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General_Strom

JUST LIKE WOT WITH TIER 8

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WHY does wargaming have such a hatred of tier 8?  Always fighting out gunned out skilled by tier 9s and 10s.  WoT does it now WoWs is doing it.  IT IS NOT fun playing tier 8 as it is 95% of the time just being fodder for the higher levels.   Lots and I mean Lots of WoT player have left WoT because of this problem.  I used to love tier 8 they were the most play tier I used.  Now they just disgust me with this company.  I will no longer grind this horrible tier.   I play to have fun.  Dying like this all the time has gotten old.  Maybe I am just burned out with the poor MM for tier 8  in WoT, but so far this game at tier 8 is proving to be the same frustrating game.

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3 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

WHY does wargaming have such a hatred of tier 8?  Always fighting out gunned out skilled by tier 9s and 10s.  WoT does it now WoWs is doing it.  IT IS NOT fun playing tier 8 as it is 95% of the time just being fodder for the higher levels.   Lots and I mean Lots of WoT player have left WoT because of this problem.  I used to love tier 8 they were the most play tier I used.  Now they just disgust me with this company.  I will no longer grind this horrible tier.   I play to have fun.  Dying like this all the time has gotten old.  Maybe I am just burned out with the poor MM for tier 8  in WoT, but so far this game at tier 8 is proving to be the same frustrating game.

Wargaming (specifically Lesta Studios) have heard the concerns and they're looking into Matchmaking changes.  Let's just hope their design solution isn't some version of the 3/5/7 Matchmaking that has a stranglehold on World of Tanks. 

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There is an old saying, "if you can't beat them, join them".  In other words, you could finish grinding up to tier 10.  Not a perfect solution, but with the state of the game as it is, it's one of the few I have.

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1 minute ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Wargaming (specifically Lesta Studios) have heard the concerns and they're looking into Matchmaking changes.  Let's just hope their design solution isn't some version of the 3/5/7 Matchmaking that has a stranglehold on World of Tanks. 

God forbid they just make matchmaking +1.

But that would make the all-important Digital Fighting Elite at tier 10 wait more than seven seconds for a match, so we know that will never happen.

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1 minute ago, Highlord said:

God forbid they just make matchmaking +1.

But that would make the all-important Digital Fighting Elite at tier 10 wait more than seven seconds for a match, so we know that will never happen.

To my understanding, they are looking at implementing just that.  The problem will be concerns of tier IX becoming the new tier VIII and constantly getting screwed over among other things.  As if people didn't have reason enough to hate Seattle, Izumo, Ibuki, etc.

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I personally don't see a problem with tier 8s in a tier 10 battle. The problem I do see: the occurrence of matches that are tier 10, when I decide to play my tier 8 ships.

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I actually played some tier 8s last week with friend, by choice.  We usually play T10s, but it was nice to take out Kutuzov, Atago, Alabama, and Tirpitz.  It's not nearly as bad as tanks, I remember taking 112 for a game recently, and it was utterly useless on some of that new armor, premium rounds or not.  T8 warships can still have plenty of fun.

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11 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Wargaming (specifically Lesta Studios) have heard the concerns and they're looking into Matchmaking changes.  Let's just hope their design solution isn't some version of the 3/5/7 Matchmaking that has a stranglehold on World of Tanks. 

The issue isn't tier 8's in tier 10 matches it is too many tier 10's in those tier 10 matches, 7/5/3 might work with the MM creating single tier matches whenever a tier is over represented in the queue.

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I don't find it to be much of a problem...it's like being 2 tiers lower in any other battle.  Sometimes I'm in top tier, other times in bottom tier.  Have to take the bad with the good.

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7 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

I personally don't see a problem with tier 8s in a tier 10 battle. The problem I do see: the occurrence of matches that are tier 10, when I decide to play my tier 8 ships.

