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KnifeInUrNeck

Ranked T5 is horrible

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Now I sincerely hate to be that guy, but after the quality of play I’ve seen, I feel I have to. I apologize if this is the 50th post about this but I didn’t see any recent posts. That said, I feel that ranked at T5 is maybe one of the worst decisions I’ve seen regarding gameplay. Don’t get me wrong, I like playing at T5. Range is less so fights are closer which leads to less camping and more fighting. However, this also opens the doors to new or newish players that are nowhere near ready for competitive play. I’ve been playing this game off and on for years and I feel like I’m still learning something new every day. I’m no expert either but, honestly, bots would play better than many of the players I’m matched with or against. The matches are usually B.B. and DD heavy while light on the cruisers which requires the cruisers to be exceptional. I’ve seen cruisers rush the cap and get melted as if they were a DD or something. I’ve seen DDs abound the whole team to hunt a kill when the team desperately needs torp screen. 

  Now I understand T10 didn’t guarantee skill but it DID guarantee experience. Why not make two tiers? Is the player base so small that it wouldn’t work? Maybe. But based on the rewards I have zero incentive to A) play ranked as it is and B) rush to level my trees to T10 as there’s no real need for them since there’s not many T10 random matches. T10 ranked was one of the places I’d be excited to drive my Montana.  Not to mention how toxic it is for new players to be matched with veterans. It’s brutal man. The idea was sound in practice but if there isn’t proper skill based matchmaking it’s an absolute crapshow. I wasn’t super excited before but now I have zero motivation to participate. But hey, I’m just one person and what do I know?

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2 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

 However, this also opens the doors to new or newish players that are nowhere near ready for competitive play.

This was the intended purpose of the event. 

Lower tier, lower reward, newer players. 

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In Russia we have this saying: Only bad dancers complain about their balls getting in the way.

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9 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

In Russia we have this saying: Only bad dancers complain about their balls getting in the way.

I have noticed from reading Dostoyevsky that some things don't translate well.

Or that Russians have a unique form of philosophy. 

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100% agreed. This kind of season is good to keep up interest among players, but really does see a drop in intelligent play.

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23 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

100% agreed. This kind of season is good to keep up interest among players, but really does see a drop in intelligent play.

It's a given that if you increase the number of players in ranked that you will see a decrease in smart play.  And since a major reason for this tier 5 Ranked Sprint season was to increase the number of players participating, it would have been foolish to expect anything other than a reduction in quality of play.

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43 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

B) rush to level my trees to T10 as there’s no real need for them since there’s not many T10 random matches.

What?

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This tier is surprisingly not that fun to play. I've given up on DD play. Its too much. Back to just clubbing in the Guilio. And even with the saved star games, its amazing how very little the rest of the team does...

 

Also Guilio is seriously OP. Kamikaze is kind of too. But held back by any competent dd on the other side. 

Edited by BlailBlerg

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16 hours ago, Crucis said:

It's a given that if you increase the number of players in ranked that you will see a decrease in smart play.  And since a major reason for this tier 5 Ranked Sprint season was to increase the number of players participating, it would have been foolish to expect anything other than a reduction in quality of play.

But it was still pretty fun.... I enjoyed  it most of the time. 

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4 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

This tier is surprisingly not that fun to play. I've given up on DD play. Its too much. Back to just clubbing in the Guilio. And even with the saved star games, its amazing how very little the rest of the team does...

 

Also Guilio is seriously OP. Kamikaze is kind of too. But held back by any competent dd on the other side. 

In my time in Sprint, I'm pretty certain that I saw every single tier 5 ship in the game in those battles.  And while there were a fair number of GCs, they were far from the only BBs played.  Ditto for the Kami/Fujins.  I saw a decent number of Gremy's, though not as many as the Kami's, probably due to the greater number of KamiFujins in the game compared to the Gremy.  (Also, from my personal experience, the Gremy seems to be a real skill hog to turn into that OP DD that's feared, whereas the KamiFujin mostly only needs 10 skill points to be strong.)

 

Side comment on the GC.  I think that it was a mistake to release the post-1930's reconstruction GC as a tier 5.  I'm not sure that it's quite good enough to be a tier 6.  OTOH, given how many old A hull BBs have been turned into premiums one tier lower than normal, the CG might have been a competitive tier 6 (particularly if it was given some soft stat buffs, if necessary).  I think that a proper tier 5 GC would have been a pre-1930's reconstruction version, that had a speed of around 21 kts and retained its original 5th turret.

 

 

 

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I honestly see worst play in the regular ranked season lol, but that mode is total garbage. 

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Just now, Taichunger said:

But it was still pretty fun.... I enjoyed  it most of the time. 

