Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Carrier_Ikoma

Initial thoughts and feedback on SUBMARINES!

240 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts

Before we get into discussing mechanics, I just want to say the experience of playing one is really awesome. Sailing under ships, watching torpedos glide by, seeing a battleship breaking up as it sinks - It's really a very nice experience.

PIZYkAS.png

IObTPTX.png

 

So! with that out of the way, I do have some suggestions for improvements.

  • It's not clear what the maximum speed is at each depth. It would be nice if the engine order telegraph would indicate your current max speed, perhaps with some kind of orange line or something
  • Depth charges are impossible to see unless you're below periscope depth. It would be nice if there were better indications of where depth charges are.
  • The torpedo firing angles are kind of interesting. I think it works well for promoting an aggressive playstyle. But perhaps as an idea for future lines, giving some submarines their historical firing angles could be an interesting way to differentiate some submarines or lines.
  • Overall I like the idea of individually serviced torpedo tubes. However, starting with all tubes unloaded (yeah I know DDs work that way too) and going into the battle left me feeling like I was going in half cocked. Maybe this will not apply in PVP if it takes longer to make contact with the enemy, but I wanted to note it.
  • The oxygen balance here seemed pretty OK. I was a bit worried I wouldn't be able to use the deeper dive depths or I might run out before I could properly set up an attack, but it worked out nicely.
  • Trying to figure out which set of torpedo tubes to use can be a little confusing when you have potentially 3 different firing angles. Perhaps a UI option that automatically switches to the tubes closest to your camera's firing angle would be nice.
  • It would be nice to see oxygen time in port.

 

Anyways I'm really very excited to see this and it's a ton of fun. I wish I could time jump into the future and get right to playing tech tree subs - but for now, having a blast with the event and looking forward to 2019. I might post more feedback as I notice things playing these.

  • Cool 13
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47
[-BMV-]
Members
188 posts
13,297 battles

What about the camera angles. I read in some other thread that it wasn't that good. It obstructed the view a little (i'm currently at work and haven't tried the subs yet).

I like the suggestions, very simple ones yet extremely important. (really? you start the battle with torp tubes on CD?) +1 for the nice write up and helpful suggestions.

Edited by Sidelock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,034
[WOLF1]
Beta Testers
6,110 posts
9,224 battles

Was able to sneak in one battle before work today. Loved it! So much fun. 

Tv GIF

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
Just now, Sidelock said:

What about the camera angles. I read in some other thread that it wasn't that good. It obstructed the view a little.

It felt OK to me. As long as you're at periscope depth, the camera stays well above the water. And of course there's the shift view, which is still a bit higher up than a periscope would really be but I didn't have problems targeting with it.

At deeper depths the camera follows the sub a little more at level but... not much to do down there but enjoy the scenery anyways.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47
[-BMV-]
Members
188 posts
13,297 battles
1 minute ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

It felt OK to me. As long as you're at periscope depth, the camera stays well above the water. And of course there's the shift view, which is still a bit higher up than a periscope would really be but I didn't have problems targeting with it.

At deeper depths the camera follows the sub a little more at level but... not much to do down there but enjoy the scenery anyways.

Thanks for that fast answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,297
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
5,754 posts
9,484 battles
36 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

The torpedo firing angles are kind of interesting. I think it works well for promoting an aggressive playstyle. But perhaps as an idea for future lines, giving some submarines their historical firing angles could be an interesting way to differentiate some submarines or lines.

Submarines had no firing angles except straight ahead or straight astern.

The torpedos themselves controlled that via the gyro angle setting, which was programed before launch. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
Just now, HazardDrake said:

The torpedos themselves controlled that via the gyro angle setting, which was programed before launch. 

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
830
[SBS]
Members
2,420 posts
2,253 battles
Just now, HazardDrake said:

Submarines had no firing angles except straight ahead or straight astern.

The torpedos themselves controlled that via the gyro angle setting, which was programed before launch.

If you were to model that in the game subs would have about ~180 degree firing angle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
Just now, Slimeball91 said:

If you were to model that in the game subs would have about ~180 degree firing angle.

As with oxygen, I'm sure it could be balanced for gameplay. Just an idea anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
830
[SBS]
Members
2,420 posts
2,253 battles
Just now, Carrier_Ikoma said:

As with oxygen, I'm sure it could be balanced for gameplay. Just an idea anyways.

Yeah, I'm sure the firing arc will be a national flavor thing and 180 degree would probably too much for reasonable balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,861
[O7]
Supertester, Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
10,669 posts
7,570 battles
20 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Submarines had no firing angles except straight ahead or straight astern.

The torpedos themselves controlled that via the gyro angle setting, which was programed before launch. 

 

Not 100% true, the French had trouble figuring out the gyro so they built some subs with traversable tubes amidship. Bellone-class is a good example, I heard rumors that the Dutch had a similar system.

 

Here is an example from the Surcouf:

image.png.998a663c70252166b825f84f5c4d35ae.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,297
[WOLF2]
Beta Testers
5,754 posts
9,484 battles
10 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Not 100% true, the French had trouble figuring out the gyro so they built some subs with traversable tubes amidship. Bellone-class is a good example, I heard rumors that the Dutch had a similar system.

 

Here is an example from the Surcouf:

image.png.998a663c70252166b825f84f5c4d35ae.png

Really France? That was easier than figuring out a gyroscope?

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
879
[WOLF9]
Members
1,046 posts
3 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Really France? That was easier than figuring out a gyroscope?

