Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Ramsalot

Personal T8 experiment

37 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
1,690 posts
7,230 battles

Having read a bunch of complaints about how tough T8 is, I decided to play T8 today.  Played six battles back to back on Atago, Kutuzov, Tirptiz, Amagi, Alabama, Lo Yang, all in solo randoms.  Six games, six wins, and all of the games were actually really fun (I usually stick to playing T10s).

  • Atago got T10 MM (this one was pretty awesome, as I was able to land few volleys on DDs and burn Montana to water line)
  • Kutuzov got T8 MM (close game, hard fought, brutally murdered Atlanta and Charles Martel up close with AP)
  • Tirpitz got T10 MM (one of two T8s, this game was pretty fun, got 2 citadels on DM from 21km and sank Ibuki)
  • Amagi got T10 MM (the only T8 on team, heavily damaged Musashi and GK, sank Chapayev)
  • Alabama T8 MM (close game, one of the last ships standing, had to shoot it out vs Amagi and Fiji in the end)
  • Lo Yang T8 MM (this was very fun, hunted down Massachusetts and Bismarck)

I know the sample size is too small, but it was a very positive experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
31 posts
2,950 battles
  • Correlation does not equal causation.
  • The enemy gets a vote.
  • No plan survives enemy contact intact

Or any number of Laws of War, or statistics or studies Rules of Thumb rule here.

Not taking away from any of your prowess, but results are so dependent upon what the enemy did. They might have decided (or undecidedly but coincidentally) to ignore you at times and gang up on (fill in the blank) instead. Or, they might have singled you our for special attention, lessening your results.

 

There's no way to know. We simply do not yet have the technology...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
395
[FAE]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
1,285 posts
4,673 battles

Your results don't matter i'm sorry to say.  The crux of why people including myself hate T8 is the fact that you're almost always bottom tier in a T10 game, and alot of those I personally find as the T8 i'm one of around 2-3 ships which is even more annoying.  At that point, why not just stick to the T10s WG is forcing me to play anyways for the legendary modules and a huge amount of other stuff.

 

You could lose every single game, or win them all like you claim.  Doesn't matter.  What really matters is the tier spread of those matches, and how many of each tier there were.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
261
[KRAK]
Members
938 posts
12,934 battles
4 hours ago, Ramsalot said:

Having read a bunch of complaints about how tough T8 is, I decided to play T8 today.  Played six battles back to back on Atago, Kutuzov, Tirptiz, Amagi, Alabama, Lo Yang, all in solo randoms.  Six games, six wins, and all of the games were actually really fun (I usually stick to playing T10s).

  • Atago got T10 MM (this one was pretty awesome, as I was able to land few volleys on DDs and burn Montana to water line)
  • Kutuzov got T8 MM (close game, hard fought, brutally murdered Atlanta and Charles Martel up close with AP)
  • Tirpitz got T10 MM (one of two T8s, this game was pretty fun, got 2 citadels on DM from 21km and sank Ibuki)
  • Amagi got T10 MM (the only T8 on team, heavily damaged Musashi and GK, sank Chapayev)
  • Alabama T8 MM (close game, one of the last ships standing, had to shoot it out vs Amagi and Fiji in the end)
  • Lo Yang T8 MM (this was very fun, hunted down Massachusetts and Bismarck)

I know the sample size is too small, but it was a very positive experience.

Unacceptable. T8 Cannot play in T10 matches.  Have you not seen the constant MM needs a change post?

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
439
[4HIM]
Members
1,701 posts
3,864 battles

Of those, only one is a tech tree ship.  The major pain when grinding T8's is when you have a stock silver ship and end up being the only T8.  Someone coming up through the tree grinding toward their first few T8's is going to have a vastly different experience from someone who mainly plays T10 all the time.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
656
[MIA-A]
Members
1,962 posts
6,549 battles

How do I get your MM?

Only 1 out of my last 8 games at T8 wasn't in TX. And that was T9.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
262
Members
1,587 posts
4,345 battles

To me, the most relevant part of the OP subjective assessment of enjoyment. It IS a game, after all. We always play to win, but we should be enjoying ourselves along the way. Game modes, MM, balance...when they’re done well, you can enjoy a ship at any tier.

