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Anij

Captain Skill Changes Needed

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The following 6 Captain skills need to be replaced or changed

 

Priority TargetàReplace with 10% increase in universal spotting Range

Do we really need a captain skills that tells us how many ships are targeting you? It’s a skill that bad players use because they have poor situational awareness to begin with. Good players probably don’t use this skills and finally it reduces the element of surprise when targeting an enemy ship.

 

Incoming fire AlertàReplaceàFlashless gun powder 5% reduction in being spotted when firing

Another captain skill that warns you that a salvo is incoming. As above this is an unnecessary skill and it reduces the element of surprise

 

Demolition ExpertàChange to Diving AP shellà5% chance in Underwater Citadel hit causing flooding

This skill needs to go. The last thing this game needs is another captain skill that increases the chance of fire

 

Inertia Fuse for HE ShellsàSwitch to AP shells

This skill needs to go. If it was done properly this actually should have been given to AP shells instead. Why? Look at pictures of the burning Bismarck, All those fires were caused by AP shells exploding INSIDE THE SHIP that started the fires. So either switch this skill to AP or get rid of it. It’s a buff to anything that slings HE. The last thing this game needs is 2 captain skills that increases the chance of fire.

 

Radio Locationà Change Mechanics or RemoveàReplace with 5%+ magnification on Reticle

What does this even do? Other then tell where enemy ships are which with good situational awareness should be pretty obvious. The mechanics are stupid. Unless the other player on the opposing SENDS a message (breaks radio silence) to another player on the other team then this skill should not even activate. It’s another form of a very weak Radar and it needs to go. This game needs more elements of surprise and less predictability in battles.

 

Concealment Expert àRemoveàReplace with maneuverability buff +5% rudder shift

It needs to go. There is way too much concealment buffs anyway. From camo to modules. Get rid of it and give players in ALL ships a universal concealment module

 

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2 minutes ago, Anij said:

The following 6 Captain skills need to be replaced or changed

 

Priority TargetàReplace with 10% increase in universal spotting Range

Do we really need a captain skills that tells us how many ships are targeting you? It’s a skill that bad players use because they have poor situational awareness to begin with. Good players probably don’t use this skills and finally it reduces the element of surprise when targeting an enemy ship.

 

Radio Locationà Change Mechanics or RemoveàReplace with 5%+ magnification on Reticle

What does this even do? Other then tell where enemy ships are which with good situational awareness should be pretty obvious. The mechanics are stupid. Unless the other player on the opposing SENDS a message (breaks radio silence) to another player on the other team then this skill should not even activate. It’s another form of a very weak Radar and it needs to go. This game needs more elements of surprise and less predictability in battles.

 

I'll just talk about the two I disagree with right off the bat.  

Priority Target is the most useful 1 point skill by a far margin, and in competitive play gives you far more information than is normally accessible.  You can get a significant amount of information about what a team is planning just by judging how many people are targeting you.  I'd venture 99% of unicum players take it on a vast majority of their ships.  

RPF is another tool that is used in competitive play.  Gives you a lot of information about the other teams DDs, and more often than not, will give you a pretty good guess of what they want to do.  

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You keep saying some of these skills are useless and nobody uses them, then immediately explain why they are useful and why people use them.  :cap_hmm:

 

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3 minutes ago, XpliCT_ said:

I'll just talk about the two I disagree with right off the bat.  

Priority Target is the most useful 1 point skill by a far margin, and in competitive play gives you far more information than is normally accessible.  You can get a significant amount of information about what a team is planning just by judging how many people are targeting you.  I'd venture 99% of unicum players take it on a vast majority of their ships.  

RPF is another tool that is used in competitive play.  Gives you a lot of information about the other teams DDs, and more often than not, will give you a pretty good guess of what they want to do.  

not gonna argue that with you at all but that is the point of this post. The game should be about unpredictability and surprise and imho it has swung to far too predictability and no surprise. None of the above 2 skills would matter if you gave all ships a 10 second radar sweep. Am I not correct?

So if that's the case give all ships a module they can install with a 10 second radar sweep that activates every 120 or every 180 seconds that tells u where everyone is but not enough to shoot at. Now you have radar in the game, BBS can push  , DDS can spot effectively with out getting shredded and its a completely brand new game..