I do not have a problem per say. It is just frustrating when it is all the time.  If it was mixed up a lot then I would not have an issue.  But it happens all to high a percentage with MM therefore not making it fun.

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16 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

To my understanding, they are looking at implementing just that.  The problem will be concerns of tier IX becoming the new tier VIII and constantly getting screwed over among other things.  As if people didn't have reason enough to hate Seattle, Izumo, Ibuki, etc.

That's really good news. T9 is already largely a grindwall with a couple of exceptions like Yug and Alsace, so there's no point in worrying about it. But if T8 returns to the good old days, that would be good for WG's bottom line, and good for the game. No downside here. 

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25 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Wargaming (specifically Lesta Studios) have heard the concerns and they're looking into Matchmaking changes.  Let's just hope their design solution isn't some version of the 3/5/7 Matchmaking that has a stranglehold on World of Tanks. 

Can you explain to me what this 3/5/7 MM is in WoT?

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31 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Wargaming (specifically Lesta Studios) have heard the concerns and they're looking into Matchmaking changes.  Let's just hope their design solution isn't some version of the 3/5/7 Matchmaking that has a stranglehold on World of Tanks. 

They have been looking into it for years.  People were complaining about this in CBT.  WeeGee said they think the MM is currently fine.  They keep saying that it is fine, when in fact it isn't fine.  People have offered all kinds of solutions.  I even gave them a sorting algorithm to use, but still it isn't fine.  It isn't like filtering by weight is difficult, but they refuse to do it.  I dunno if lazy or stupid.

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The bring up a point made earlier about money... I'd be more apt to buy a T8 premium if I knew I wouldn't have to go to battle against T10 ships. I just got my first T8 after playing for ~4 months and it was a painful learning experience.

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12 minutes ago, DoIphin_Princess said:

Can you explain to me what this 3/5/7 MM is in WoT?

Yes, the Matchmaking tries to make teams with the following composition (keep in mind, World of Tanks has 15 vs 15 matchups instead of 12 vs 12 like in World of Warships)

  • Three vehicles are top tier.
  • Five vehicles are middle tier.
  • Seven vehicles are bottom tier.

If it cannot do this, then it makes the following:

  • Five vehicles are top tier
  • Ten vehicles are one tier lower.

The premise looks decent until you see it out in the real world.  In World of Warships case, tier VIII would constantly be dragged up to meet the large number of tier X players currently in the population -- worse than what we see in World of Warships currently.  World of Tanks has the further complication of still having a large number of premium vehicles out there with protected Matchmaking (they only see one tier higher normally).  These vehicles almost never end up top tier anymore due to the new matchmaking system which always provides favourable matchmaking to the higher tiers first.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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35 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

To my understanding, they are looking at implementing just that.  The problem will be concerns of tier IX becoming the new tier VIII and constantly getting screwed over among other things.  As if people didn't have reason enough to hate Seattle, Izumo, Ibuki, etc.

This isn't really that different than current MM.

 

This is what I hope WG adds..

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2 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Yes, the Matchmaking tries to make teams with the following composition (keep in mind, World of Tanks has 15 vs 15 matchups instead of 12 vs 12 like in World of Warships)

  • Three vehicles are top tier.
  • Five vehicles are middle tier.
  • Seven vehicles are bottom tier.

If it cannot do this, then it makes the following:

  • Five vehicles are top tier
  • Ten vehicles are one tier lower.

The premise looks decent until you see it out in the real world.  In World of Warships case, tier VIII would constantly be dragged up to meet the large number of tier X players currently in the population -- worse than what we see in World of Warships currently.  World of Tanks has the further complication of still having a large number of premium vehicles out there with protected Matchmaking (they only see one tier higher normally).  These vehicles almost never end up top tier anymore due to the new matchmaking system which always provides favourable matchmaking to the higher tiers first.

I absolutely hate this setup...one of the things I dislike about WOT.  I certainly hope they don't go this way.  That said, while the level of ship matters in WOWS, a ship of a lower tier can still damage an upper tier ship.  In WOT, there are many examples where the lower tier tank doesn't do any damage to the upper tier tank.