My Tier 8 ships are some of my best, arguably, but they’re not necessarily fun (or, the most fun) to play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
89 posts
824 battles

I agree with op, so far I've found it fun and suitably satisfying to fight t10s in my t8s. It seems to be one of the more acceptable spreads, as you don't lose a ton of effectiveness if you play just a little differently. I treat it like the division of outdated support battleships (Colorado and others) used to support carrier and modern groups (North Carolina, Iowa, Lexington, etc) in the Marianas. Maybe thinking of it that way makes it a more satisfying experience for me.

The only time I've found being the bottom tier a pain in the [edited]is at t7. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24
Members
61 posts
16 battles

Do we have actual big numbers on how often you're top/mid/tier? Like thousands+ games. I could swear I’ve seen those floating around.

I don't mind being bottom tier as long as a good portion of games, say 30%, is something else.

And being a sole T8 in a field of T10 feels just unnecessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
257
[SUCIT]
Members
774 posts
3,493 battles
4 hours ago, CaliburxZero said:

Your results don't matter i'm sorry to say.  The crux of why people including myself hate T8 is the fact that you're almost always bottom tier in a T10 game, and alot of those I personally find as the T8 i'm one of around 2-3 ships which is even more annoying.  At that point, why not just stick to the T10s WG is forcing me to play anyways for the legendary modules and a huge amount of other stuff.

 

You could lose every single game, or win them all like you claim.  Doesn't matter.  What really matters is the tier spread of those matches, and how many of each tier there were.  

That's confirmation bias.  There have been many tests done by people, and you're bottom tier about 40% of the time. 

The issue with T8 is that you're either bottom or top tier, very rarely middle tier.  There aren't many T9 players, because most of those ships are regarded as some of the worst in their respective lines.  Not many people play T9's because they enjoy the ship, after they get their T10's.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,690 posts
7,230 battles
1 hour ago, XpliCT_ said:

The issue with T8 is that you're either bottom or top tier, very rarely middle tier.  There aren't many T9 players, because most of those ships are regarded as some of the worst in their respective lines.  Not many people play T9's because they enjoy the ship, after they get their T10's.  

This is changing with Alaska and Jean Bart soon to be added to existing pool of Missouri, Musashi, and Kronshtadt premiums.  There’s also Black, but there are too few of them to significantly affect T9 population.

Edited by Ramsalot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[NWNG]
[NWNG]
Members
1,899 posts
3,276 battles

A better way to do this experiment:
 

  1. use tech tree ships only
  2.  no premium consumable
  3. 10 games, with stock ship only, not even upgrades, and a 0 point captain
  4. 10 games, with stock ship only, no upgrades, and 10 point captain
  5. 10 games, fully upgraded, with 0 point captain
  6. 10 games, fully upgraded, with 10 point captain
  7.  If you have a 19 point captain, then 10 games with stock, and 10 games fully upgraded (OPTIONAL)
  8. Each game, record the ships, and the number of tier 10s, tier 9s, tier 8s, tier 7s, and tier 6s, in each game

That's a minimum of 40 games, with 60 games optional if you use a 19 point commander during the testing.

This will give a better representation of what F2P players have to deal with. But just know, that this still wouldn't be an accurate representation, because enjoyment factor is entirely subjective, and cannot be properly quantified. For a better representation, increase the number of each stcok-0-point, stock-10-point, full-0-point, full-10-point, to 25, which will give you 100 games total, 150 if you include 19 point commanders.

But still, enjoyment factor is too subjective to properly quantify.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
306
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Members
918 posts
6,285 battles
12 hours ago, Ramsalot said:

 know the sample size is too small, but it was a very positive experience.

Sample size too small, playing during the week when population is different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,690 posts
7,230 battles
45 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

A better way to do this experiment:

<snip>

But still, enjoyment factor is too subjective to properly quantify.

You brought up number of things that go against what I would consider to be enjoyment.  I play all my ships with 19 point captains, premium consumables, and maxed out signals.  The only non T10 tech tree ship I own is Amagi, because it's a solid ship and I happened to own permanent camouflage for it that looks particularly good with that new secondary color scheme option we got from Yamamoto collection.

Ce8vXAo.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
306
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Members
918 posts
6,285 battles
7 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

You brought up number of things that go against what I would consider to be enjoyment.  I play all my ships with 19 point captains, premium consumables, and maxed out signals.  The only non T10 tech tree ship I own is Amagi...

Congrats. You are everything that is wrong with tier 10.