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12 minutes ago, RightYouAreKen said:

You keep saying some of these skills are useless and nobody uses them, then immediately explain why they are useful and why people use them.  :cap_hmm:

 

they make a difference to good players..in fact they are very significant buffs to a good player ie anyone with a 48%+ win rate. I'm betting these players will be just as good without them. As for the players below 48%..then these skills make no difference since they didn't learn proper situational awareness in the first place.

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30 minutes ago, Anij said:

Inertia Fuse for HE ShellsàSwitch to AP shells

This skill needs to go. If it was done properly this actually should have been given to AP shells instead. Why? Look at pictures of the burning Bismarck, All those fires were caused by AP shells exploding INSIDE THE SHIP that started the fires. So either switch this skill to AP or get rid of it. It’s a buff to anything that slings HE. The last thing this game needs is 2 captain skills that increases the chance of fire.

IFHE does not increase the chance of lighting a fire. It actually lowers the chance of lighting a fire.

What IFHE does do is it allows HE rounds to penetrate thicker armor, so the HE round itself can more reliably score a penetrating hit (33% of listed alpha damage). It does not increase in anyway the chance of lighting a fire (it actually decreases it), a HE round has the same chance to light a fire regardless of whether it shatters or penetrates. IFHE enables a ship to penetrate more armor with it's HE rounds directly if the caliber meets certain thresholds, 152mm being the big one.

IFHE allows rounds to more reliably penetrate ships leading to higher salvo damage because they can punch through certain armor thresholds commonly found on many ships (32mm bow and stern as an example), it does not increase fire DOT damage, fire setting chance or duration.

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Personally, I'd argue that most of the proposed changes would be largely worthless to pick simply based on the amount of points required to pick them. How would 5% magnification even help? Even from, say, 25km off, you can see the target just fine. Not only that, but 5% is such a tiny amount. If it were a T4 skill, what with what it's meant to replace, I'd expect a 50% magnification buff to actually make it worth the 4 points.

Honestly, pretty much everything you've suggested is either so small you'd never notice the change or well beyond overpowered.

Another thing: the last thing the game needs is open water stealth fire on BBs. It was removed for a reason, and that was pretty much a DD thing. We do not want to encourage more BBs to border hump like it'll repopulate the human race after a cataclysmic event. This also goes for an AP buff. Would it help smaller guns? Ohh, certainly. Do you want to help Minotaur AP, though, or heaven forbid the border humping BBs? Minotaur is fine with what she has. It basically exchanges one problem for another.

That said, I would adore a skill that increases spotting range. If there's one thing I dislike in DD, it's not knowing what's going on at C while I cap A, but a 10% increase would be so small you'd never really notice it. Not only that, but it's so small it'd barely help with that problem, either. You'd either need a huge buff, or to make it only matter in, say, a squall. And, even in a squall, you'd only be gaining, what, 0.7km detection over the enemy? Sure, it'd be a huge difference, but I don't see it being an especially useful change for anything but ships you don't want to give easy stealth fire to. Imagine having a Harugumo hit that sweet spot. Or a Des Moines or Worcester. Even a Minotaur could be devastating.

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OP's post seems very much like a BB-main's wish list for not getting set on fire and being able to see those pesky DDs a little quicker.  Oh, and doesn't want anyone firing HE.  All fights should be all AP all the time. 

For example:

PT: 'useless skill' which I've seen a LOT of people on this forum recommend.  He wants more surprise...  Oh!  He doesn't want the victim to see his BB AP salvo incoming.  Got it.

IFA Same as PT, although not used as much.  Again, doesn't want victim to see the shells in the air.  Probably so he can insta-kill that wiggling cruiser when it doesn't wiggle...

DE: Fits the list.  Wants less fire from those darned cruisers...

IFHE: Doesn't raise fire chance, but, he also doesn't want those CLs to be able to damage his precious BB with fire.

RL: This is most often used by DDs.  He wants to surprise them?  Not sure why this is in list, other than the 'surprise'

CE: He says he wants more surprise, but he wants less concealment?  I suspect he wants DDs to have less concealment so they can't surprise him so easily, no matter what he ways about surprise....