I completely agree, Tai.  I enjoyed Ranked Sprint.  One thing that some of these elitist veteran players, like the OP, forget is that in tier 5 6v6 (with divisions), as single very good player has a greater ability to carry a team than normal.  And that gets even more pronounced if you have a division of two good players.  Also, when there are a pretty fair number of weaker players, that also increases the ability of good players to carry.

Now, if everyone on both teams is pretty good, it gets a lot harder to carry because everyone is pretty good.  Mind you, at the same time, that probably means that the chances are greater that you'll see more challenging battles.  I guess it all comes down to what you as a player want.  And the reality is that you can't have everything.  Well, at least not if that "everything" has a number of mutually exclusive items in it.

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As a fairly inexperienced player, I say Ranked Tier 5 battles have been pretty fun, as well as eye opening in experience.   Players seem more patient, and fight more as a group than in normal random battles.  Also, a player is afforded fewer mistakes as the opposing team really seems to seize upon the moment to pummel the player making the mistake. 

 

As a player who needs to run into islands a lot less, I have been that pummeled player because opportunistic enemy DDs saw my error and gave me a batch of torpedos as my reward.  Also I'm still trying to figure out how to effectively angle my ship to deflect shots so there's more practical experience for me.  And because this is a tier 5 event, the lessons don't come nearly as expensive as when I played the last Ranked battles in my newish, still not elited Cleveland.

 

Now what I don't like about these Ranked battles are those players who get frustrated and bad mouth their teammates because their stars show them to be less than great.  There are also the players who congratulate the other team for winning because their own team wasn't equal to the task, to put it in nicer words.  IMO, at tier 5, players shouldn't be quite so serious as to needlessly rage in a battle from the get go, not that raging should ever have an excuse to happen.

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18 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

But it was still pretty fun.... I enjoyed  it most of the time. 

Yes it was. I think this was the most ranked matches I have ever played in a season, got to rank 5 two stars.

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I got to Rank 1 and felt it was rather relaxing and fun season of Ranked to play in. And even the the rewards were low, the 5,000 Coal was still quite helpful with my saving up Coal.

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22 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

I honestly see worst play in the regular ranked season lol, but that mode is total garbage. 

Upvote!

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This tier is kinda a mess, pretty much like T7 but not as much as T7.

 

At T5, except Kamikaze, I don't know what "good" DD you can play. Mutsuki is garbage, Minekaze is meh, Acasta is garbage... Nicholas isn't that great but she's probably the best pick among non premium T5 DD.

For cruiser, I guess Furutaka can work

Regarding BB, Oktober and GC are the top pick. Kongou, Konig and Iron Duke can probably defend themselve but I don't see them as good as the 2 mentioned before.

 

Well this is what happens when premium ship are stronger than silver ship. Unlike T8 or T6 where you can see some silver ship hold their ground against premium ship, T5 and 7 have broken ship that pretty much decides who win / who lose. WG could easily "fix" ranked by restricting them to silver ship only but it would reduce the profit they will make by selling premiums bundle a day before the season starts.

 

 

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I've seen no real difference in the quality of play versus normal Ranked. There are going to be tons of bad players in Ranked no matter what tier you use. 

This season was fun, short and a nice change of pace. I actually put in almost 30 battles when normally I'm done by 15 max. I know it's a pipe dream but if WG wants to ditch T10 Ranked entirely or move over to the Sprint format permanently (it could be a bit longer but just closer to Sprint than the horrific grind of normal Ranked) or both that would be great. Mix the tiers up. Do 6 or 7. Yes some tiers are unbalanced but so what? If you keep the seasons short and sweet like this it won't be the end of the world if a player doesn't have the meta ship. 

Edited by Rocketpacman

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26 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

This tier is kinda a mess, pretty much like T7 but not as much as T7.

 

At T5, except Kamikaze, I don't know what "good" DD you can play. Mutsuki is garbage, Minekaze is meh, Acasta is garbage... Nicholas isn't that great but she's probably the best pick among non premium T5 DD.

For cruiser, I guess Furutaka can work

Regarding BB, Oktober and GC are the top pick. Kongou, Konig and Iron Duke can probably defend themselve but I don't see them as good as the 2 mentioned before.

 

Well this is what happens when premium ship are stronger than silver ship. Unlike T8 or T6 where you can see some silver ship hold their ground against premium ship, T5 and 7 have broken ship that pretty much decides who win / who lose. WG could easily "fix" ranked by restricting them to silver ship only but it would reduce the profit they will make by selling premiums bundle a day before the season starts.

 

 

Don't forget that viking longboat and terror of enemy DDs that is Okhotnik. I won 80% of the ranked games I played in it, generally top scoring. Winning the DD fight wins the match, usually, something Okhotnik excels at.  Couple this with enough torps to blot out the waves and smaller maps to use them in, and you have a real game winner.  Weirdly T-22 seems to work OK if you know what you're doing. It can at least gun down Kami/Mine/Mutsuki and it's sneakier than everything else not named Okhotnik.  

