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Tigerspook

The Bayern is awful

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It would barely be adequate against Tier 5 opposition.  It's god-awful range and terrible dispersion makes it substandard on a good day.  Then add matchmaking that matches you up against tier 8 ships is great. I really like how they have ranges 4km or more than the Bayern.

 

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The shells it fires are rather lightweight and lose overall power very quickly over range, only good at short range really... At least the armour scheme supports it at close range.

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You can't get to close range with it without the Scharnhorts, Gneisenaus, Fusos, New Yorks, North Carolinas, Bismarks, Tirpitz, Julius Caesar, Okt Revolution, and every cruiser under the sun tearing you to pieces.

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You are trying to close too soon.

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The Bayern IMO is one of the best tier 6 battleships, second perhaps only to the Normandie, but she is indeed one of the harder battleship to master.

Bayern's strong suit lies within her solid armour scheme, concealment, and gun caliber, maybe her maneuverbility also. Everything else about the Bayern is either mediocre or completely uninteresting. 

Surviving in the Bayern should be easy. Her raw armor value numbes are great, there are very few weakspots or weird shapes in her hull, if there's a battering that the bayern cannot take, other tier 6 battleships would not survive either. Positioning and angling is a basic skill set that will requires a great deal of practicing, something that could take at least 1000 battles to have a grasp of, don't be upset about your current setbacks, everybody starts somewhere.

The guns on the bayern are, on paper, terrible. There's only 8 of them, the shells are light and have bad shell drag and weight characterics, while being only moderately accurate on a good day. The magic lies however, with the caliber of the guns: 380mm. And that is why this ship is awesome. You will need a lot of experience to get used to bad slow shells, and a vast knowledge of what the armor on every ship looks like. With good use, this allows Bayern to abuse the overmatch mechanics and have great confidence even against higher tier match makings, standing toe to toe against tier 7 battleships and tier 8 cruisers while other tier 6 battleships would've been helpless with their smaller guns.

Concleament is also a very nice cherry on top, with a 12.km~ concealment by default, this means the Bayern can be incredibly scary and elusive, allowing players to dictate fights, and such is quite unique for a tier 6 battleship.

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Bayern has been power creeped to death like other mid tier BBs. 

I agree about its armor...but who cares. You will be burnt to death long before it matters. An angled Bayern is a castrated Bayern. Basically you rely on mid tier cruisers being stupid and overly aggressive. 

For the record, 60% WR in mine, but the Fuso is the better boat, IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Scotty_SE said:

Bayern has been power creeped to death like other mid tier BBs. 

 

Since Bayern's release there has been only 2 more new comers, the Queen Elizabeth and the Normandie, one is not relevant, the other the Bayern can basically hard counter thanks to superior gun caliber, better firing angles and and armor scheme that is in practice impervious to smaller guns.

5 minutes ago, Scotty_SE said:

I agree about its armor...but who cares. You will be burnt to death long before it matters.

 

You have the best concealment while being one of the hardest tier 6 battleship to hit, if you got burned to death in Bayern none of the other tier 6 battleships would save you either.

7 minutes ago, Scotty_SE said:

An angled Bayern is a castrated Bayern.

 

I sincerely don't get this one. The firing angles on the Bayern is fairly average if not excellent, combined with her good speed and rudder shift, anglingwhile keeping your guns firing is a very easy thing to achieve

14 minutes ago, Scotty_SE said:

For the record, 60% WR in mine, but the Fuso is the better boat, IMO.

 

Try fight a Colorado, a KGV, a Duke of York, a Dunkerque, a Ashitaka or a Nagato. And tell me is Bayern better or is it not :Smile-_tongue:

(pssst....Normandie is better than Fuso btw...)

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Sounds like user error, I managed close to 70% WR and around 60k average damage when I ran through her on my way up the line. I liked her so much I bought her back and she still is one of my go to fun ships. Heres a review I did her a while back to give some more details

 

 

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I don't doubt that there's some user error. Maybe my build is bad and accentuates the problem. I also only have a 6 point captain.

What's this 12km concealment?  Mine is 15km or so,  which was about 100m less than my gun range before upgrade.

I am generally down 1/3 of my HPs before the battle really begins; as soon as I am spotted, which doesn't take long, fire comes in from all sides. It adds up. And no, I am not rushing into the middle of the map. This boat can be seen from edge to edge of most maps. You cannot angle against three directions. Much of the time the ships shooting at me, even the CAs, are outside my range. At this point,  I cannot escape; I am too slow to run.  I try to mitigate this by sticking like glue to a tier 7 or 8 BB. Doesn't really help as they eventually outrun me too.

And then there are the planes. There is nothing maneuverable about the Bayern when player-dropped torps happen.  You're going to take 2 of them.