 

 

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1 hour ago, Anij said:

Priority TargetàReplace with 10% increase in universal spotting Range

Do we really need a captain skills that tells us how many ships are targeting you? It’s a skill that bad players use because they have poor situational awareness to begin with. Good players probably don’t use this skills and finally it reduces the element of surprise when targeting an enemy ship.

Lol so a good player knows where every DD and camping-behind-island cruiser is? It's useful for all players.  10% spotting range is way too much for a 1pt skill. 

1 hour ago, Anij said:

Incoming fire AlertàReplaceàFlashless gun powder 5% reduction in being spotted when firing

Another captain skill that warns you that a salvo is incoming. As above this is an unnecessary skill and it reduces the element of surprise

Nobody uses this anyway.  And 5% spotting reduction when firing reintroduces OWSF.  So, no.

1 hour ago, Anij said:

Demolition ExpertàChange to Diving AP shellà5% chance in Underwater Citadel hit causing flooding

This skill needs to go. The last thing this game needs is another captain skill that increases the chance of fire

It's only a couple %.  Besides, even in a Worcester, starting more than 10 fires in a game is uncommon.  And fire damage can be healed 100%, so no need to get rid of it.  And you're trading a cruiser/dd skill for a BB-specific skill. So, no. 

1 hour ago, Anij said:

Inertia Fuse for HE ShellsàSwitch to AP shells

This skill needs to go. If it was done properly this actually should have been given to AP shells instead. Why? Look at pictures of the burning Bismarck, All those fires were caused by AP shells exploding INSIDE THE SHIP that started the fires. So either switch this skill to AP or get rid of it. It’s a buff to anything that slings HE. The last thing this game needs is 2 captain skills that increases the chance of fire.

  much concealment buffs anyway. From camo to modules. Get rid of it and give players in ALL ships a universal concealment module

This would render the US CL line, as well as other ships, completely useless.  T8+ cruiser and BBs would be completely immune to HE other than unsaturated superstructures.  And it doesn't increase fire chance, it actually reduces it.  Switching it to AP completely changes armor mechanics. So, no. (I do think it needs to be nerfed somehow for the Kitizaze and Harugumo)

1 hour ago, Anij said:

Radio Locationà Change Mechanics or RemoveàReplace with 5%+ magnification on Reticle

What does this even do? Other then tell where enemy ships are which with good situational awareness should be pretty obvious. The mechanics are stupid. Unless the other player on the opposing SENDS a message (breaks radio silence) to another player on the other team then this skill should not even activate. It’s another form of a very weak Radar and it needs to go. This game needs more elements of surprise and less predictability in battles.

Radio silence... this isn't a sim.  This is a useful skill on some builds, but not overpowered by any means and it's a 4 point skill which means you're making big sacrifices elsewhere. And why does anyone need reticule magnification?  And why would anyone spend 4 points on something so useless?

1 hour ago, Anij said:

Concealment Expert àRemoveàReplace with maneuverability buff +5% rudder shift

It needs to go. There is way too much concealment buffs anyway. From camo to modules. Get rid of it and give players in ALL ships a universal concealment module

Just about everyone takes it, so it's a wash either way especially with the CE nerf to BBs, cruisers, and CVs.   And again it's a 4 point skill so it forces tradeoffs.  Without that tradeoff captain skills would become even more diluted as those 4 points could easily be spent elsewhere.  And 4 points for a 5% rudder shift. LOL. 

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*redacted. 

 

My brain just hurts something awful even reading this. 

Edited by BlailBlerg

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IMHO, such changes are not needed. Those skills are all working just dandy.

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3 hours ago, Anij said:

Good players probably don’t use this skills....

 

It's Halloween, not April Fools.....

If it's info, and it's available, you can bet good players will use it, and get more use out of it than your average player.

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1 hour ago, Doombeagle said:

Sniff, sniff, I smell BB driver.

I dunno, when you look at the actual reduction in concealment distance, BBs benefit more.

I mean, if you're a BB driver, do you really care if a DD disappears at 7km or 6.3km? 

Whereas 1.3+km (after normalisation to 10%) makes a fair difference to a BB.

IMO, the biggest difference CE makes to DDs is when it comes tontrying tonoutspot each other.

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Captain skills do need rework tho, on that the OP is right...

My personal requests would more amongst the line of fixed bonuses instead of % based.

