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NovaAdmiralis

Halp with German BBs plz

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Greetings,

 

Even though I have reached to tier 8, I still don't know where to go on maps. People keep saying "You need to go close qaurters combat",  and I agree. However, when I try to go close to the enemy, I always get destroyed. I love this game so much though, and want to get better at it. 

I try my best in Bismarck, its a great ships and I enjoy it (even when I keep dying), but I still don't know where to go on maps and where to position myself. Any tips and tricks with positioning and movement on maps?

Thanks for readin this post :D

 

Edit: I wanted to write more

Edited by NovaAdmiralis
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There is a lot you can do and a lot you can learn. You have to pick your battles with BBs but I would recommend watching youtube on Bismarck play.  

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Try to find a happy middle ground between staying back and pushing up. Stay at mid range and try to support your destroyers from there until the teams are thinned out a bit and you can push on isolated targets. German battleships are very good at pushing people's faces in at close range, but push too early and you're just so much food.

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Personally, I hate Bismarck. The meta for me just didn't click well with her, as her gunnery and gunnery is built around brawling, but that simply isn't the current T8+ meta. I actually sold Bismarck and went back to the Gneisenau. I like her a lot more than Bismarck. Better AA, better maneuverability, better meta, etc. And 15" guns still work T7 and below, cuz they can overmatch. T8 and they are getting long in the tooth. It's up to you, but constantly trying to play Bisko in T9-10 games just wasn't fun for me. So in order to keep the game fun, I went back to playing the ships I had fun in. Trust me, I was in the same situation you are.

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Protip: don't play them. They are trash in the current meta, at least at T8+. The current high tier meta is: HE spam from behind islands while DDs and CLs smoke/radar each other to death over the caps, while BBs snipe out of said DD and CLs range. The kind of meta that is in no way conducive to brawling, which is how German BBs are meant to be played. The only time German BBs ever pull their own weight is if the game drags on and BBs are forced to move into close range and start slugging it out over the caps. But on maps like Okinawa? Tears of the Desert? You're basically useless.

Edited by goldeagle1123

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Just now, goldeagle1123 said:

Protip: don't play them. They are trash in the current meta. The current meta is HE spam from behind islands while DDs and CLs smoke/radar each other to death over the caps, while BBs snipe out of said DD and CLs range. The kind of meta that is in no way condusive to brawling, which is how German BBs are meant to be played. The only German BBs ever pull their own weight is if the game drags on and BBs are forced to move into close range and start slugging it out over the caps. But on maps like Okinawa? Tears of the Desert? You're basically useless.

They're trash T8+. T7 and below they do fine. Even I can make the Scharn sisters work well.

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You have 713 battles but trying to run a Bismark - go back a couple tiers and work on the basics - especially positioning.  While you do that - look up Notser/iChase videos on the Bismark and how to play.  You also need opt learn the maps and where not to go with the Bis.

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3 minutes ago, 7_3_PowerStroke said:

They're trash T8+. T7 and below they do fine. Even I can make the Scharn sisters work well.

Edited my comment. Literally added "T8+" right after. Yeah they do fine below 8, because the gameplay there doesn't descend into a smoke - radar meta game with everybody spamming HE from maximum range, which for cruisers at T9/10 can be 19-20km.

Edited by goldeagle1123

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Just now, CylonRed said:

You have 713 battles but trying to run a Bismark - go back a couple tiers and work on the basics - especially positioning.  While you do that - look up Notser/iChase videos on the Bismark and how to play.  You also need opt learn the maps and where not to go with the Bis.

The issue with many of those videos is that they're old, and therefore aren't good examples of how the current meta treats German BB's.

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Just now, goldeagle1123 said:

Edited my comment. Literally added "T8+" right after. Yeah they do fine below 8, because the gameplay there doesn't descend into a smoke - radar meta game with everybody spamming HE from maximum range.

Exactly. 

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Battleships are the whipping boys of the current HE Spam meta. German BB's are even worse, since they're purpose built to feed themselves to island-camping HE spammers and invisible torpedo boats get into closer range and push forward like the loudest screaming players on forum think battleships should always do.

Edited by Highlord

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37 minutes ago, NovaAdmiralis said:

Greetings,

 

Even though I have reached to tier 8, I still don't know where to go on maps. People keep saying "You need to go close qaurters combat",  and I agree. However, when I try to go close to the enemy, I always get destroyed. I love this game so much though, and want to get better at it. 

I try my best in Bismarck, its a great ships and I enjoy it (even when I keep dying), but I still don't know where to go on maps and where to position myself. Any tips and tricks with positioning and movement on maps?

Thanks for readin this post :D

 

Edit: I wanted to write more

Normally, in the past, I'd have a long, drawn out post to help you in this.  But recently I'm reducing it to 3 simple things to help you in this, so that it's not buried in a post that looks like a college paper.

 

1.  Get close enough so that you can get higher hit % gun salvos, but not so close that you are constantly dodging DD torpedoes and getting focus fired by 5+ ships.  This is a delicate balancing act.

 

2.  The utmost, highest priority are shooting at Destroyers that your teammates find.  Teams that lose their DDs first tend to struggle badly for a win, so help your team's DDs by shooting at what they find.  You help kill or drive off the DDs that oppose your own DDs, they will carve a way to victory.  It's everyone's job to help their DDs out so that they can "spring loose" and run wild.  Also, shoot at any Radar Cruisers that look like they're trying to creep up to engage your DDs.