Maybe it is simply standard practice to first kill the tier 6 ships when in a tier 8 match.

edit - oh man my stats are bad:

12 matches, 5 wins 7 losses. Not bad actually, one under .500.
I survived 2 matches
0 sinks
1 aircraft shot down
20k average damage

My gut tells me that I am playing too cautiously. If I am spotted over a 30km diameter area, why stay back? I'm only going to get picked apart anyway.  Cannot imagine how I'll survive the CAs if I do.  But then again, I am burning constantly as it is.

Edited by Tigerspook

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2 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

I don't doubt that there's some user error. Maybe my build is bad and accentuates the problem. I also only have a 6 point captain.

What's this 12km concealment?  Mine is 15km or so,  which was about 100m less than my gun range before upgrade.

I am generally down 1/3 of my HPs before the battle really begins; as soon as I am spotted, which doesn't take long, fire comes in from all sides. It adds up. And no, I am not rushing into the middle of the map. This boat can be seen from edge to edge of most maps. You cannot angle against three directions. Much of the time the ships shooting at me, even the CAs, are outside my range. At this point,  I cannot escape; I am too slow to run.  I try to mitigate this by sticking like glue to a tier 7 or 8 BB. Doesn't really help as they eventually outrun me too.

And then there are the planes. There is nothing maneuverable about the Bayern when player-dropped torps happen.  You're going to take 2 of them.

Maybe it is simply standard practice to first kill the tier 6 ships when in a tier 8 match.

edit - oh man my stats are bad:

12 matches, 5 wins 7 losses. Not bad actually, one under .500.
I survived 2 matches
0 sinks
1 aircraft shot down
20k average damage

My gut tells me that I am playing too cautiously. If I am spotted over a 30km diameter area, why stay back? I'm only going to get picked apart anyway.  Cannot imagine how I'll survive the CAs if I do.  But then again, I am burning constantly as it is.

Are you all stock or fully upgraded?

 

I see you have 6 point captain, what should do you have already?

 

What mods are running on her?

 

Can you post a replay or 2 to show us what your doing?

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I really enjoyed the Bayern. I great brawler with good guns for her tier. They hit hard, (granted they ever hit anything) and it feels like a tank.

That's just my opinion. I like the German lines in general, so maybe I'm just used to it. I have to admit, the Bayern grind was long and slow. 623086876_ScreenShot2018-08-31at4_27_39PM.thumb.png.dfaca5adaa2538d60b02604e68c87404.png

Please excuse the quality, I play on the GeForceNOW, which is an emulator for Mac. It changes the quality depending on your network speed. 

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Upgrades:

Main Arm I
Prop Mod 1 (probably because I salvaged the captain from a lower tier ship. DCS I could be better)
Aiming SYstems mod 1 (to improve the dispersion. Didn't want to add 5% to an already long reload but faster turrets could help)
Steering Gears 2 (because rudder shift)
 

Captain:

Expert Loader
Adrenaline Rush
Demo Expert
 

lol this is an early captain it would seem. I might have stolen him from a cruiser.

The ship is not fully upgraded. I don't have the propulsion or the B hull.  This stuff is really hard to get when you don't live too long and can't generate a lot of xp.

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4 minutes ago, Snipereagle23 said:

I really enjoyed the Bayern. I great brawler with good guns for her tier. They hit hard, (granted they ever hit anything) and it feels like a tank.

That's just my opinion. I like the German lines in general, so maybe I'm just used to it. I have to admit, the Bayern grind was long and slow. 623086876_ScreenShot2018-08-31at4_27_39PM.thumb.png.dfaca5adaa2538d60b02604e68c87404.png

Please excuse the quality, I play on the GeForceNOW, which is an emulator for Mac. It changes the quality depending on your network speed. 

Yep, I am sure that someone can always post a good game with a ship.  

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10 minutes ago, Tigerspook said:

Yep, I am sure that someone can always post a good game with a ship.  

My point is that it can excel in brawls and medium/close range engagements. Not a ship to fight at max range, but a nice all-purpose BB. 

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5 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

Captain:

Expert Loader
Adrenaline Rush
Demo Expert
 

lol this is an early captain it would seem. I might have stolen him from a cruiser.

The ship is not fully upgraded. I don't have the propulsion or the B hull.  This stuff is really hard to get when you don't live too long and can't generate a lot of xp.

 

That captain isn't helping, if you're able to I would personally switch Adrenaline Rush for Expert Marksman to help the sluggish turrets and swap Demo Expert (useless for BBs) and either take Basics of  Survivability or Superintendent to make her more tanky, BFT is also a good choice. 

 

Most if not all A hull ships in this game suck, before you judge the ship wait till you get her fully upgraded and get a couple matches with her upgraded before you pass judgment 

Edited by Psycodiver

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I slapped ASM1 for Bayern, got CE, threw on the XP camo, and had a blast with the ship.  It was over quickly.

 

F--k Secondary Spec on her.  Your Secondaries aren't that great to begin with compared to some threats you will see.  Load ASM1, tighten up her gunnery, and use her decent speed to put her in safe engagement ranges while still being able to hit.

