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Sumwunskum

Premium carriers after the rework? (not about refunds)

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Just wondering if any, perhaps those that participated in the test, have any information or insight into how the current four premium carriers will retain their different play aspects to those in the line. I have the Kaga and Enterprise which use sub tier aircraft, larger hangar space, different torpedo patterns etc that define them amongst their same tier counterparts. Can't seem to find any info on how they will change. Curious about relevant captain skills too. Obviously dogfighting skill is obsolete. What also worries me is that many people will still expect carriers to provide air defence by flying over and spawning the new fighter consumable which seems to be the mindset of many players despite AA being a very large and very under utilised mechanic.

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the AA might change,the rework is still being tested,a lot need to be adressed. obviously the premium carriers will change too.

there are a lot of "what ifs" in game here

IF they keep that unlimited hangar,kaga and enterprise lose that advantage of big reserves

IF not,they might keep the hangar numbers,kaga and enterprise didn't lose that advantage.

 

IF they keep that "fighter" gimmick, Saipan lose the advantage

IF not,saipan retain the advantage.

 

 

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The changes are global and pretty much mandatory.

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We just don't know very much yet.

It seems like hangar space will be unlimited. With that, it seems the CV's will be more about modern the planes are, not about hangar size.

But, I imagine they could still play with how long the plane wave will take to re-equip. Say if you lose 4 out of 6 TB's, how long do you have to wait until that wave of 6 TB's is ready again? This could be a way to differentiate CV's with better/worse aircraft handling logistics.

With player-controlled fighter gone, Saipan does seem sure to lose that defining gimmick. And honestly that's a good thing (and I say this as a Saipan owner).

People hopefully adapt to CV's no longer giving them air cover. On the test server, I ran into some guy smashing the function keys for air cover. Maybe he was trolling.:cap_hmm:

 

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It really depends if they try and do everything all at once or release the rework in stages.  I suspect the former.  In that case, all four premium carriers (plus any others that are coming with the launch) need to be retested, rebalanced and reworked as needed prior to the CV event going live.  If they do the latter, then it may be a case where there's a waiting period and the premiums get re-released sequentially. 

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I wonder if we'll ever see an Ark Royal. Bi-Planes in tier 7/8 might be funny. 

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21 minutes ago, Snipereagle23 said:

I wonder if we'll ever see an Ark Royal. Bi-Planes in tier 7/8 might be funny. 

Yeah but any torpedo hit has a high chance of FUBAR'ing the rudder. :Smile_hiding:

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29 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It really depends if they try and do everything all at once or release the rework in stages.  I suspect the former.  In that case, all four premium carriers (plus any others that are coming with the launch) need to be retested, rebalanced and reworked as needed prior to the CV event going live.  If they do the latter, then it may be a case where there's a waiting period and the premiums get re-released sequentially. 

Thanks LWM :)

So I take it the premium CVs didn't make an appearance in the test. Still wondering if new captain skills did though. I am actually all for the new format in it making CV play more playable to the broader player base. I imagine the fighters/attack ac are first off the deck to spot/decap DDs with rockets?

The fighter consumable is still troubling. Many times as a CV player you are blamed for 'bringing' an enemy CV into the game and are seemingly expected to defend all other ships from air attack. I suppose that since very few CVs are seen in the upper tiers (my experience only) that few spec/equip to counter. Perhaps the good news is that US DDs will see a resurgence after they got hit by the smoke nerf. 

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5 minutes ago, Sumwunskum said:

Thanks LWM :)

So I take it the premium CVs didn't make an appearance in the test. Still wondering if new captain skills did though. I am actually all for the new format in it making CV play more playable to the broader player base. I imagine the fighters/attack ac are first off the deck to spot/decap DDs with rockets?

The fighter consumable is still troubling. Many times as a CV player you are blamed for 'bringing' an enemy CV into the game and are seemingly expected to defend all other ships from air attack. I suppose that since very few CVs are seen in the upper tiers (my experience only) that few spec/equip to counter. Perhaps the good news is that US DDs will see a resurgence after they got hit by the smoke nerf. 

There were no captains skill changes which is why I think they made the first point 20 million captains experience.

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Oh cheers Brushwolf :) Yes was very interested to see if they had altered captain skills.

