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Dr_Venture

I tried playing CV's again.

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....what...the...hell...happened?

I haven't touched our illustrious flattop overlords in well over a year. I had a Hiryu and I was pretty good at it, I enjoyed the game. Now I come back into it...I decide to go play the American CV's.

This sums it up PERFECTLY: 

Whoever thinks the Bogue is a great way to get people interested in playing this game, was clearly high, or was playing a totally different game. Eventually after 7 straight losses I broke and used 15k free XP to get the indie. 

good god why do I torture myself!

THE INDIE IS A CARBON COPY OF THE BOGUE! Meanwhile...back at the dance party I see nothing but tier 8 match making...

The hell is this strafing [edited]? Oh great we added another thing for me to keep track of during the herding of cats that is aircraft carriers...meanwhile starting the match knowing flat out my planes and torps are worthless due to the abundance of high tier AA.

---------------

So after my straight up raging and being extremely ****ed off by this total crock of bullsnot...it got me thinking.

Any rework is better than tier 5 and tier 6 USN CV's. They are so gimped and underpowered they are pretty much worthless. *looks at Texas* yeah you might aswell dump those 40's for an extra knot...you're good homie.

Strafing is so dumb...this is not fun and engaging it's another thing to get my blood pressure up whilst I try to understand why I bothered playing carriers again. 

As for the rework, I played it...and from my perspective it's really the only way to go. You need to get the CV population back up...and after my brief yet memorable exposure to low tier USN CV's I think it's best we either drown this unwanted abomination known as RTS CV play and go forward with 3rd person.

Truth be told...I'd be down with swapping between 2 or 3 planes in first person mode, simplified, you've got a great idea. 

Now I'm gonna go watch some sloths on Youtube to down out that total f'ing nightmare I just played through. 

 

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Not sure why you are surprised.  Strafing isnt a new thing, and USN has always been the weaker line.   USN is better off then it used to be, but again none of this should be surprising if you played IJN carriers a year ago.   Sure your T6 gets T8 mm, but at least you arent matched against a T8 CV.  Hopefully the CV rework will do some good for the class, but that will take a while they will have to not only figure out what they want the planes to play like but re balance every single CV in the game to boot.

 

 

Edited by JToney3449

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Yeah, it's too much multi-tasking for me to try it again.  I gave up on Bogue before strafing existed, and I probably would have given up on it faster if the game had strafing back then. 

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6 minutes ago, JToney3449 said:

Not sure why you are surprised.  Strafing isnt a new thing, and USN has always been the weaker line.   USN is better off then it used to be, but again none of this should be surprising if you played IJN carriers a year ago.   Sure your T6 gets T8 mm, but at least you arent matched against a T8 CV.  Hopefully the CV rework will do some good for the class, but that will take a while they will have to not only figure out what they want the planes to play like but re balance every single CV in the game to boot.

 

 

I never tried strafing. 

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Just now, Dr_Venture said:

I never tried strafing. 

Strafing is a huge part of CV play as it currently is.  A single good strafe can make or break the air war, once thats done you have free rein of the skys to feed upon the enemy team.  Its part of why CV play is so utterly broken atm, a good/great cv player vs a bad/new one ends the air war before it begins, the good one will wipe the bad cv from the sky then run amok sinking the enemy team.   While winning the air war doesnt guarantee a over all win, the devs have said if a CV wins the air war stats show that team wins about 80% of the time.   Thats pretty damn unbalanced in the grand scheme. Throw in if you dont have at least a 10pt captain you are hard pressed to do well against another CV using AS. Personally I think CV play is to multitask oriented atm, forcing people to do to much at the same time.