Like both module and captain skill for secondaries == Flat +2.0 km range.  Why?  Good skill for high range secondaries, but also for low range.  Win-Win.
 -- Speaking of secondaries, they should split AA skills and secondary skills IMHO... No complain to the addition of more AA on my ships, but I'd rather have a dedicated secondary build worth an actual penny.
 -- Manual secondaries should increase vs selected target, but not prevent the other side of firing.  Also instead of +15% jumping to +70%, how about +40% across all tiers?  Again, useful at all tiers.

Torpedo Acceleration is another of these skill... +5kts, but -1km range (or something amongst the line... makes it useful to more builds)... Maybe another mirror skill like that that gives -10kts for +2km of range (would take that personally, numbers subject to change)

Fire Prevention needs to be a flat % fire reduction.  Maybe 2% like the one that adds the same.

IFHE was a mistake?  agreed.  Many are of the opinion the skill should go away, and rebalance of HE shells (especially smaller calibers) needs to happen.

Double catapult plane/fighters... They need to be in the same squadron, and they need their HP upped a bit.  They get own far too quickly vs bombers even.  Tho a carrier rework is coming so who knows.

-5% recast time of consumables?  how about a flat number instead?  5% of 120sec is 6 sec.   Numbers subject to change. Same thing for the other +10% time on DCP (I think).
 

Well you get my idea.  I'm pretty sure we all have our set of ideas we'd like to see.  I'm just hoping the tree will fix the pitiful secondary range on some ships where a +20 range bonus is pure garbage and not even 1km.
I hated the current skill tree the moment it was added, and I can't wait to see it changed.
My 2 cents.
 

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I think if there is something that need to be changed it's you. 

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The original post is Daycare Gang approved and a summary of the minutes during their last meeting.

Edited by _Caliph_
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3 hours ago, Anij said:

Priority TargetàReplace with 10% increase in universal spotting Range

Do we really need a captain skills that tells us how many ships are targeting you? It’s a skill that bad players use because they have poor situational awareness to begin with. Good players probably don’t use this skills and finally it reduces the element of surprise when targeting an enemy ship.

 

So the highly skilled players in this game are bad players, because they use and recommend this skill for many builds?
 

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Incoming fire AlertàReplaceàFlashless gun powder 5% reduction in being spotted when firing

Another captain skill that warns you that a salvo is incoming. As above this is an unnecessary skill and it reduces the element of surprise

Does anyone even use this skill? This is a question for the one who is currently reading this comment: Do you use this skill? If so, how useful is it?

I usually use my eyes. If I know someone is aiming at me (thanks to PT), I usually start looking for shells, and can see the shells flying towards me, without need of this skill.
 

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Demolition ExpertàChange to Diving AP shellà5% chance in Underwater Citadel hit causing flooding

This skill needs to go. The last thing this game needs is another captain skill that increases the chance of fire

... Demolition Expert is the only skill that increases fire chance. So what do you mean by "another"? And how would this skill affect bombs, because bombs can never citadel below waterline...
 

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Inertia Fuse for HE ShellsàSwitch to AP shells

This skill needs to go. If it was done properly this actually should have been given to AP shells instead. Why? Look at pictures of the burning Bismarck, All those fires were caused by AP shells exploding INSIDE THE SHIP that started the fires. So either switch this skill to AP or get rid of it. It’s a buff to anything that slings HE. The last thing this game needs is 2 captain skills that increases the chance of fire.

IFHE decreases fire chance, not increase it. Do you even know how to read? And you want to give AP shells a chance to start fires? So... To reduce fire meta, you want to increase fire meta, how does that logic work? Are you trolling?
 

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Radio Locationà Change Mechanics or RemoveàReplace with 5%+ magnification on Reticle

What does this even do? Other then tell where enemy ships are which with good situational awareness should be pretty obvious. The mechanics are stupid. Unless the other player on the opposing SENDS a message (breaks radio silence) to another player on the other team then this skill should not even activate. It’s another form of a very weak Radar and it needs to go. This game needs more elements of surprise and less predictability in battles.

What the heck are you smoking? It tells you the minimap quadrant of the nearest ship to you. Used quite often on destroyer hunters, because RDF usually pings DDs due to their high speed thus being closer to the front line.
 

