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Merlox

Secret AA monster of Tier 5.

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If you were thinking about the Texas, wrong! that's no secret! 

Spoiler

jtaXyIA.png

Let's talk about AA specc Kirov and compare it to the only close competitor, the Texas. (With BFT, AFT, and AA Module)

The Kirov (B) Hull has 15 AA guns in total.
9x1 37mm AA (62 damage at 4.6 KM) 
6x1 100mm DP (50 damage at 7.2 KM)

Texas:
44x1 20mm AA (190 damage at 2.9 KM)
4x10 40mm AA (191 damage at 5.1 KM)
10x1 76.2mm AA (34 damage at 5.1 KM)

Why is that so strong? This cruiser can take the Manual AA Fire perk, giving the Kirov 100 damage with 7.2 KM range. It is the *One of a very few ships (Rouxi pointed out)* tier 5 ship with not only 7.2km range, but can use Manual AA. Most tier 4-5 maps are small, so this covers a very large chunk of the map. It's not as extreme damaging as the Texas by any means, but this ship can provide amazing AA escort at this tier level.

Every one that has played tier 4-5 battles, you might notice that there is a high chance that you will run into a CV, and not a bad chance to run into 2 CVs. At this tier the CVs pretty much have no worries vs AA (Exception of Texas.... but they all know to stay very clear from this ship) So you can only imagine how game changing this ship can be when against CVs at this tier. 

Edited by Merlox
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The problem here is to get both MFCAA and AFT, you give up CE. If you also take CE, the fit is exceptionally gimped everywhere else.

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you might need a commander with lots of numbers near it to make it work i think. kirov NEEDS CE.

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4 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

you might need a commander with lots of numbers near it to make it work i think. kirov NEEDS CE.

 

Eh, you'd be surprised, with the not russian railguns, you can shoot over mountains just fine, play it like an US cruiser* almost. Gotta find them islands.

Edited by Merlox

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21 minutes ago, Merlox said:

It is the ONLY tier 5 ship with not only 7.2km range, but can use Manual AA

Kongo has 48dmg @ 7.2km on its 127mm guns.

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9 minutes ago, Rouxi said:

Kongo has 48dmg @ 7.2km on its 127mm guns.

I stand corrected then, I didn't grind the Japanese BB line. lol

Edited by Merlox

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Without the CE, Kirov can be seen from the moon, and with the Famous Russian paper thin armour at low tier, she will get pick off first. What does AA do when Kirov sunk?

Secondly, Kirov turn like a tank at the corner, even at dodging incoming torp from CV, she will at least eat 1.

Thirdly, her rail gun can shoot far, but unlike will be over the mountain like the USN cruiser. She will required to park far behind the island in order to gain that 45% elevation angle. Thus she will be getting hits in return.

 

She will be hunt and kill first. So not likely going to be game changing like you claim.

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4 minutes ago, ObiphanKenobi said:

Without the CE, Kirov can be seen from the moon, and with the Famous Russian paper thin armour at low tier, she will get pick off first. What does AA do when Kirov sunk?

Secondly, Kirov turn like a tank at the corner, even at dodging incoming torp from CV, she will at least eat 1.

Thirdly, her rail gun can shoot far, but unlike will be over the mountain like the USN cruiser. She will required to park far behind the island in order to gain that 45% elevation angle. Thus she will be getting hits in return.

 

She will be hunt and kill first. So not likely going to be game changing like you claim.

Welp. I'm playing her at the moment. With the current build and strategy i'm doing pretty well. constantly shooting behind an island, having good AA for any planes. I'm not sure if many people attempted to play the Kirov like I did or not. But her weak armor is the reason why I tried this style. Just sharing what is working. 

Also I wouldn't call her gun a rail gun at all. it's 800 ms. A far cry from the 920ms that the Molotov shoots or the 950ms that the buddy shoots. 

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The Texas is the flag bearer for T5 AA.  No CV really chooses that target and it's quite easy to spot.  Of course, the Kirov has the best cruiser AA at T5.  But, cruiser AA at tier 5 is pretty mediocre.  IMHO...the best surprise plane deleter at T5 is the AA-spec'd Nicolas.  It is the only ship at T5 with DFAA.  You can also sit in a cap, preferably behind an island, and smoke up while a hapless strike comes your way.  You keep your AA off until they are right on you and then you pop DFAA and smoke up.  You are untouchable.  But, you can mow down those T5 planes with ease.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend this build for Sprint, since CV's really aren't numerous enough to justify it.  But, the point here is the Nicolas is the true AA impact ship at T5.  It's even an impact ship just equipping DFAA and having BFT as a captain skill.  Being in cap with smoke/DFAA ready is a serious problem for any T5 CV.  

The question one needs to ask is: Are there really folks running CV's in Sprint with no idea about AA values on ships?  The answer is yes.  Behold the tiny yet mighty AA platform Nicolas.  The Kirov certainly has some reach and punch.  But, it's hard to beat the invincible Nicolas AA ambush.  It feels like vengeance...

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7 minutes ago, Merlox said:

Just sharing what is working.

