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Your_Ship_Is_On_Fire

Does CV rework include AP bombs?

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Because, I really don't think its fair being able to do this to both BBs and CAs. There was no amount of wiggle that could save me from this. The Midway just waited out my defensive fire and came back.

 

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Edited by Your_Ship_Is_On_Fire

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1 minute ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Good CV players will get you one way or another.

Cuz this game is all about damage you cant avoid...

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If a Carriers are cancer than AP bombs are Uranium 235 dipped in Ebola. I've seen BBs nuked by AP Carriers at the start of the match and the poor ship didn't have a chance to do any damage. AP Bombs need to be removed. 

 

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AP bombs are well balanced in the rework yes. 

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At least on the tier 6 CV's in the test, The HE bombs were more useful than the AP bombs. Even Citadels were disappointing. At least the HE bombs might cause fires.

I think the AP bombs and Deep water torpedoes in the test were just a way to punish IJN captains on test with needless ways of stopping them from even hurting DD's.

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yes, it includes AP bombs... just for some reason the IJN currently have access to them in the rework server from what I can tell 

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52 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

I've seen BBs nuked by AP Carriers at the start of the match and the poor ship didn't have a chance to do any damage. AP Bombs need to be removed.

What, you mean like DDs who get killed at the start of a match from radar / plane spotting and BB AP? Or cruisers who get devstruck after only being spotted for a second?

AP bombs should not be effective against cruisers, but they should stay effective and be more effective against their priority target, BBs.

CV is the hard counter to BB for a reason, stop crying about it.

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1 hour ago, The_Painted_Target said:

What, you mean like DDs who get killed at the start of a match from radar / plane spotting and BB AP? Or cruisers who get devstruck after only being spotted for a second?

AP bombs should not be effective against cruisers, but they should stay effective and be more effective against their priority target, BBs.

CV is the hard counter to BB for a reason, stop crying about it.

CVs are a hard counter to everything, not just BBs. 

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1 hour ago, NeoRussia said:

AP bombs are well balanced in the rework yes. 

I saw the opposite. Just repeated runs with multiple citadels.

 

Either way WG stated they were not yet testing balance, just functionality.

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1 hour ago, The_Painted_Target said:

What, you mean like DDs who get killed at the start of a match from radar / plane spotting and BB AP? Or cruisers who get devstruck after only being spotted for a second?

AP bombs should not be effective against cruisers, but they should stay effective and be more effective against their priority target, BBs.

CV is the hard counter to BB for a reason, stop crying about it.

No its not like any of the above. Dev strikes and DD blaps involve victim error/shooter skill. AP bombs involve neither. They are pure cancer, no fun at all. I cant even imagine the kind of mind that could think such cancerous garbage is good for the game.

 

 

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7 hours ago, KnightFandragon said:

Cuz this game is all about damage you cant avoid...

Well 63 000 tonne battleship with a max speed of 28 knts is not expected to be able to avoid dmg from 300+ knt airplanes. But players do have the ability to mitigate dmg, to prevent excessive dmg, via both their AA and their manouvre (vs dive bombs, don't let the enemy approach from the bow or the stern).

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The AP bombs in the rework are actually really interesting.

You need to manually do the approach, and it's not easy. Dodging target is more difficult. No more RNG, but much skill. Also it rewards hitting specific sections of the ship.

I think the core mechanics are really promising, and much better than the current bombs (possibly devastating but all RNG and no skill). You can tune many parameters there -- for example, bomb reticle bloom if you need to alter your approach, bomb damage, bomb penetration -- until a good balance is reached.

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7 hours ago, The_Painted_Target said:

What, you mean like DDs who get killed at the start of a match from radar / plane spotting and BB AP? Or cruisers who get devstruck after only being spotted for a second?

AP bombs should not be effective against cruisers, but they should stay effective and be more effective against their priority target, BBs.

CV is the hard counter to BB for a reason, stop crying about it.