High end CV are controlling 5 squadrons, doing manual drop, spotting, and doing strafe runs all at the same time as they move their CVs around the map.    Not everyone can handle that amount of tasks at once, so hopefully when they redo CV they make it less stressful management wise allowing for more people to play well at end game.  Hope some of this helps you enjoy CV a lil more, dont give up Venture.  Keep in mind im no CV expert.:cap_like:

Edited by JToney3449
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3 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

Strafing is a huge part of CV play as it currently is.  A single good strafe can make or break the air war, once thats done you have free rein of the skys to feed upon the enemy team.  Its part of why CV play is so utterly broken atm, a good/great cv player vs a bad/new one ends the air war before it begins, the good one will wipe the bad cv from the sky then run amok sinking the enemy team.   While winning the air war doesnt guarantee a over all win, the devs have said if a CV wins the air war stats show that team wins about 80% of the time.   Thats pretty damn unbalanced in the grand scheme. Throw in if you dont have at least a 10pt captain you are hard pressed to do well against another CV using AS. Personally I think CV play is to multitask oriented atm, forcing people to do to much at the same time.

High end CV are controlling 5 squadrons, doing manual drop, spotting, and doing strafe runs all at the same time as they move their CVs around the map.    Not everyone can handle that amount of tasks at once, so hopefully when they redo CV they make it less stressful management wise allowing for more people to play well at end game.  Hope some of this helps you enjoy CV a lil more, dont give up Venture.  Keep in mind im no CV expert.:cap_like:

All this is exactly why it was done, IMO. You have hit the nail on the head - the great/unicum carrier players are the ones who can multitask well, and no matter how well you practice, not everyone can do this to the same level. So they needed to break the multitasking bias.

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51 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

All this is exactly why it was done, IMO. You have hit the nail on the head - the great/unicum carrier players are the ones who can multitask well, and no matter how well you practice, not everyone can do this to the same level. So they needed to break the multitasking bias.

Mentally I can handle it - but my 63 year old fingers aren't fast enough... if they had only given permanent grouping to the UI so once assigned, it stuck during the match, I would have proceeded up the lines. I stopped at T6 because it was not right to make the team suffer for my lack of dexterity. 

I disagree a bit with the Bogue... if you're in the Zuiho against a Bogue with a decent player, his fighters effectively block most of your options. Funny thing - every time I play my Zuhio I get a Bogue. Every match I'm in when playing something other than a carrier, our Zuiho gets another Zuiho. :cap_haloween:

Try the carrier in the Halloween event - it's fun! 

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I seriously considered it, but all the how-to-win vids I have seen have made it clear that your carrier player needs to be at the top of their game, as they need to manage both their aircraft AND the weird consumables they get. I would be a detriment to the team, and I know a lot of people are relying on this op right now, to get the stars they need for RN ops and eventually Cossack.

The other thing is that I am currently hoarding FXP like a boss, because I've built up 400K FXP from nothing since July (I wiped out all my reserves getting Nelson), and I've decided I'm going to try for one of the 750K FXP biggies. No more free-XP'ing ships or modules until this is done.

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6 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

rework

Solution: Flying cocoons...It's so obvious.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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Bogue is perhaps the most novice friendly CV right now, for what it's worth.

Against a Zuiho your life is really simple. He has one fighter, you have one fighter, but yours is vastly superior. So you can use your fighter to 100% guarantee your strikes go through. 

The caveat is, if he's smart he'll try to fight you over friendly AA, because that's his only option. Also, if he's smart, he'll split his planes so well you can't stop all his strikes with one fighter. And then you'll have to start prioritize with that fighter of yours -- can your bombers go without escort for a while?

Occasionally you'll get this four-carrier game where there's a Tier6 CV with manual strafes to go against, and then your life will be incredibly miserable.

Edited by jss78

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Unless you've got an alt or have stopped your stats from updating somehow, you won 6 out of 10 total Bogue matches and did slightly higher than server average damage.

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8 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

The hell is this strafing [edited]?

Strafing has been around since late Alpha testing, early closed Beta testing - other than a brief gap in which you had to take a 3 or 4 point skill I think it was to unlock it (like manual AA or AS). So, unless you forgot it, the only way you can't know it is you encountered every single player that didn't know it, or didn't use it, of which those odds are astronomical.

8 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

Oh great we added another thing for me to keep track of during the herding of cats that is aircraft carriers...

