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ruar

Basically new person, questions about cruisers

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Played a long time ago, now I'm back and enjoying the game again.

 

Playing US cruisers because I want to get to the Baltimore class since my grandfather was on the St. Paul during the Korean war.  Right now I'm stuck in the Omaha.  Yes, I've read about the Omaha and how it's a mediocre ship that dies a lot.  Yes, I've died a lot.

 

Two things I've noticed though.  One, people expect me to be some kind of destroyer hunter/killer.  I don't understand why though.  Yeah, I've got a bunch of guns with a 7 second reload.  But good luck hitting destroyers at 10k range while they are jumping all over the place.  If it's early game I can't go after them because I get focus fired by everything under the sun and die in a few salvos.  If it's late game then I close the distance only to eat torps at close range before I can dodge.  Yes, I use hydroacustics when fighting DDs at close range.

Is there a trick to fighting destroyers in the Omaha?  Should I even be worried about the DDs?  I'm thinking I should just be assisting the BBs and focusing fire on whatever target is in range.

 

Second.  Is it just me or do destroyer torps need a longer arming range?  It kind of sucks trying to fight them at close range only to have them drop torps and I have no time to dodge.  And it's not like I can dictate the range since they are faster and turn better.  Sure, I can shoot at them, but that usually doesn't keep them out of close range.  I'm thinking that having the destroyers fire farther away and give cruisers a chance to maneuver a bit seems fair.  Then again, it could just be I haven't really played a good cruiser yet.

Edited by ruar
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When you get to tier 6 you can use scenarios to grind up to your desired ship. If you want to team up with experienced players and have or install Discord you can get much help. Here is a link https://discord.gg/bDuhMj

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25 minutes ago, ruar said:

One, people expect me to be some kind of destroyer hunter/killer.  I don't understand why though.

People expect all sorts of things from teammates in this game.  A few of those things are even realistic. :Smile_veryhappy:

With your Omaha's (lack of) armor and (lack of) concealment, hunting DDs isn't really something you can do unless or until there are no enemy battleships or even cruisers around to send you back to port with a single salvo.  In that light, the best thing you can really do during the first third or more of a battle is cozy up behind an island and work on burning down those BBs and CLs, ideally while positioned so that your hydro can provide early warning of torpedoes for your team's BBs.  In an open water scenario I'd normally say to do what's needed to make yourself a less appealing target than nearby teammates, but everyone loves to shoot at Omahas because highlight-reel dev strikes.  Using your ship's maneuverability can allow you to dodge many incoming shells (at least from range), but while you're doing that your gun turrets won't be able to keep up with all the turning.  It's issues like that which make it so tempting to just attempt banzai torpedo rushes around islands in Omaha....of course, even if you take a ship completely by surprise from point-blank range, there's a better than even chance you get blapped while turning to bring your tubes on target.  In short, against halfway competent opponents you're going to struggle to do much of anything in an Omaha.

A couple things I can recommend to make your time in Omaha less painful is first to invest in premium time if your finances allow for it, even if just a weekend pass.  The 50% increase to your XP & credit earnings in every battle makes the grind past tier five much easier.  Second, spend some time playing low tier destroyers as well.  This not only lends more variety to your play, making each of your grinds less tedious, it'll also help tremendously when it comes to anticipating enemy ship's movements and deploying effective counters.  That latter point becomes even more crucial as you climb up the tiers and start running into more and more solid, experienced opponents.

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49 minutes ago, ruar said:

Played a long time ago, now I'm back and enjoying the game again.

 

Playing US cruisers because I want to get to the Baltimore class since my grandfather was on the St. Paul during the Korean war.  Right now I'm stuck in the Omaha.  Yes, I've read about the Omaha and how it's a mediocre ship that dies a lot.  Yes, I've died a lot.

 

Two things I've noticed though.  One, people expect me to be some kind of destroyer hunter/killer.  I don't understand why though.  Yeah, I've got a bunch of guns with a 7 second reload.  But good luck hitting destroyers at 10k range while they are jumping all over the place.  If it's early game I can't go after them because I get focus fired by everything under the sun and die in a few salvos.  If it's late game then I close the distance only to eat torps at close range before I can dodge.  Yes, I use hydroacustics when fighting DDs at close range.

Is there a trick to fighting destroyers in the Omaha?  Should I even be worried about the DDs?  I'm thinking I should just be assisting the BBs and focusing fire on whatever target is in range.