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2 minutes ago, __Dave said:

I absolutely hate this setup...one of the things I dislike about WOT.  I certainly hope they don't go this way.  That said, while the level of ship matters in WOWS, a ship of a lower tier can still damage an upper tier ship.  In WOT, there are many examples where the lower tier tank doesn't do any damage to the upper tier tank.

I am not a fan either.  It's one of the reasons I have not spent any time on World of Tanks in the last couple of years.

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47 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

WHY does wargaming have such a hatred of tier 8?  Always fighting out gunned out skilled by tier 9s and 10s.  WoT does it now WoWs is doing it.  IT IS NOT fun playing tier 8 as it is 95% of the time just being fodder for the higher levels.   Lots and I mean Lots of WoT player have left WoT because of this problem.  I used to love tier 8 they were the most play tier I used.  Now they just disgust me with this company.  I will no longer grind this horrible tier.   I play to have fun.  Dying like this all the time has gotten old.  Maybe I am just burned out with the poor MM for tier 8  in WoT, but so far this game at tier 8 is proving to be the same frustrating game.

Wows does not have a hatred for 8 .. it’s all about exposure marketing and what better way than to have 8s battle 10 ships just makes you want to move on up and get a 10 that is the method to there madness but it may be wearing a tad thin

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Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I am not a fan either.  It's one of the reasons I have not spent any time on World of Tanks in the last couple of years.

I'm torn on it. On the one hand, when I play T8 I'm normally in TX games anyways, so having less TXes sounds fun.

But the other side is you pretty much ALWAYS would be in TX games.  

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47 minutes ago, DreadRaybo said:

There is an old saying, "if you can't beat them, join them".  In other words, you could finish grinding up to tier 10.  Not a perfect solution, but with the state of the game as it is, it's one of the few I have.

That's meaningless to folks that have already ground to tier 10 madness who would like to have fun playing their tier 8 ships.

 

17 minutes ago, Green_Muggs said:

The bring up a point made earlier about money... I'd be more apt to buy a T8 premium if I knew I wouldn't have to go to battle against T10 ships. I just got my first T8 after playing for ~4 months and it was a painful learning experience.

Being endlessly dragged screaming and kicking into matches where I'm bottom tiered and outnumbered by tier 10s has closed my wallet to buying tier 8 anything.

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While we are at it Match maker should have some OPTIONS such as this...you may add your own options if you want...

This is just a idea and not any endorsement of any kind for or against. 

 

MM-Options.png

Edited by dionkraft
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My problem is tier X is pretty boring.   Yeah some good ship but most of us are burnt out of it.    Playing Tier 5 - 8 is fantastic!  Tiers 7-8 are my favorite.   Why?

  • Being mid tiers offers a HUGE variety of ships to come across
  • The power levels are not as severe - Yes you can still get dev struck just don't feel its as bad
  • There is not such vast power problems - DDs caught out by radar are screwed *as an example
  • Non-Tier X CVs do not delete as often - I love CV play in games (hate playing them).. but Tier X power is to much
  • More player variety - New and old I see a lot of skill ranges mid tier.  I find this more fun.   Its my biggest complaint about Clan battles - Many unexpected things happen in randoms at mid tier.. 
  • Premiums mid tier offer better unique play and not power play
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Ideally, the best solution is to grow the player base to the point where MM would naturally fill out most of the team of same tier ship with a sprinkle of +/-1 without additional MM rules and restrictions.

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5 minutes ago, dionkraft said:

While we are at it Match maker should have some OPTIONS such as this...you may add your own options if you want...

 

MM-Options.png

Now why would anyone consider a limit of only 10 points on Captains? It totally nullifies having 19 points to upgrade one's Captain to in the first place. Your proposal would mean that no one could ever use 19 point Captains. No one's going to accept that.

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