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The only thing I can say is that you need to get good enough to carry your team.

Potatoes are not only on your team, they are also on the enemy team. You need  to carry if you are a good player.

Also the clan battles are tier 6 and are so much fun. tier 5 and tier 6 are free of RADAR WHICH IS BROKEN. so be happy

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Really? Man I found it to be very refreshing and fun. 

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I liked it much more than the regular ranked season. Much more variety, less camping and better team play. 

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3 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

This tier is surprisingly not that fun to play. I've given up on DD play. Its too much. Back to just clubbing in the Guilio...(snip)

Also Guilio is seriously OP. Kamikaze is kind of too. But held back by any competent dd on the other side. 

Saw more Kongo, Iron Duke, and Red October than GCs; also the occasional New York, (my best game in NY was the one where I got to devstrike a GC into oblivion.)

Give up on DD play?

@thegamefilmguruman just gave reasons not to. Saw many T-22s, and occasional Acastas, Stronk Russian canoe, GremyOPashy, and their tech tree comrade. Most of what I saw regularly were Nichs or Minekaze or its cousins.

I played 2 games in Pumpkin, and my last five to Rank out in Gremy.

3 hours ago, Taichunger said:

But it was still pretty fun.... I enjoyed  it most of the time. 

For once, yes. Especially when I finally gave up trying to finish in my Bogue, and went back to a ‘regular’ ship, (as if Gremyashy could ever be ‘regular.’)

3 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Yes it was. I think this was the most ranked matches I have ever played in a season, got to rank 5 two stars.

This; normally I just play the minimum needed to reach R15 and the season flag. The last few times, seven was the fewest I needed, and fifteen the most.

This Sprint I played thirty-eight games to Rank out.

3 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

At T5, except Kamikaze, I don't know what "good" DD you can play. Mutsuki is garbage, Minekaze is meh, Acasta is garbage... Nicholas isn't that great but she's probably the best pick among non premium T5 DD.

For cruiser, I guess Furutaka can work

Regarding BB, Oktober and GC are the top pick. Kongou, Konig and Iron Duke can probably defend themselve but I don't see them as good as the 2 mentioned before.

‘Good’ tree destroyers;

Nich; lots of torps, DFAA if someone brings a CV.

Mine, Pumpkin, Blueberry, Apple; lots of torp launchers, good concealment, acceptable guns if you know how to deal with the slow rotation.

Mutsuki; best potential concealment at tier; one of the meanest destroyer drivers I saw ran a Mut; I think I saw them ONCE the whole game, and they raised more hell than anyone else.

2 hours ago, lungiwear said:

Also the clan battles are tier 6 and are so much fun. tier 5 and tier 6 are free of RADAR WHICH IS BROKEN. so be happy

THIS^^^, so much this.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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  Well, even though it's not much of an accomplishment this sprint season, I can at least say I got to Rank 6, lol.

 Taters be darned,  we managed to win anyhow.  

  I was a touch disappointed when it quickly reverted back to standard PVP meta  (camp, n kite n snipe), but not surprised.   I really dislike playing that way, but when in Rome, right?   I was also kind of disappointed- but again not shocked- at how narrow the scope of "good" ships for it was.   I WAS surprised at just how few Kamakaze's I saw- I expected them to fill queues.

  The DD field was fairly wide open and diverse- and included ALL the DD's mentioned in the other posts, plus Gremmy, and even Podvoisky.   From what I saw, being halfway decent at DD was much more important than being in the "correct" ship.

  As for BB's, again, the crowd was spot on:  Cesar, Oktober,  and Kongo were the ships to play.  Konig, too perhaps but sightings were rare.   The rest were mostly also rans...   CV's were rare as hens teeth, so there was no point in playing Texas- unless you just like to be slow as hell and always trying to catch up.  (or getting smashed because you can't get away)  Bretagne, too.   The "accuracy" of those 2 was simply crippling in ships that slow and with traverse that slow.  You NEED to be able to hit when the opportunity strikes, and both ships let me down badly.  The popularity of the Kongos contributed heavily to the camping BB meta- it's the old IJN BB = sniper mindset, I think.  (when what was really needed was for it to don it's battlecruiser hat, and leverage that speed)

  Cruisers were nearly non-existent.  And I can't blame them- at tier 5, they're all insanely squishy, and still mere shadows of what cruisers will become.   Furry Taco is about the best of them for this- but when you're the only cruiser, and your BB's hide in the back...   The large selection of good and fun to play DD's and BB's at this tier kinda made the BB/DD meta inevitable.

  I was happy we got something other than tier 8, this time.   3 seasons in a row was enough!

 

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