Would you like to go here and share with other

 

 

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TX, Bretagne, GC, and OR are much, much better choices for AA at T5 than Kirov is. For that matter, so is Konig. Kirov needs to use mods and skills to keep her alive long enough for her guns to work their magic. Fully spec-ing her for AA is a complete waste of the ship. The only low tier cruiser worth an AA build is Yubari. (T5 and under.)

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2 hours ago, The_Painted_Target said:

The problem here is to get both MFCAA and AFT, you give up CE. If you also take CE, the fit is exceptionally gimped everywhere else.

you can have MFCAA and AFT and CE.

1. Priority, expert loader=2pts

2. Adrenaline=2pts

3. BFT=3pts

4. MFCAA, AFT, CE=12pts

total=19pts.

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Shhhhhhh

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, don't let the CV's know!

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5 minutes ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

you can have MFCAA and AFT and CE.

1. Priority, expert loader=2pts

2. Adrenaline=2pts

3. BFT=3pts

4. MFCAA, AFT, CE=12pts

total=19pts.

You also lack superintendant, demolition expert, expert marksman, or vigilance (all good on a cruiser if not better)

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Just now, The_Painted_Target said:

You also lack superintendant, demolition expert, expert marksman, or vigilance (all good on a cruiser if not better)

At tier 5, superintendent and vigilance aren't as important. No heals and limited hydro range.

Kirov has poor fire chance to begin with , only 13%. With Demo and flags you get 17%.

 

If the OP doesn't wish to run standard meta and be a flank runner, AA build is better... when CVs are present.

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1 minute ago, Cpt_Cupcake said:

At tier 5, superintendent and vigilance aren't as important. No heals and limited hydro range.

Kirov has poor fire chance to begin with , only 13%. With Demo and flags you get 17%.

 

If the OP doesn't wish to run standard meta and be a flank runner, AA build is better... when CVs are present.

That's my thoughts exactly. DE isn't going to do much with the 13 second reload. Super only gives one extra limited hydro. I have a unique commander with a german DD for vigilance type game play.

Reason why AA Kirov is so appealing to me is that tier 4 and 5 are the highest # of CV games. 100 dps at 7.2 km rips apart tier 4 and 5 CVs. 

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Or alternatively take Nicholas, because given that she has DFAA her dps at 7.2km is 127dps against Kirow's 110dps (you forgot the AA flag). That... is terror.

shot-18_05.21_03_20.50-0222.thumb.jpg.82c0784fdca10276e68af02eeaee0a10.jpg

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13 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Or alternatively take Nicholas, because given that she has DFAA her dps at 7.2km is 127dps against Kirow's 110dps (you forgot the AA flag). That... is terror.

shot-18_05.21_03_20.50-0222.thumb.jpg.82c0784fdca10276e68af02eeaee0a10.jpg

I really do need to make my Kidd's primary captain into a Nicholas. The ambush plane killer is always an amazing aspect. I am having some great luck with the Kirov AA though, it's nice having the constant dps and not trying to decide when to use one of few Defensive fires.

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The real AA monster at t5 is Konig with 174dmg @ 6.48km with BFT/AFT/AAM2/MAA/NES.

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26 minutes ago, Merlox said:

I really do need to make my Kidd's primary captain into a Nicholas. The ambush plane killer is always an amazing aspect. I am having some great luck with the Kirov AA though, it's nice having the constant dps and not trying to decide when to use one of few Defensive fires.

Fair point, though I like it that Nicholas is less prone to deletion and can always deploy a smokescreen to get out of the heat if needed. Also the captain skills BFT and AFT benefit the main guns, which is nice.

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I wouldn't get out of bed for 50dmg x6. Being "decent" at something doesn't make it a secret monster. I wouldn't even argue that being "decent" even makes it worth doing, and if that's the bar you're setting, then I don't think manual AA is worth taking at T5. Obviously Texas is strong only because of her exceptional short and mid-range auras.

 

Consider that one tier higher, the QE is doing almost four times the Kirov @7.2km. If you want to play a low-tier AA boat, then it has to be actually exceptional, because you will be [edited] by MM. If you get into a T7 game is your slightly above-average-for-T5 AA going to be more valuable than CE?

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Don't worry about CE. I don't use CE on lots of cruisers and I still do well with them. If it doesn't fit your style forget about it.

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8 hours ago, The_Painted_Target said:

If you also take CE, the fit is exceptionally gimped everywhere else.

What do you mean by this?

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5 hours ago, Rouxi said:

The real AA monster at t5 is Konig with 174dmg @ 6.48km with BFT/AFT/AAM2/MAA/NES.

Yeah I have done well in Konig with AA. Early on in my time playing I actually had stumbled into just how good Konig could be with AA after I had equipped BFT and AFT out of fear of DDs and being grateful for any help to AA guns. Well the Secondaries were helpful enough, but what was surprising over time was the power the Konig AA guns were putting out, sometimes even changing the course of the battle thanks to how many planes the unsuspecting enemy CV lost. :Smile_veryhappy:

Never went 100% AA build on Konig, but I can see how such a build could be viable. I just always was content with discouraging air attacks and dodging the ordnance that did get dropped. With CV rework I am keeping the full AA build idea open though.

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