Edited by Sumwunskum

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1 hour ago, Sumwunskum said:

Just wondering if any, perhaps those that participated in the test, have any information or insight into how the current four premium carriers will retain their different play aspects to those in the line. I have the Kaga and Enterprise which use sub tier aircraft, larger hangar space, different torpedo patterns etc that define them amongst their same tier counterparts. Can't seem to find any info on how they will change. Curious about relevant captain skills too. Obviously dogfighting skill is obsolete. What also worries me is that many people will still expect carriers to provide air defence by flying over and spawning the new fighter consumable which seems to be the mindset of many players despite AA being a very large and very under utilised mechanic.

No information in the rework or by the devs regarding what will differentiate the premium CVs from tech tree CVs.

No matter how fighters are handled, people will still complain that they aren't getting any air support.

3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

There were no captains skill changes which is why I think they made the first point 20 million captains experience.

There were changed commander skills in the rework.  From what I can remember, 2 of them involved the engine boost ability of planes

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2 minutes ago, Patton5150 said:

No information in the rework or by the devs regarding what will differentiate the premium CVs from tech tree CVs.

No matter how fighters are handled, people will still complain that they aren't getting any air support.

There were changed commander skills in the rework.  From what I can remember, 2 of them involved the engine boost ability of planes

The boost was a consumable as were the fighters.

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When I tested the Ryujo and the Ranger, there were differences in the number of aircraft per squad, the A6M2's on the Ryujo came 8 to a squad, Rangers F4F's came 6 to a squad with 2 aircraft making attacks in both cases. I could see WG messing with those numbers and the aircraft themselves to flavor the premium CV"s.

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1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

When I tested the Ryujo and the Ranger, there were differences in the number of aircraft per squad, the A6M2's on the Ryujo came 8 to a squad, Rangers F4F's came 6 to a squad with 2 aircraft making attacks in both cases. I could see WG messing with those numbers and the aircraft themselves to flavor the premium CV"s.

Interesting thanks for the info 

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The boost was a consumable as were the fighters.

There were commander skills that affected the boost.  One increased the amount of the boost.  Another renewed the boost for the last wave of a squadron.

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2 hours ago, Sumwunskum said:

Oh cheers Brushwolf :) Yes was very interested to see if they had altered captain skills.

They did, it looks like, but, they weren't testing them in the current test.  20 mil a point...

 

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1 hour ago, Patton5150 said:

There were commander skills that affected the boost.  One increased the amount of the boost.  Another renewed the boost for the last wave of a squadron.

 

40 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

They did, it looks like, but, they weren't testing them in the current test.  20 mil a point...

 

With a 20 mil cost I didn't even look at the skills. I would not take what was in the captains tree as gospel.

While there was no NDA what I saw was really an Alpha. There is a lot more work and time before this is ready for the live game.

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It is not yet time for a discussion on this as we have yet to see anything from the devblog on it. I am sure that this will be addressed.

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12 hours ago, Sumwunskum said:

Just wondering if any, perhaps those that participated in the test, have any information or insight into how the current four premium carriers will retain their different play aspects to those in the line. I have the Kaga and Enterprise which use sub tier aircraft, larger hangar space, different torpedo patterns etc that define them amongst their same tier counterparts. Can't seem to find any info on how they will change. Curious about relevant captain skills too. Obviously dogfighting skill is obsolete. What also worries me is that many people will still expect carriers to provide air defence by flying over and spawning the new fighter consumable which seems to be the mindset of many players despite AA being a very large and very under utilised mechanic.

At this point it is too early for anyone to say anything useful except for the fact that they won't operate like they do now. We can't even speculate because they are still refining gameplay. They haven't even touched balancing.

From what we've seen about the rework so far hangar space has no meaning nor do drop patterns or dogfighting. Everything about Enterprise and Kaga as they currently are will almost certainly change (except the models) but no one knows how at this point, even Wargaming. 

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I pretty much expect Kaga and Enterprise to have larger squadrons in the air to compensate for weaker planes, with Saipan being the opposite. Although I'm sure there will be further differences.

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12 hours ago, jss78 said:

People hopefully adapt to CV's no longer giving them air cover. On the test server, I ran into some guy smashing the function keys for air cover. Maybe he was trolling.:cap_hmm:

This is my biggest concern. The CV's primary job is to provide air cover. Ships without fighter support are sitting ducks for enemy bombers, see HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse.