 

3.  Once the enemy group you're fighting with has been sufficiently thinned out, especially if their DDs are dead, only then do you push.

===

You need a balance of Patience and Aggression.  You want the aggression to get into favorable gun ranges, push when it's time, etc.  But you need Patience so that you do not put your ship on a silver platter for the enemy, to prevent reckless use of the ship.  When you play Bismarck in Tier X matches, this becomes even more important.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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14 minutes ago, Lert said:

Try to find a happy middle ground between staying back and pushing up. Stay at mid range and try to support your destroyers from there until the teams are thinned out a bit and you can push on isolated targets. German battleships are very good at pushing people's faces in at close range, but push too early and you're just so much food.

^^^ This.

I play Bismarck regularly on the EU server with a full secondary build. Early to mid-game I try to pace my moves to keep my detectability at about the same point as the max spotting range of my nearest  ally up ahead, so if the DD or cruiser lights something up I can get in some licks and hopefully draw fire off the spotter, and still be able to bug out if it gets too hot. The cruisers appreciate the support.

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9 minutes ago, 7_3_PowerStroke said:

The issue with many of those videos is that they're old, and therefore aren't good examples of how the current meta treats German BB's.

When he has no good idea - they still have decent info on them.  Think he needs to learn the basics of the ship.

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Watch some YouTube videos on play. That will help you get the feeling for correct distance and how to use cover.

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42 minutes ago, NovaAdmiralis said:

Greetings,

 

Even though I have reached to tier 8, I still don't know where to go on maps. People keep saying "You need to go close qaurters combat",  and I agree. However, when I try to go close to the enemy, I always get destroyed. I love this game so much though, and want to get better at it. 

I try my best in Bismarck, its a great ships and I enjoy it (even when I keep dying), but I still don't know where to go on maps and where to position myself. Any tips and tricks with positioning and movement on maps?

Thanks for readin this post :D

 

Edit: I wanted to write more

Close Quarters Combat...does not mean to YOLO... i hope you know the difference.  

you need to be a little bit more sneaky when trying to get in close.  My Best CQ ship is Tirpitz.  just as as crazy as Bismark secondaries...but with torps...which make Tirp more deadly at close combat.  but regardless...you do not YOLO...take your time...cause they will not go to you from the start...try to stay covered by the island...then when they are in 2nd range range let the fire begin. :Smile_izmena:

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30 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

When he has no good idea - they still have decent info on them.  Think he needs to learn the basics of the ship.

fair enough.

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Generally, the balancing act for me is around 14-15 km...far enough away that you are not super appetizing.  Your guns will struggle at any range, but they are flat enough shooting to hit reliably at this range IF you get a good RNG roll.  It's the most frustrating thing about the KM BB to me...the main battery is just so lackluster.  If you want to live dangerously, you can dip down to 12km IF you have a reliable exit or some terrain to cover your escape.  Any time you cannot "go dark" you are at risk...because KM BB love to hover damage.  Protected citadel, sure, but they get torn up just the same.

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It was my first T8. I was horrified how terrible it felt to be bottom tier all the time, and feel impotent. Learned the trick is just to stay alive from early/mid game staying with your fleet using them to screen and helping with your hydro, then close in and mop up low health targets in the late game. If you have manual secondaries it helps, i didn't at first. It was terrible. Honestly I hardly ever play it anymore (especially now I have a Tirpitz). Bismarck just gets punished so so hard, especially if you have a lower skill captain.

Edited by HeathenForay
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Greetings,

 

Thank you all very much for posting and giving advice, criticisms, and whatnot! I will be taking all of your guys advices and implement it in my games. 

 

Once more, thank you all so much! GHLF Y'all!

 

 

Edited by NovaAdmiralis
Juuust double checkin

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As with any BB, don't push early unless your entire team/flank are steam rolling that way.

You can use islands to hold an area, but use the islands to limit fire coming in, but that you can fire out with primary guns or secondary.

One last thing, pop up a replay of your game to https://replayswows.com/

then the game can be reviewed and advise on positions can be properly relayed perhaps if you are open to more suggestions.

 

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Stay around the max range of your secondary , enough that hit the enemy and force them to move

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I kinda suck with German battleships, since I normally suicidally charge in when I play them, but it's mostly about finding opportunities to close the distance. If you can find a good opportunity to one-on-one another battleship at close range, always take it.

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20 hours ago, NovaAdmiralis said:

Greetings,

 

Even though I have reached to tier 8, I still don't know where to go on maps. People keep saying "You need to go close qaurters combat",  and I agree. However, when I try to go close to the enemy, I always get destroyed. I love this game so much though, and want to get better at it. 

I try my best in Bismarck, its a great ships and I enjoy it (even when I keep dying), but I still don't know where to go on maps and where to position myself. Any tips and tricks with positioning and movement on maps?

Thanks for readin this post :D

 

Edit: I wanted to write more

Don't get too close too early.  Plan on moving in more during the midgame.  Watch out for DDs and especially for cruisers hiding behind islands where you can't shoot them.  Outflank those cruisers, don't charge them.

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Look for @UrPeaceKeeper on YouTube.  The "how to" vids may be a bit outdated but there's still some very good information to be gleaned from them. Any time I get a new ship I'm hitting his channel to find one of the "how to play ..." videos. Still hasn't helped my DD and CL play much, but I still learn a lot.

 

Edited by Tecelote
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