With Radar I know I can avoid the ships who carry it. I also know not to park my self broadside in a smoke screen when a Radar ship could be near. I even have confidence in my dodging ability to avoid most of the shell that come my way when the Radar is switched on. 

As a Cruisers I understand the need to protect my broadside, to try and take BB AP on the angled Belt Armor and make my self hard to hit by using those WASD Haxs. 

These are all things I can do to deal with the hard counter for the ship I'm driving. 

However, I have see team mates use AP bombs and been on the receiving end of AP bombs. I know how easy it is for a good player to nuke another ship like they are being judge from the sky and there is no counter play for the victim. AP bombs with small drop circles are as bad as Full HP Detonations.  

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Yes.

AP bombs were removed from the USN CVs and given to the IJN CVs because the IJN having better TBs requires better DBs as well because "balance."

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I don't believe anything I saw in the rework test was nearly final..  only testing 2 T6 CVs and  2 T10(?) Just seemed more  like a test of mechanics to me?   They clearly stated that nothing was balanced and that was evident from what I saw.    Any answer at this point about CV rework would likely be highly speculative...   

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1 hour ago, RA6E_ said:

I don't believe anything I saw in the rework test was nearly final..  only testing 2 T6 CVs and  2 T10(?) Just seemed more  like a test of mechanics to me?   They clearly stated that nothing was balanced and that was evident from what I saw.    Any answer at this point about CV rework would likely be highly speculative...   

To add to this, they are testing gameplay right now to make sure mechanics actually work. They aren't even close to the balancing stage at this point. 

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4 hours ago, RedSeaBear said:

However, I have see team mates use AP bombs and been on the receiving end of AP bombs. I know how easy it is for a good player to nuke another ship like they are being judge from the sky and there is no counter play for the victim. AP bombs with small drop circles are as bad as Full HP Detonations.  

You have 15 CV games. You haven't used AP bombs.

 

11 hours ago, Taichunger said:

No its not like any of the above. Dev strikes and DD blaps involve victim error/shooter skill. AP bombs involve neither. They are pure cancer, no fun at all. I cant even imagine the kind of mind that could think such cancerous garbage is good for the game.

You have zero CV games. You haven't used AP bombs.

 

11 hours ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

CVs are a hard counter to everything, not just BBs. 

You have 100 games in the lexington, and it doesn't look like you're using the AP bombs. I suggest them.

People with near zero experience in CVs and the AP bombs should not be complaining about them. You only see the instances where you are out of position, alone, ie making a huge mistake knowing there is an enemy CV.

I've got a midway, I've used AP bombs since lexington. I know what they can and can't do. I've also played ground targets up to tT10 in ~7-8 lines. I know how to avoid AP bombs by grouping or speccing for AA. On top of the lack of carriers at high tier because of absolute nonsense AA RNG on ships like Mino, Conq, Repu, Worcester, or even the AA DDs, your one game in 10 or more where you screw up and get killed is entirely your fault.

Go grind CV and tell me it's an easy stomp whenever you roll out the AP bombs and can guarantee a kill 100% of the times you strike something. Ignore the squads lost by enemy fighters, AA builds, and time wasted where HE bombs could have killed a better target.

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Just now, The_Painted_Target said:

You have 15 CV games. You haven't used AP bombs.

 

You have zero CV games. You haven't used AP bombs.

 

You have 100 games in the lexington, and it doesn't look like you're using the AP bombs. I suggest them.

People with near zero experience in CVs and the AP bombs should not be complaining about them. You only see the instances where you are out of position, alone, ie making a huge mistake knowing there is an enemy CV.

I've got a midway, I've used AP bombs since lexington. I know what they can and can't do. I've also played ground targets up to tT10 in ~7-8 lines. I know how to avoid AP bombs by grouping or speccing for AA. On top of the lack of carriers at high tier because of absolute nonsense AA RNG on ships like Mino, Conq, Repu, Worcester, or even the AA DDs, your one game in 10 or more where you screw up and get killed is entirely your fault.