 

With 380mm shells, you'll overmatch and penetrate every BB Tier VII and below.  The shells are devastating to Cruisers.  You got decent speed so you can actually be somewhere useful while the slow a.f. 21kt USN BBs are dragging their a--es.  More importantly, when sh*t is going downhill, you got speed to give you a chance of saving the ship, while the 21kt USN BBs are getting run over.

 

There's a Dunkerque, AZ, Warspite, Fuso, Nagato, Colorado, Caesar that thinks they can tank your 380mm?

giphy.webp

Prove them wrong!

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

There's a Dunkerque, AZ, Warspite, Fuso, Nagato, Colorado, Caesar that thinks they can tank your 380mm?

Bayern can't really hit them so it hardly matters.

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Hey

Bayern is a great T6 BB; the guns are great for brawling (it no sniper) and can tank great.  The AA is very decent for her teir, has decent speed, and can turn very well (not as good as Warspite but better than most).  I have run mine with a 12 point for a long time until I moved the the capt. up.  Once you get to know it, she is a great boat at T7.  When up-tired to T7 is falls off but then so does every other T6 BB, but it still has to be respected and can be used to finish off damaged ships.

 

Pete

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1 hour ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

Bayern is a great T6 BB; the guns are great for brawling (it no sniper) and can tank great.  The AA is very decent for her teir, has decent speed, and can turn very well (not as good as Warspite but better than most).  I have run mine with a 12 point for a long time until I moved the the capt. up.  Once you get to know it, she is a great boat at T7.  When up-tired to T7 is falls off but then so does every other T6 BB, but it still has to be respected and can be used to finish off damaged ships.

 

Pete

There is no circumstance - none - where anyone is getting into brawling range in the matches I am in 75% of the time - tier 8. I generally lose 1/4 to 1/3 my health in the first few minutes to enemies I cannot see.

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Tigerspook, I reserached it on saturday. Research hull B, is another ship... more concealment, more range, very much AA, more HP and spoting plane.

Really is another ship, resarch it and the judge it.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Feyevich said:

Tigerspook, I reserached it on saturday. Research hull B, is another ship... more concealment, more range, very much AA, more HP and spoting plane.

Really is another ship, resarch it and the judge it.

 

 

Trying to. I am 25% of the way to that hull now. Slow going. Running out of camo and flags.

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On 10/28/2018 at 6:59 PM, Tigerspook said:

Bayern can't really hit them so it hardly matters.

Slap on ASM1 and it's a totally different story and the gunnery is a lot more reliable :Smile_glasses:  Of course, most German BB players elect Secondary Build, so the BBs with few rifle counts like 6-8, suffer with the horrible dispersion.  I had a pleasant time with the guns, even against the higher tier BBs because they were 380s.

On 10/28/2018 at 9:27 PM, Tigerspook said:

There is no circumstance - none - where anyone is getting into brawling range in the matches I am in 75% of the time - tier 8. I generally lose 1/4 to 1/3 my health in the first few minutes to enemies I cannot see.

You're pushing up too far, too early in a match.

 

If you are having problems with Bayern, you're going to have one helluva time on Gneisenau.  I will await your rant thread when you reach her.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Right now, I am also in the Bayern. I am close to getting the Scharnhorst's  sister which I also have in port. In the Bayern, you have at least close to 8km to 10km to be effective. If a CA/CL shows a broadside, punish them. That also goes for BBs. Stay angled, you will bounce most 14 inch and below with ease. 

BTW, my Bayern is fully upgraded and she rocks. Take heart, like everyone else has posted B-hull will improve your chances of survival.

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I just got the B-hull.  Unfortunately I've been uptiered heavily since, so I don't know what it can really do for me. Angling certainly helps. It does shoot planes down pretty well.  So far I have not had the "skies open up and angels sing" moment.  Last game was a Trident and I was besieged by planes immediately, lost 1/3 my HPs to torps. Then every ship on the map shot at me, keeping me on fire.  I was unable to hurt a Hood significantly and started fleeing. I probably had 5 or 6 reds and plenty of carrier planes all over me.  Wasn't pretty.  But that's pretty much the Bayern.

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19 hours ago, Tigerspook said:

I just got the B-hull.  Unfortunately I've been uptiered heavily since, so I don't know what it can really do for me. Angling certainly helps. It does shoot planes down pretty well.  So far I have not had the "skies open up and angels sing" moment.  Last game was a Trident and I was besieged by planes immediately, lost 1/3 my HPs to torps. Then every ship on the map shot at me, keeping me on fire.  I was unable to hurt a Hood significantly and started fleeing. I probably had 5 or 6 reds and plenty of carrier planes all over me.  Wasn't pretty.  But that's pretty much the Bayern.

Well, if you are pulling that much firepower toward you, then the rest of your team should be able to clear some of them out or push objectives. Sometimes you just got to tank.

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