If you were good at Hiryu at all, it's 3 groups and the strafing instead of 6 and the strafing. 

8 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

They are so gimped and underpowered they are pretty much worthless.

Somewhat debatable. Last check USN fighters still murder the hell out of IJN's, only way Ryujo should stand a chance is if he has an AS loadout with more than one fighter, meaning he's screwed over his strike ability. Zuiho might if it does the same and RNG is on it's side. USN was kinda of screwed over when they removed options, but more importantly we've been asking, since USN's thing was supposed to be DB's, to have them improved to be of some use for ages. Problem is they were overnerfed back when DD's had citadel's and USN DB's all but slaughtered them, and haven't been fixed since. TB's is a more complex issue because were we to get manual drops back, albeit damage would need to be lowered, they'd be fine, but as is they need faster torps because BB's and all still have their multiple mobility buffs. But right planning at tier 5, and manual drops at tier 6, easily keep pace with IJN CV's.

8 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

 Meanwhile...back at the dance party I see nothing but tier 8 match making...

Which is also why we asked for years for them to balance AA right, and a long time ago told them that Ranger should be T6, with something like Soryu as it's opposite, and tier 7 be Yorktown and Ranger cause Bogue can't get out of it's own way and training wheels should come off after tier 5. It's also why we kept telling them to fix manual drop and not buff AA because it further broke these already broken things. Because the issue isn't nearly as bad when you have actual reserves and can take some losses. And why we had a thing against all the AA BB's they added and all the other "Super AA ships" - like Texas that has tier 7 almost AA at tier 5.

 

Half the issues your encountering are the fact they went way too hard on USN being anti-plane, which it still mostly is, while IJN is more anti-ship. And when they screwed with one line, and no the other, forgot to fix the rest of the things that needed addressing. 

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FINALLY, someone put it into words. I tired cv's back in the beta days if this game and thought they where ok. After the addition of strafing, I lost the will to play CV in this game. USN CVS are laughably underpowered in most situations.

Luckly I got invited to test the CV rework beta and I am liking it so far from the last testing they did.

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I'm really new but I freaking loved the Bogue, t6 has proven even more fun since it requires a bit more attention. It's less relaxing than the tier 4 and 5 games, but keeps my interest much better. One battle away from the t6 Japanese cv too, forget the name. While I like the actual attacks with the new system, I'm going to miss the current one a lot once its gone. Might be the end of me playing cvs a lot. If they had only done a little work to give the controls some basic RTS features and a simple tutorial, and gave it a unique camera angle to make it more immersive while still giving you good views, there'd be absolutely no reason to change it imo.

 

I will say the Zuiho is a pain in the [edited]to fight Bogues with, but I want to level up both cv lines at the same time. I'll probably stop at t7 and see if they make the newer mode more interesting so I don't waste my time grinding.

 

I know the numbers show not enough people are playing cvs, but I get them in my non-cv matches frequently. I guess they want more than one cv per battle, though that seems to be the right number for them with either system.

Edited by Tanuvein

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On 10/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, Flashtirade said:

Unless you've got an alt or have stopped your stats from updating somehow, you won 6 out of 10 total Bogue matches and did slightly higher than server average damage.

That kinda tells you how bad that POS is if I picked it up outta the blue and did better than your average monkey.

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45 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

That kinda tells you how bad that POS is if I picked it up outta the blue and did better than your average monkey.

I don't think wows-numbers can filter by date, but the average damage for the Bogue has always been low, even when it had manual attacks. This was because people fell for the AS meme and shot down a lot of planes while contributing nothing else to the team, while all a Zuihou had to do was get a single successful drop to affect the average random battle more than the opposing Bogue.

If you want to check my Bogue stats, I can tell you that the majority of those games came before the removal of manual attacks. I simply learned how to strafe and drop with my preferred setup (1-1-0) and could almost outfight any CV player I faced. After all the changes, winning air control in a 1v1 is even easier but damage from drops is lower. Bogue is still a powerhouse in the right hands, ranked sprint can attest to that.

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