Go grind CV and tell me it's an easy stomp whenever you roll out the AP bombs and can guarantee a kill 100% of the times you strike something. Ignore the squads lost by enemy fighters, AA builds, and time wasted where HE bombs could have killed a better target.

I haven't played the Lexington since i finished grinding it a LONG time ago.(maybe a year and a half ago)  That is Predating the US CV changes that came a year ago.(AP bombs being added to the line)  Even the vast majority of my Essex games are pre AP bombs. I put off CVs until the rework. I didn't feel it was worth the time or effort if they are going to be redone, or the credits to buy said ships.  Especially if the rework turns out to be bad.  

 

and my post had nothing to do about whether AP bombs were balanced or not.  I simply stated that CVs hard counter every type of ship in the game.  Which they do.  that becomes very apparent when you get a CV who knows what they are doing(manual drop and strafing) vs one that doesnt.

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36 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

I haven't played the Lexington since i finished grinding it a LONG time ago.(maybe a year and a half ago)  That is Predating the US CV changes that came a year ago.(AP bombs being added to the line)  Even the vast majority of my Essex games are pre AP bombs. I put off CVs until the rework. I didn't feel it was worth the time or effort if they are going to be redone, or the credits to buy said ships.  Especially if the rework turns out to be bad.  

 

and my post had nothing to do about whether AP bombs were balanced or not.  I simply stated that CVs hard counter every type of ship in the game.  Which they do.  that becomes very apparent when you get a CV who knows what they are doing(manual drop and strafing) vs one that doesnt.

The bit about balance was more directed towards the other two quoted.

I see nothing wrong with rewarding a CV player for playing well.

The GZ brand of AP bombs need to go, I agree. Lining up the perfect hit with USN bombs (not hitting a gun, avoiding superstructure, etc) is harder to do and less rewarding than the circle drop.

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8 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

The bit about balance was more directed towards the other two quoted.

I see nothing wrong with rewarding a CV player for playing well.

The GZ brand of AP bombs need to go, I agree. Lining up the perfect hit with USN bombs (not hitting a gun, avoiding superstructure, etc) is harder to do and less rewarding than the circle drop.

I make no claim to being a CV player, but from what I've seen and experienced it's not even the GZ's bombs that are the issue. It's the circular drop pattern. You cant angle against it. A decent player doesnt need to line up a strike. Straight in and drop.

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@The_Painted_Target You are correct that I don't play Carriers. My only Carrier experience was using the Tier 4s for mission specific tasks, generally in Coop battles. I do own a Saipan that I've used in Operations and I'm not brave enough to make people suffer while I learn to use the Enterprise in my port. [To be clear I didn't buy these two premium flat tops I won them in a contest].

Now I have seen Div Mates do evil things with GrafZep and Midway AP bombs. And I've also been on the receiving end of GZ and Midway AP bombs. I've lost AA cruisers that had their Defensive Fire Up because a Carrier just wants me dead. I'm not alone in thinking that getting out right nuked by a CV isn't fun. WG has stated that one of the issues they are looking at addressing is Carriers being able to nuke an enemy. Why? Because the player base doesn't like it.  

I find bad carrier players to be terrible and good Carrier players to be borderline cancer [depend on which side of the team they are on from you]. AP bombs just make a bad situation a tiny bit worst. I do hope WG finds a way to make carriers fun for every one while not giving a giant hand of doom to the good players.  

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31 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

I make no claim to being a CV player, but from what I've seen and experienced it's not even the GZ's bombs that are the issue. It's the circular drop pattern. You cant angle against it. A decent player doesnt need to line up a strike. Straight in and drop.

GZ bombs pen easier on targets. There are some ships where GZ bombs will citadel that USN bombs will overpen. There are some ships that GZ bombs will pen where USN bombs will shatter.

GZ bombs are exceptionally forgiving to use.

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