 

Second.  Is it just me or do destroyer torps need a longer arming range?  It kind of sucks trying to fight them at close range only to have them drop torps and I have no time to dodge.  And it's not like I can dictate the range since they are faster and turn better.  Sure, I can shoot at them, but that usually doesn't keep them out of close range.  I'm thinking that having the destroyers fire farther away and give cruisers a chance to maneuver a bit seems fair.  Then again, it could just be I haven't really played a good cruiser yet.

Hi, welcome back to WoWS. 

You are right that a cruisers job is to help screen the fleet and kill enemy destroyers before they torp your battleships. But that doesn’t mean rush in, like you’ve found nd out already. 

Cruisers play quite differently if you are top tier or not. If your Omaha is top tier, then you have an expectation of being a bit more aggressive as you can push into enemy smoke and use your sonar to spot targets and torpedoes. However, I would wait to mid battle before becoming aggressive. 

Meanwhile, or if you are bottom tier, try to set fires on enemy battleships so they use their damage control, making them vulnerable to more fires or flooding from friendly torps. BUT do so from a relatively safe position - shoot over islands, or near max range and keep a close eye on when enemy ships shoot at you - and they will shoot at you a lot, as the Omaha has a reputation of taking easy citadel damage - and dodge the incoming fire. Battleships shoot every 30 seconds or so, so take evasive action from 28 seconds and troll their aim. 

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, ruar said:

Played a long time ago, now I'm back and enjoying the game again.

 

Playing US cruisers because I want to get to the Baltimore class since my grandfather was on the St. Paul during the Korean war.  Right now I'm stuck in the Omaha.  Yes, I've read about the Omaha and how it's a mediocre ship that dies a lot.  Yes, I've died a lot.

 

Two things I've noticed though.  One, people expect me to be some kind of destroyer hunter/killer.  I don't understand why though.  Yeah, I've got a bunch of guns with a 7 second reload.  But good luck hitting destroyers at 10k range while they are jumping all over the place.  If it's early game I can't go after them because I get focus fired by everything under the sun and die in a few salvos.  If it's late game then I close the distance only to eat torps at close range before I can dodge.  Yes, I use hydroacustics when fighting DDs at close range.

Is there a trick to fighting destroyers in the Omaha?  Should I even be worried about the DDs?  I'm thinking I should just be assisting the BBs and focusing fire on whatever target is in range.

 

Second.  Is it just me or do destroyer torps need a longer arming range?  It kind of sucks trying to fight them at close range only to have them drop torps and I have no time to dodge.  And it's not like I can dictate the range since they are faster and turn better.  Sure, I can shoot at them, but that usually doesn't keep them out of close range.  I'm thinking that having the destroyers fire farther away and give cruisers a chance to maneuver a bit seems fair.  Then again, it could just be I haven't really played a good cruiser yet.

well, from my experience with light cruisers, of which the Omaha is, you're a DD hunter and a fire starter, Omaha isnt a ship that should be on the front lines, its one of those ships that people see and think "oh look, free damage/kill" because Omaha has paper thin armor, its a support ship more than anything and the torps are merely for self defense, i made the mistake of going towards enemies trying to get torps off, that gets you killed very quickly, USN ships, mainly CLs and DDs, are known for their "floaty arcs" at distance over 10km or so, focusing fire and burning things down is probably youre best bet for the Omaha, and if you can, use the islands as cover and lob shells over them, its a well known thing for USN CLs to do, keeps your ships hidden while still letting you rain fire down on the enemy due to the high arcs of the guns, hope this info can help

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Every ship should fire at DDs when spotted. Doesn't mean you should necessarily be hunting them, but do fire on them when able. More importantly, you should be screening BBs from the enemy torps. There is really no reason an Omaha should be taking torps, means you are probably making a mistake ( cutting corners to close and getting ambushed, not changing speed/direction, not utilizing your hydro, rushing DDs or otherwise letting your self-get to close to them.)

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In the Omaha or any light cruiser you should never over extend or try to cap etc.  You should use islands to position close to caps to give fire support to friendly DD's.  So early in the game support your dd's from cover if possible, and stay close to your friendly BB's to lay on firepower when enemy DD's are spotted or focus on targets the BB's are already shooting at..  If you are, "DARK"  (Unspotted) be very selective about when and what you target.  Get the best position you can before you fire and ensure you have room to maneuver after you become spotted.  Your ability to affect to battle will greatly increase the longer you survive.  This is true with cruisers in general.  As enemy ships are thinned out as the game progresses you can become a bit more adventurous.  You have excellent speed in the Omaha.  Towards the end of the game you can rush and take caps at off points away from enemy BB's,  and this is the time to go hunt down stray enemy DD's that are capping, or trying to chase down a friendly CV or BB.  A lot easier to kill at this stage as most have taken a few hits, and you will not be focused as badly by enemy ships since there will not be as many of them.

