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Belthorian

Change to expert loader to reflect the new AP damage to DD changes

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 The change to AP damage to DD's by 230mm and larger guns is here. A change I would like to see is the Expert loader skill changed so that changing ammo type should he halved so a Battleship should be able to switch ammo types in 10 seconds maximum. At range you might only get a single salvo at a DD so having the ability to shoot the right type of ammo would be very helpful. Close range chance encounters you may only have a few seconds to react.....improving the Expert Loader skill will allow battleships a chance to defend themselves.

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image.png.269eb1ecd3fae809a3ad52643a356c7d.png

If you put a 10 second cap onto Expert Loader BBs will be able to exploit this mechanism to reduce their reload time to 20 seconds by switching ammo types twice.

so no

Edited by ADM_FvH
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11 minutes ago, ADM_FvH said:

image.png.269eb1ecd3fae809a3ad52643a356c7d.png

If you put a 10 second cap onto Expert Loader BBs will be able to exploit this mechanism to reduce their reload time to 20 seconds by switching ammo types twice.

so no

Huh?  No.  Expert Loader only works when your guns are already loaded.  It can't be exploited to shorten your reload time.

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20 hours ago, RightYouAreKen said:

Huh?  No.  Expert Loader only works when your guns are already loaded.  It can't be exploited to shorten your reload time.

What's he's saying is this:

- Have AP loaded
- Switch to HE
- Wait 10 seconds
- Have HE loaded
- Switch to AP
- Wait 10 seconds

That way you just reloaded your AP in 20ish seconds instead of say, 30.

Edit: I am now aware that at no point do I mention actually firing your guns here. 

Edited by Jiggiwatt
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3 minutes ago, RightYouAreKen said:

Huh?  No.  Expert Loader only works when your guns are already loaded.  It can't be exploited to shorten your reload time.

ok

Just now, Jiggiwatt said:

What's he's saying is this:

- Have AP loaded
- Switch to HE
- Wait 10 seconds
- Have HE loaded
- Switch to AP
- Wait 10 seconds

 That way you just reloaded your AP in 20ish seconds instead of say, 30.

Ye i made a mistake

Edited by ADM_FvH

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1 minute ago, Jiggiwatt said:

What's he's saying is this:

- Have AP loaded
- Switch to HE
- Wait 10 seconds
- Have HE loaded
- Switch to AP
- Wait 10 seconds

That way you just reloaded your AP in 20ish seconds instead of say, 30.

But there was no shooting. How can it shorten the reload if you never shoot?

Expert loader only works when all guns are fully loaded, if even one turret is out by .5 seconds EL won't kick in and you will go through a full 30 second reload.

- Have AP loaded

- Shoot AP

- Switch to HE

- Wait 30secs because EL never triggered

 

OR

 

- Have AP loaded

- Switch to HE

- Wait 10secs

- HE loaded

- Switch to AP

- Wait 10secs

 

So yes you can switch back to AP in 20secs, but you are never firing your guns. As a BB your guns are your principle weapon.

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9 minutes ago, Jiggiwatt said:

What's he's saying is this:

- Have AP loaded
- Switch to HE
- Wait 10 seconds
- Have HE loaded
- Switch to AP
- Wait 10 seconds

That way you just reloaded your AP in 20ish seconds instead of say, 30.

I'll sacrifice the extra 10 seconds, so that I can actually shoot the guns lol.

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38 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 The change to AP damage to DD's by 230mm and larger guns is here. A change I would like to see is the Expert loader skill changed so that changing ammo type should he halved so a Battleship should be able to switch ammo types in 10 seconds maximum. At range you might only get a single salvo at a DD so having the ability to shoot the right type of ammo would be very helpful. Close range chance encounters you may only have a few seconds to react.....improving the Expert Loader skill will allow battleships a chance to defend themselves.

Sounds like a good beginning to compromise for the unrealistic multiple torp reloads for DD in matches.

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6 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

But there was no shooting. How can it shorten the reload if you never shoot?