With fighter support gone all the ships that have little to no AA of their own quickly become XP pinatas for CV drivers. The tier 4 CVs will become extremely dangerous, as there is very little at that tier to effect them. 

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8 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

With a 20 mil cost I didn't even look at the skills. I would not take what was in the captains tree as gospel.

While there was no NDA what I saw was really an Alpha. There is a lot more work and time before this is ready for the live game.

Oh, I agree.  I just looked for curiousity, not in any expectation that they were permanent or anything.

 

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32 minutes ago, Gen_Saris said:

This is my biggest concern. The CV's primary job is to provide air cover. Ships without fighter support are sitting ducks for enemy bombers, see HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse.

With fighter support gone all the ships that have little to no AA of their own quickly become XP pinatas for CV drivers. The tier 4 CVs will become extremely dangerous, as there is very little at that tier to effect them. 

But, unlike the current situation, whether you're facing Langley or Midway, Hosho or Hakuruyu, Enterprise or Kaga, you'll only face one attack at a time per carrier.  Not 3 squadrons grouped to obliterate you in one shot; and not the DBs coming to set you on fire, with TBs waiting just out of range for you to put out the fire out so they can flood you, all the while illuminating ships in other places on the map.

That's the big change.  One squadron in the air at a time.  Not 3 in the air like Langley or Hosho, nor 6 or 7 like Midway or Hakuruyu.

Unless the carrier's reasonably close to the battle, it's going to be a real stretch to set a fire and get the torpedo bombers back to the same target to try for a flood.  Also, if the carrier is illuminating a DD, they're not doing anything else.  They can rocket the DD, then hover around if they want, definitely, but, then they aren't doing *anything else*.  

Basically, the anti-air fighter mechanic won't be as useful as it was anyway.  If there's 2 carriers per side, there's only 2 'targets' for fighters anyway.

As far as AA, well, you don't have to worry about one carrier coming after you with 3 squadrons.  You'll see one,  and they can't all attack at once, either.  

It's going to be different, and yes, you will have to adjust your play somewhat, but, the worst excesses will go away, imo.

In the end, CVs will become another ship in the fleet with its pros and cons, not the all-seeing eye of Sauron.

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1 hour ago, mavfin87 said:

But, unlike the current situation, whether you're facing Langley or Midway, Hosho or Hakuruyu, Enterprise or Kaga, you'll only face one attack at a time per carrier.  Not 3 squadrons grouped to obliterate you in one shot; and not the DBs coming to set you on fire, with TBs waiting just out of range for you to put out the fire out so they can flood you, all the while illuminating ships in other places on the map.

That's the big change.  One squadron in the air at a time.  Not 3 in the air like Langley or Hosho, nor 6 or 7 like Midway or Hakuruyu.

Unless the carrier's reasonably close to the battle, it's going to be a real stretch to set a fire and get the torpedo bombers back to the same target to try for a flood.  Also, if the carrier is illuminating a DD, they're not doing anything else.  They can rocket the DD, then hover around if they want, definitely, but, then they aren't doing *anything else*.  

Basically, the anti-air fighter mechanic won't be as useful as it was anyway.  If there's 2 carriers per side, there's only 2 'targets' for fighters anyway.

As far as AA, well, you don't have to worry about one carrier coming after you with 3 squadrons.  You'll see one,  and they can't all attack at once, either.  

It's going to be different, and yes, you will have to adjust your play somewhat, but, the worst excesses will go away, imo.

In the end, CVs will become another ship in the fleet with its pros and cons, not the all-seeing eye of Sauron.

Yeah, I agree. Also we haven't seen the final balance of what AA is going to be -- the first test was merely gameplay mechanics. 

It's exactly as you say, the CV will be more similar to any other ship. We can't reliably evade incoming BB salvos either, and this is not perceived as a problem. Those new CV strikes will do broadly similar damage as a BB salvo, and come at similar intervals.

My only concern is WG's stated hope to remove limitations on number of CV's in a match. So what happens when three CV's in a division, coordinating on Teamspeak, decided that boy, that Musashi's looking lika a REALLY juicy target for a combined strike...

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