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This thread has lots of good advice for you and everyone from scarred Omaha veterans. 

FYI, the co-op AI does not prioritize targeting Omaha.  You can grind through the Omaha there with less grief.  BTW, you will not like Pensacola either but the New Orleans is good.  The CL tech tree is good too.

Baltimore is an excellent, worthy goal.  Thank you for your grandfather's service.  Sadly, you have many, many tough battles before getting the Baltimore in your port.  It's a monster in Operation Cherry Blossom. 

I got my free Baltimore with the USN cruiser split/re-org and did not expect to enjoy it so much.

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Feel ya. Omaha is tough. 

One person who played it really well in a ranked game (admittedly not too many bbs in that one), stayed far far away (like 14k km or so) until the DDs started to show up, then pushed around rocks and stuff to get closer. Killed all the DDs for us, won game, got compliments. 

Otherwise, you can stay at far range or behind rocks and lob fire shells at bbs. 

Omaha seriously needs a concealment buff and torpedo range buff. GK can out spot it with a CE captain.... 

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Understand this with Crusiers:  There is no "Tanking" in PVP of this game.

People will shoot at the targets that will reward them the most.

 

Example:  I'm playing a Montana.  I see at 15km an angled Yamato and a bit off to her side, an angled Zao.  Guess which one I'm going to shoot at?  The Cruiser.  Because I know my BB shells will have a likelier chance to have a great outcome shooting at a less well armored, exposed citadel ship.  My BB shells will easily Overmatch her armor with any hits, getting Penetrations and some Citadel hits if lucky.  Meanwhile I'll just bounce off the Yamato.  I will especially shoot at a kiting Cruiser because they tend to eat lots of Citadel hits like that.  There is nothing to force me to engage Yamato.

 

If you are a Cruiser in open water, you are likely the one, especially any Battleship, anyone is going going for.  Your Priority Target counter will be at 0 -> 1 -> 4 -> 5+ in seconds when you are detected.

 

Unless you're maneuvering for some advantageous firing position, or a Radar Cruiser moving up to try to help contest the caps, Cruisers in general got no business being up close.  Eventually in the upper tiers, even 16km is suicidal for a Cruiser against BB gunfire.  New Cruiser players often get themselves into early trouble by using their superior speed to get too close to the front, even inside a cap with no cover at the start of the match and then they die in the opening minutes.  An enemy DD spots them then all his BB & Cruiser friends behind slaughter the Cruiser.

 

When do you go after Destroyers as a Cruiser?  Only if your Cruiser is fast enough (30-32kt Cruisers aren't "fast") and there are no enemy ships around to shoot at you as you blindly flail around looking for a DD without Radar.  If your Cruiser doesn't have good concealment, it becomes even more annoying trying to isolate where the DD threat is at.  Moving to look for a DD takes full concentration.  So doing this with BBs shooting at you is suicidal.  Even other Cruisers that shoot at you?  It's free money.  You're distracted trying to look for a DD, they're getting free hits on you, and likely nice broadside shots also.

 

People like to think Cruisers have it easy hunting DDs but it's difficult and the circumstances for doing so safely are very specific and narrow.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I'm grinding my way for a Baltimore as well. Just got a New Orleans this weekend so the grinding continues.

It's rough to escort BBs for support because enemy BB's see you as an easy (or at least easier) kill and your guns aren't as effective on a BB. 

My favorite cruiser I play now is a premium Atago I got at the beginning of the month. I tend to support friendly DD's more than the BB's because DD's seem to meet up with each other before any of the other ships do and helping out a friendly DD pays off for the whole fleet by getting rid of those torpedo spamming enemy DDs. The only thing I find more threatening than an enemy DD is an enemy torpedo bomber squadron. 

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27 minutes ago, Aurora_7 said:

I'm grinding my way for a Baltimore as well. Just got a New Orleans this weekend so the grinding continues.

It's rough to escort BBs for support because enemy BB's see you as an easy (or at least easier) kill and your guns aren't as effective on a BB. 

My favorite cruiser I play now is a premium Atago I got at the beginning of the month. I tend to support friendly DD's more than the BB's because DD's seem to meet up with each other before any of the other ships do and helping out a friendly DD pays off for the whole fleet by getting rid of those torpedo spamming enemy DDs. The only thing I find more threatening than an enemy DD is an enemy torpedo bomber squadron. 