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Concealment Expert àRemoveàReplace with maneuverability buff +5% rudder shift

It needs to go. There is way too much concealment buffs anyway. From camo to modules. Get rid of it and give players in ALL ships a universal concealment module

It is being modified so that it gives a flat 10% buff to concealment to all ship types, instead of what it is now. And ruddershift also has modules that do the same job, so the argument can be made for your suggestion: too many ruddershift buffs anyway, get rid of this skill.

NOW, if you had instead suggested "reduced turn radius" then maybe I would agree...maybe.

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3 hours ago, Anij said:

Priority TargetàReplace with 10% increase in universal spotting Range

Do we really need a captain skills that tells us how many ships are targeting you? It’s a skill that bad players use because they have poor situational awareness to begin with

You almost lost me here. Especially with the Bad Players part

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Demolition ExpertàChange to Diving AP shellà5% chance in Underwater Citadel hit causing flooding

This skill needs to go. The last thing this game needs is another captain skill that increases the chance of fire

Hell no. Freaking No. You want to change a "Cancer Skill" with another way more dangerous Skill. I can at least heal most of the HE damage but Flooding Damage? no. Flooding can kill a BB that has more than half of her HP if not healed, in less than a min. The last thing this game needs is Flooding chance from AP rounds.

3 hours ago, Anij said:

Concealment Expert àRemoveàReplace with maneuverability buff +5% rudder shift

It needs to go. There is way too much concealment buffs anyway. From camo to modules. Get rid of it and give players in ALL ships a universal concealment module

Do you want a riot? Do you want to see the world burn? Because that's exactly what Cruiser and DD mains will do. CE is instrumental in their survival, without it their effectiveness would be reduced, as base detection ranges of some DDs are at Cruiser levels (the Russian DDs) and some Cruisers have BBs levels of detection (Adm. Hipper for example). An universal Concealment Module exists already for T8s, 9s and 10s What do they Gain with this? Nothing. Do you want to give it to all Tiers? To replace CE? No that won't work. At all.

Most of the time im all for suggestions, ready to support them but this ones right here, i cannot support.

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3 hours ago, Anij said:

The following 6 Captain skills need to be replaced or changed

 

Priority TargetàReplace with 10% increase in universal spotting Range

Do we really need a captain skills that tells us how many ships are targeting you? It’s a skill that bad players use because they have poor situational awareness to begin with. Good players probably don’t use this skills and finally it reduces the element of surprise when targeting an enemy ship.

 

Incoming fire AlertàReplaceàFlashless gun powder 5% reduction in being spotted when firing

Another captain skill that warns you that a salvo is incoming. As above this is an unnecessary skill and it reduces the element of surprise

 

Demolition ExpertàChange to Diving AP shellà5% chance in Underwater Citadel hit causing flooding

This skill needs to go. The last thing this game needs is another captain skill that increases the chance of fire

 

Inertia Fuse for HE ShellsàSwitch to AP shells

This skill needs to go. If it was done properly this actually should have been given to AP shells instead. Why? Look at pictures of the burning Bismarck, All those fires were caused by AP shells exploding INSIDE THE SHIP that started the fires. So either switch this skill to AP or get rid of it. It’s a buff to anything that slings HE. The last thing this game needs is 2 captain skills that increases the chance of fire.

 

Radio Locationà Change Mechanics or RemoveàReplace with 5%+ magnification on Reticle

What does this even do? Other then tell where enemy ships are which with good situational awareness should be pretty obvious. The mechanics are stupid. Unless the other player on the opposing SENDS a message (breaks radio silence) to another player on the other team then this skill should not even activate. It’s another form of a very weak Radar and it needs to go. This game needs more elements of surprise and less predictability in battles.

 

Concealment Expert àRemoveàReplace with maneuverability buff +5% rudder shift

It needs to go. There is way too much concealment buffs anyway. From camo to modules. Get rid of it and give players in ALL ships a universal concealment module

 

Are there any captain skills you do like?

And with 1700 battles, do you even have a 19pt captain to try these skills on?

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3 hours ago, Anij said:

...in fact they are very significant buffs to a good player ie anyone with a 48%+ win rate. I'm betting these players will be just as good without them. 

How would they be just as good without them, if they are a significant buff?

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No, keep CE in, so people keep using it. It's basically useless for most players.

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