shell and then it comes out to an even more absurd number. On battleships fire damage per second comes out to around 500 per second per fire. So lets say you have 3 fires on your ship from 2 volleys, that's 1500 damage per second for the average 30 second burn time is 45,000 damage in 30 seconds for 3 fires. Put them out with damage control and the next few volleys you are once again burning. BB's are especially vulnerable to this HE spam due to their inability to get away from it and how big a target they are. Either the fire rate needs a debuff or the fire chance does. Losing half your HP to HE spam for a few minutes of exposure because of fire is punishing, and completely unrealistic. These ships were not made of tinder and match boxes. these are armored metal monsters. Normally the only time fire becomes an issue is when it's exposed to munitions such as on the USS Forrestal in 1967.

The math is good but you forgot several variables. No one has 100% accuracy so it might be better to assume that on the high side some one in one of the ships mentioned might be landing 60% -70% of their shells on a BB(since they are the largest targets other than CVs) from long range. I say long range because short range is improbable in this case as the BB would be able to respond and delete the offending HE spammer. If some one is landing HE spam from a range where it is impossible for them to miss then they are probably in range of your guns as well and you should not allow them to shoot you over 150 times. Now you also have to account for fire resistance for the ship that is being spammed. https://worldofwarships.com/en/media/tag/how-it-works/ (click on the videos for fire and HE) is helpful and will explain better then myself.  By not taking these variables into consideration these numbers misrepresent the threat of fire. 

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On 10/31/2018 at 5:25 PM, Hazmat42690 said:

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but anyone else getting a little fed up with certain dd's ability to pop smoke and send a never ending stream of fire causing HE without detection due to the absurd fire rate of its guns?

harugumo.png

 

You put yourself on a silver platter to get shot up by 3-4 ships and you put the blame on this on the enemy Haragumo. 

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38 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You put yourself on a silver platter to get shot up by 3-4 ships and you put the blame on this on the enemy Haragumo. 

Exactly this. 

OP, your poor positioning (and looking from your speed gauge, doing "bow-on reverse" tactic when facing multiple HE spammers) is to blame, not the enemy ships.

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14 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Exactly this. 

OP, your poor positioning (and looking from your speed gauge, doing "bow-on reverse" tactic when facing multiple HE spammers) is to blame, not the enemy ships.

If you are fighting multiple ships at 12.9km or less, with 2 BBs in Secondaries range, you done f--ked up.  Not only did he f--k up, the Bismarck player feels so cocky about the situation that he's sailing flat broadside so that he has max main and secondary gunfire going.  Not only that, you know you done f--ked up if a Missouri is blasting you with both main AND secondaries gunfire.  Then you got Tirpitz further away at 12.9km, at a range where German BB dispersion isn't an issue.  But no!  This is all due to the Haragumo!  Yes, the Haragumo did all this!

 

And is nobody else disturbed that in between the 7 minutes of the two screenshots, only 1200 damage was done by this BB?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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18 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you are fighting multiple ships at 12.9km or less, with 2 BBs in Secondaries range, you done f--ked up.  Not only did he f--k up, the Bismarck player feels so cocky about the situation that he's sailing flat broadside so that he has max main and secondary gunfire going.  Not only that, you know you done f--ked up if a Missouri is blasting you with both main AND secondaries gunfire.  Then you got Tirpitz further away at 12.9km, at a range where German BB dispersion isn't an issue.  But no!  This is all due to the Haragumo!  Yes, the Haragumo did all this!

 

And is nobody else disturbed that in between the 7 minutes of the two screenshots, only 1200 damage was done by this BB?

The screen shots are from two different battles.  One in Iowa the other in Lion.

You point stands.  If you are getting spammed you are likely out of position.  Too often I see a BB marry a spot and just try to tank.  That might work against two ships, but you are going to suffer heavily for that choice.  Better to kite out.  Another thing I see is BB players ignoring their consumables.  If you blow your repair or DCP, and especially both you are very vulnerable to subsequent damage.  Pull back, heal up, get your consumables back up then you can go heavy again.

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Yep rate of fire is way to high especially if you one the receiving end, while if your driving one your screaming at the computer SHOOT FASTER DAMMIT!

Learn to deal.  Fair is fair. the damage out put of this ship depends totally on ones ability to hit targets and not get sunk while doing it.  MOST player that dive into the IJN gunboat line get totally punked because they are not the most manuverable ships, and they are LARGE targets for DD's from Akizuki on up.    Most of the rep on these ships comes from the 20% of the people playing them that figure them out.  Most players stink in them.   Hell, even being average in one is a bit of a chore!

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