The only possible idea a Cruiser escorts a BB is air defense.  Even then, the Cruiser has to be close to the BB so that enough of the AA range acts as a buffer to defend the BB from the bombers.  If you're close enough to defend a BB for AA Duty, you're close enough for me to pick your Cruiser out with my BB Guns.

 

The talk of Cruisers "screening" in front for the Battleships is pointless.  You'll get ripped apart from focus fire from 3-4 Battleships.  And then when you're dead, the enemy torpedoes will then sail past your sinking hulk towards your teammates behind you, undetected.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I have some good stats with Omaha and enjoy her.

I dont hunt destroyers til the mid game, but it shines at that point, because you can wiggle to present half of the guns on port and starboard in short order. The hydro allows you to see the torps headed for you, or to charge smoke.

You must constantly be aware that it has horrible concealment and giant citadels, so trying to shield with an island is best. I find it virtually useless against cruisers, but you can roast bbs, and chip damage dds to death quickly.

This cruiser ended up on that map with the 4 caps and 4 islands clustered around the center like 50% of the time i played it. I found A cap to be its strong side, the center space around the islands is the absolute no.

If you have any success, keep this thing around for missions. Anything that requires hits, ribbons or fires...

Proper omaha play results in a cramped up trigger finger...its all about dpm.

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Cruisers are very difficult to play; they are easily 'deleted' by Battleships if they catch your sides. Every BB on the map is watching and waiting for that to happen. One turn at the wrong time, from a ship you may not even see, and your game is over. 

If you're new, I would recommend BB or DD to start with. Stay away from CV as they will be completely changed in the 'CV Rework' that is coming at some future undetermined date. 

BB's have good armor, good guns, and allow you to get a feel for the game. 

DD's have stealth, and a mix of guns and torps. They teach you to read the map and learn how to fight up close or torp from stealth without ever being seen. 

Don't get me wrong, good cruiser players can dominate, but it takes a good knowledge of gunnery, ship placement, and abusing cover. It's a challenging class, and if you want to start there, more power to you. 

Hope this helps.

Edited by RevTKS

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23 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The talk of Cruisers "screening" in front for the Battleships is pointless.  You'll get ripped apart from focus fire from 3-4 Battleships.

Hmm, apparently you've seen the results of one of my recent matches......:Smile_glasses:

Edited by Aurora_7

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You think the Omaha is just mediocore? It has LESS armor than RN Tier 5 Cruiser, longer detection range, worse torps, worse DPM (AP), and no heal. It is a turd topping on a turd sandwhich.

Also the exact same guns fire at a higher velocity on the Russian premium because "magic," despite them refusing to change velocity on any USN gun cause "historical accuracy."

203mm guns shot at 900ms you say? No comrad, that's fake news, never happened, cannot be done.

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17 minutes ago, Aurora_7 said:

Hmm, apparently you've seen the results of one of my recent matches......:Smile_glasses:

Any new hard charging Cruiser player trying to do what he can for the team has done that :Smile_veryhappy: I just cringe when I see it happening in front of me.  Two Brothers, south spawn, Cap A out west, watching an Omaha sail right behind his team's DDs into the cap.  Omaha got spotted by an enemy DD that has yet to be detected itself and 3 BBs and a Cruiser or two shot her up, didn't even last 30 seconds.  The DDs didn't even bother dropping smoke for the Omaha.

 

I've made that mistake myself and vowed to never repeat it.  Especially hoping for smoke from non-Division DDs when trying to support them at the cap with even a Radar Cruiser.

9 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

You think the Omaha is just mediocore? It has LESS armor than RN Tier 5 Cruiser, longer detection range, worse torps, worse DPM (AP), and no heal. It is a turd topping on a turd sandwhich.

Also the exact same guns fire at a higher velocity on the Russian premium because "magic," despite them refusing to change velocity on any USN gun cause "historical accuracy."

203mm guns shot at 900ms you say? No comrad, that's fake news, never happened, cannot be done.

The addition of Pensacola in Tier VI with USN CA AP with their special bounce angles didn't do anything to make Omaha's life any easier.  It made it a whole lot worse.  When an Omaha tries to show more turrets than the front ones, it's Citadel City Party for Pensacola's AP.  Nothing but blood in the water remaining.

bloodywater.jpg

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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As a cruiser you should be targeting DDs any chance you get. Keep practicing shooting them and you will soon be pro. 

Also, regarding torps... Always expect the DD will torpedo you and maneuver often. No need to bum rush them because you will not have time to maneuver.  Keep a decent distance and keep shooting them.  

Have fun

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