Expert loader only works when all guns are fully loaded, if even one turret is out by .5 seconds EL won't kick in and you will go through a full 30 second reload.

- Have AP loaded

- Shoot AP

- Switch to HE

- Wait 30secs because EL never triggered

 

OR

 

- Have AP loaded

- Switch to HE

- Wait 10secs

- HE loaded

- Switch to AP

- Wait 10secs

 

So yes you can switch back to AP in 20secs, but you are never firing your guns. As a BB your guns are your principle weapon.

Have AP loaded (toggle HE) Fire AP
EL kicks in 10 sec (during the reload of 10 secs toggle AP) Fire HE
EL kicks in 10 sec (during the reload of 10 secs toggle HE) Fire AP

You forget you can toggle to switch ammo types during the CD to automatically load the other type.

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1 minute ago, Junostorm said:

Have AP loaded (toggle HE) Fire AP
EL kicks in 10 sec (during the reload of 10 secs toggle AP) Fire HE
EL kicks in 10 sec (during the reload of 10 secs toggle HE) Fire AP

You forget you can toggle to switch ammo types during the CD to automatically load the other type.

That doesn't work.

EL only works when you force the reload of ammo from fully loaded guns. It does not ever trigger after you shoot, even if you switch ammo partway through the reload.

EL never kicks in after firing the guns, it only ever kicks in when forcing a reload on fully loaded guns.

So in your scenario:

Have AP loaded (toggle HE) Fire AP

30sec reload of HE starts, 10secs in you switch to AP

30sec reload of AP starts

EL never triggers

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13 minutes ago, jmanII said:

Sounds like a good beginning to compromise for the unrealistic multiple torp reloads for DD in matches.

How about they "compromise" on BBs ridiculous accuracy rates?

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1 minute ago, Vaffu said:

How about they "compromise" on BBs ridiculous accuracy rates?

Only if we pretend we are not in fantasy land and 1 hit from a 14"-18" gun takes out a DD!

 

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Just now, jmanII said:

Only if we pretend we are not in fantasy land and 1 hit from a 14"-18" gun takes out a DD!

 

You are in fantasy land if you think a BB would be able to even hit a DD at long range with any frequency at all.

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1 minute ago, Vaffu said:

You are in fantasy land if you think a BB would be able to even hit a DD at long range with any frequency at all.

Just as if you think that DD's have more than one reload of torps on them.

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16 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

That doesn't work.

EL only works when you force the reload of ammo from fully loaded guns. It does not ever trigger after you shoot, even if you switch ammo partway through the reload.

EL never kicks in after firing the guns, it only ever kicks in when forcing a reload on fully loaded guns.

So in your scenario:

Have AP loaded (toggle HE) Fire AP

30sec reload of HE starts, 10secs in you switch to AP

30sec reload of AP starts

EL never triggers

Exactly.  You can't use EL to reload faster, period.  It only lets you switch ammo type faster in an already loaded gun.

Edited by RightYouAreKen

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

 The change to AP damage to DD's by 230mm and larger guns is here. A change I would like to see is the Expert loader skill changed so that changing ammo type should he halved so a Battleship should be able to switch ammo types in 10 seconds maximum. At range you might only get a single salvo at a DD so having the ability to shoot the right type of ammo would be very helpful. Close range chance encounters you may only have a few seconds to react.....improving the Expert Loader skill will allow battleships a chance to defend themselves.

I disagree simply because it takes out some level of skill. The original intention was that you had to decide between AP and HE for each situation and plan accordingly. AP wouldn’t work well against DD’s and bow tanking ships so you’d need to switch. By allowing you EL, you can make that switch less painful and have a benefit to not firing while not making it too strong (not a required skill like CE). If you make it a max of 10s, there is no reason to plan ahead. The longest you could possibly have to wait to fire is 40s. The shortest would be 10s. It might not seem like much time but the extra 5s means a lot toward skill level and wether this will be a required skill or not.

Leave it as it is. 50% is plenty of benefit.

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7 minutes ago, jmanII said:

Just as if you think that DD's have more than one reload of torps on them.