There were actually quite a few nations that had externally mounted torpedoes, both to deal with the difficulty of directing torpedoes to their target, and to address the limited munitions space available inside the vessel. It got really weird when the torpedoes on the same vessel were of different dimensions, welcome to logistical Hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
27 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Really France? That was easier than figuring out a gyroscope?

Hehe. The US had its own problems figuring out torpedoes early in the war... though it was more related to the manufacturer believing they were above any criticism or suggestion of faults than a lack of engineering ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,849 posts
4,088 battles

now i'm surprised the subs are fun,but how will WG balance it for random mode?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
35 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

now i'm surprised the subs are fun,but how will WG balance it for random mode?

Very carefully and with a lot of testing - or so I hope.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,052
[WGA]
Administrator, Developers
805 posts
5,795 battles

We're glad most of the Fleet is enjoying taking the Halloween submarines out to battle Rasputin and her demonic fleet!

I enjoyed it too with the Gerfalcon submarine. Cruising on the surface until you get right up to your detection range and conducting an attack at almost point blank range while turning away and launching aft torpedoes laid waste to enemy battleships and cruisers.

Looking forward to more Halloween battles later this afternoon!

"We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds." - Chester Nimitz, US Navy

#anchorsaweigh

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
2 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

I enjoyed it too with the Gerfalcon submarine. Cruising on the surface until you get right up to your detection range and conducting an attack at almost point blank range while turning away and launching aft torpedoes laid waste to enemy battleships and cruisers.

Gerfalcon definitely has one of the more interesting playstyles. But I also like taking out the Seelowe and just nuking everything in front of me.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
272
[WOLF5]
Members
607 posts
12,012 battles

I had some fun in my first games with the submarines. I also had some very sad realizations:

 

1. The reason the CV rework and the Subs came hand-in-hand is that it is a very simplified 'arcade' flight model. The problem is there is going to be a skill divide very quickly. For those of you who have played WoWP and are not an ACE pilot, once the ACE pilots have arrived and made themselves at home, everyone else is just a target. In other words, the highly skilled players make it very difficult for new players to come into the game and learn because the new players spend most of their time dying instead of flying. 

2. I saw this first hand today, my son is a flying enthusiast and does very well in flying games, and submarines took him one game to acclimate and then he was farming damage. The subs are just slow motion airplanes really and he quickly was racking large damage totals. 

3. How wide will the skill gap be? I don't know, as the mechanics are still in flux. But it seems for subs, we have moved the skill gap from the CV's to this new class. What about CV's? I haven't played the Rework Test Server, but going in WG was bent on reigning in the CV's so not sure if the gap will remain there or be significant. It is very evident in subs right now, as torps are deadly and these little subs will be able to deliver them on silver platters in the hands of skilled players. 

4. Do you know what 'porpoising' is? You will. It will become the 'bunny hop'* of this game. 

 

 

*Bunny Hop - using the 'jump' ability in First Person Shooters repeatedly in order to avoid being hit by enemy fire. In the early days of FPS battle games, such as BF Vietnam, it was an effective technique. However, it resulted in everyone 'bunny hopping' continuously regardless of what they were trying to do. So it resulted in hilarious/pathetic games of lots of soldiers bouncing continuously as they fought and died. Subs use a version of this called 'porpoising' where the sub surfaces briefly and immediately dives again. Making them difficult to hit and allowing them to abuse their underwater cover for longer than intended. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
474
[KNTAI]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,106 posts
Just now, RevTKS said:

4. Do you know what 'porpoising' is? You will. It will become the 'bunny hop'* of this game. 

The zipper can do this, but the seelowe really can't. It's just far too slow. I would expect tech tree subs to be more like that, leaning a little more towards realism.

 

As for the other stuff, well... a sub won't be able to project power across the whole map, in more than once place at once, like CVs could. I don't think the skillgap will be *that* wide. It might be like DDs, though.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
272
[WOLF5]
Members
607 posts
12,012 battles
1 minute ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

The zipper can do this, but the seelowe really can't. It's just far too slow. I would expect tech tree subs to be more like that, leaning a little more towards realism.

 

As for the other stuff, well... a sub won't be able to project power across the whole map, in more than once place at once, like CVs could. I don't think the skillgap will be *that* wide. It might be like DDs, though.

I really confused the two skill areas, and that's my fault.

The problem with airplanes is that a good pilot will beat an average or bad pilot every time. Once you have a group of established good or expert pilots, you have essentially closed out the game to new players. They never get a chance to do anything but die. It happens in airplane/flying games quite often. The subs have a chance to do that...but it's early going yet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
183
[ONAVY]
Members
704 posts
6,142 battles

Really surprised at at how well this was incorporated and see the potential for them in regular battles. I would think these may be ready for introduction into the game very soon with the respective nations having access to submarine lines. Perhaps it can be incorporated into the CV rework now to see how attacks from air and sea as well and how everything will mesh. I like them GJ Wargaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26
[R_N]
[R_N]
Members
65 posts
3,861 battles

 

AWESOME!!!!!

About Fing TIME we get subs added to the game!!!!

Hope we can get them introduced by the end of the first quarter of next year.

Here are some examples of some SUB game play and how they could be once added to the live server of WOWS:

001 Red Oktober - submarine gameplay with comments

002 Red Oktober - submarine gameplay with comments

003 Red Oktober - submarine gamepley with comments

004 Red Oktober - submarine gameplay with comments

005 Red Oktober - submarine gameplay with comments

006 Red Oktober - submarine gameplay with comments

 

PLEASE NOTE: This is just for examples of sub game play and not an advertisement of a competitor's game.

Edited by Elder_Lee
  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×