In WoT this would not be possible without massive investment of real world dollars to support your play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[NWNG]
[NWNG]
Members
1,899 posts
3,276 battles
11 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

You brought up number of things that go against what I would consider to be enjoyment.  I play all my ships with 19 point captains, premium consumables, and maxed out signals.  The only non T10 tech tree ship I own is Amagi, because it's a solid ship and I happened to own permanent camouflage for it that looks particularly good with that new secondary color scheme option we got from Yamamoto collection.

Ce8vXAo.jpg

And that just means your testing is even more flawed. You did everything for your enjoyment, by utilizing things those still grinding a tech-tree line, may not have available. Sure F2P players can easily use premium consumable by using Credits, but not all of them do, because of the amount they cost. At least I didn't take away signals, because of the containers that give signals.

Edited by Counter_Gambit
Wording issues

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
120
[WOSV]
Members
324 posts
2,063 battles

So I've got a question:

With the Kutuzov, how often does it actually see Tier X? I know they're pretty rare to begin with, but I can't rightly recall seeing any at Tier X that often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,208
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
21,174 posts
3,867 battles

Sample size is far too small to mean anything.

 

Also it's not about being "too hard", so you missed the point from the beginning.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
306
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Members
918 posts
6,285 battles
2 minutes ago, Halonut24 said:

So I've got a question:

With the Kutuzov, how often does it actually see Tier X? I know they're pretty rare to begin with, but I can't rightly recall seeing any at Tier X that often.

The big population shift to tier 10 has been over the last 6 months. Things are a lot different now than they were earlier in the year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,044
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,666 posts
9,977 battles

XH2LQxW.jpg

I recorded my T8 experiences grinding through Lightning recently.

Overall in 23 games 11 (48%) were T10, 9 games were T8 (39%) and just 3 were T9 (13%).

So T10 was the most prevalent, but top tier wasn't uncommon. The real outlier is that T9 games where you're mid-tier just virtually don't exist, despite there theoretically being lots of T7's to play with.

I didn't find it particularly unpleasant, just wearying, especially when you get chains of 3 successive T10 games. Some ships care more about tier than others, in Lightning I cared more about radar which was only somewhat connected to tier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,208
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
21,174 posts
3,867 battles
1 minute ago, mofton said:

I didn't find it particularly unpleasant, just wearying, especially when you get chains of 3 successive T10 games. Some ships care more about tier than others, in Lightning I cared more about radar which was only somewhat connected to tier.

This is the most common complaint. Yeah, I can fight while bottom tier, but the frequency at which I have to do it is tiresome and drains fun out of the game.

 

This is largely because when bottom tier, you have to be at the top of your game to be competitive against substantially stronger ships. Doing this game after game after game just makes it exhausting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,690 posts
7,230 battles
1 hour ago, Gen_Saris said:

Congrats. You are everything that is wrong with tier 10.

In WoT this would not be possible without massive investment of real world dollars to support your play. 

You are right, WoT is the real money sink, this game is free.  I mean aside from premium ships I only spend a few bucks on these perma camos, but that's it - everything else is free to play, I swear.

F3JH3Pp.jpg

Edited by Ramsalot
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[PVE]
Members
376 posts
8,189 battles
7 hours ago, XpliCT_ said:

There have been many tests done by people, and you're bottom tier about 40% of the time.  

Sure, there are all these tests with percentages and what-not BUT...

These tests are over lots and lots of matches played. What about when you sit down and play 10 matches during your playing session and all ten of those are bottom tier.

Those players would say this sucks I'm always bottom tier wouldn't they? Oh and I know it's been pointed out already but OP needs to do this test in tech tree stock ships and then we will see what the opinion is.

Just some objective thinking for ya.

Edited by Rabbitt81

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
257
[SUCIT]
Members
774 posts
3,493 battles
1 minute ago, Rabbitt81 said:

Sure, there are all these tests with percentages and what-not BUT...

These tests are over lots and lots of matches played. What about when you sit down and play 10 matches during your playing session and all ten of those are bottom tier-sorta like OP's post here.

Those players would say this sucks I'm always bottom tier wouldn't they?

Just some objective thinking for ya.

Then you'd have days where you sit down, and are top tier most of the time.  

The only way you get a relatively accurate representation of statistics is by increasing the sample size.  There will always be discrepancies in a small sample.  Granted you can actually get too large a sample size, but that's not a conversation for this thread.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×