Do you even understand why torps reload the way they do? Reloads are compressed due to time restraints. Should a DD be only able to fire one spread of torps during an entire match?

Guess what I might even go for that if they undid the umpteen nerfs done to torps like detection ranges, speed, and damage to make sure the BBs would stop whining about getting hit with those scary single digit hit rate torps.

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Life is hard when you're a battleship driver though

 

 What you're gonna nerf me?:cap_wander:

Well if I whine long enough I'll get a buff out of it too

Edited by silverdahc

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On the plus side, a similar change mooted at the same time was to remove 'module absorption' of damage. Currently if you ram a 16in shell through a turret, torpedo tube or AA gun it damages the module but not the HP of the ship. With the change it will at least do the same 10% as an overpen. That also goes for HE.

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11 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Do you even understand why torps reload the way they do? Reloads are compressed due to time restraints. Should a DD be only able to fire one spread of torps during an entire match?

Guess what I might even go for that if they undid the umpteen nerfs done to torps like detection ranges, speed, and damage to make sure the BBs would stop whining about getting hit with those scary single digit hit rate torps.

Not one, twice (I'm being nice). 

If you consider that each Shimakaze torp weight 2.7 tons and you can (without mods or CO skills) fire a max 120 torps in 20min match = 324 tons of torps.  This is living in a fantasy world if you think a ship could float let alone go 40 kts carrying that much.  Lets not even go into what would happen if a shell hit one of those torps. 

Don't give me the game balance [edited]. 

DD's are WAY overpowered in this game, yet they are the ones whining and complaining the most when the get nerfed.  Nerf for DD's get them closer to reality.

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1 hour ago, Jiggiwatt said:

What's he's saying is this:

- Have AP loaded
- Switch to HE
- Wait 10 seconds
- Have HE loaded
- Switch to AP
- Wait 10 seconds

That way you just reloaded your AP in 20ish seconds instead of say, 30.

.... but you never fired a round... so loading HE and then AP again in 20 seconds mean nothing since zero rounds are fired for that to happen. Once you fire either type you are locked into the 30 second reload.

You cannot fire AP,  then load HE in 10 seconds... if you fire AP or HE,  the next round, HE or AP, will take the full 30 seconds to load. Only if you switch unfired loaded shells do you get the reduction to reload time. There is no way it can be exploited the way you 2 described and it makes zero sense. Honestly it is frustrating to even read people propagating such nonsense.

Edited by ModDestroyer_1
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How about instead we just make the skill standard on BBs? No need to add things that might break things, just save BB players a skill point and remove their excuse for not switching to HE for things that need it.

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1 minute ago, jmanII said:

Not one, twice (I'm being nice). 

If you consider that each Shimakaze torp weight 2.7 tons and you can (without mods or CO skills) fire a max 120 torps in 20min match = 324 tons of torps.  This is living in a fantasy world if you think a ship could float let alone go 40 kts carrying that much.  Lets not even go into what would happen if a shell hit one of those torps. 

Don't give me the game balance [edited]. 

DD's are WAY overpowered in this game, yet they are the ones whining and complaining the most when the get nerfed.  Nerf for DD's get them closer to reality.

You are delusional. DDs are the most UNDER powered ships in the game.

When nerfs are unneeded and uncalled for going by statistics and not your personal feelings then yes it should be complained about.

BB are the only ships in WoWs that could be considered OP.

You want BBs to single salvo delete things while taking no damage. I sense a BB main.

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What I dislike about this is instead of fixing the double dip which can happen to any ship not just DD's they punish BB players across the board when using AP vs DD's, even those that are not double dips.

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1 hour ago, Jiggiwatt said:

What's he's saying is this:

- Have AP loaded
- Switch to HE
- Wait 10 seconds
- Have HE loaded
- Switch to AP
- Wait 10 seconds

That way you just reloaded your AP in 20ish seconds instead of say, 30.

So...in which point did you fire? I am sure you don't need to do anything to let your AP stay ready if you don't fire them, no matter 20s or 2min.

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