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Mothermoy

how do you push as a BB in the current HE meta

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ok wise man once says an issue without a solution is a complaint. Now i love bbs. an i could be wrong, but they are big with lotsa armor, and ment to push. however in the current he meta, the counter-play to me seems pretty severe. how can you succesfully counter HE spam in your bbs? Is there a BB line that does well against HE spam. it just seems any more i get withing 15 or 16 km of the center, machine gun he comes outa no where an i just have to turn tail an  run. Help me forum wan kenobi your my only hope

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Don't push center unless you know that it's safe to do so. Instead flank around wide. If it's possible stay undetected until as late as possible, and keep the range wide. Remember, you can shoot further than they can.

The best counterplay is to work with your DDs. They can safely spot cruisers around the island for you to avoid, or for you to cit from long range. Blap cruisers that harass your destroyers and do your best to put holes in enemy DDs when yours spot them.

When you do push, use the island to your advantage. Even if they're USN and can throw shells high over islands, there are angles where even they can't lob shells safely; they may be able to throw shells toward you but with spotter plane you can throw car-sized AP into their cits where they belong. On the flip side there are also angles that are too close for them to lob shells, but this approach is risky since any torp bearing ship can turn the tables on you. Only do that if you know you'r facing USN (and not an Atlanta).

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You only push when there is a safe route established as well as few team mates. All BB can handle fire damage without too much trouble but some ship like République and Conqueror are covered with 32mm armor which means they will eat HE damage as well as potential fire damage.

 

Put yourself in a position where the only people who can shoot you are the people you're currently aiming with your guns. Use island to cover your side and if there are CV, sail close to your friendly cruiser. CV will think twice before attacking a Musashi near a Des Moines or Worcester. Don't be afraid to take damage. Fire damage are 100% repairable and if you're in that special position mention above, it means every ship that is spamming HE at you aren't out of your reach. The damage you take is HP you can save for that retarded cruiser who sail broadside in front of the ennemi team or the DD who's spotting for you.

 

Positionning and consummable management are key to make sucessful pushes. Overextend and you'll die by fire and flooding. Repair a single fire and you'll die by fire and flooding. Enduring constant HE rain without taking a break to heal or reposition yourself will get you killed. 

 

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This may sound crazy but when a cruiser shoots at you have you tried shooting back? It works for me, most of the time.

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Just now, NeoRussia said:

This may sound crazy but when a cruiser shoots at you have you tried shooting back? It works for me, most of the time.

 

Yeah, you can also kite cruisers; you don't have to let them kite you.

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14 minutes ago, pikohan said:

 

Yeah, you can also kite cruisers; you don't have to let them kite you.

Unless ur a t7 n lower usn BB...21knts for days boys, hell, most other BBs can kite these things..

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16 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

Unless ur a t7 n lower usn BB...21knts for days boys, hell, most other BBs can kite these things..

I remember the days +/-3 MM, playing Pre-Buffed, Stock Colorado and I had a Zao and Ibuki stealth firing me.  Not a d*mn thing I could do :Smile_trollface:

====

Anyways.  When do you push as a BB?  Only when the time is right.  Until then, you stay alive and lend your firepower to help make that a reality.

You see someone make a mistake?  Punish them.

A friendly DD spotted an enemy DD?  Your number 1 priority is helping kill off the enemy Destroyers.

 

You fight just above the typical torpedo ranges of the combatants around you.

You fight close enough where you can get more accurate shots off.

You don't fight so far away where your shots are inaccurate.  You may as well Exit to Port if you're doing that as a BB.

Have patience.

Read the match and you'll know when the time is right to push as a Battleship.

 

Just going, "Imma BB and I'll lead us all to victory, follow me noobz!" will only get you rekt and everyone looking at you, "WTH was that guy thinking?"

 

Patience and Timing.

 

TLDR:  You whack ships until the opposing enemy group is dead or weakened enough for a push.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

Unless ur a t7 n lower usn BB...21knts for days boys, hell, most other BBs can kite these things..

I've won games by having several ships chase my Colorado to the ends of the earth and away from the caps, so it's still kinda viable. 

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1 hour ago, Mothermoy said:

ok wise man once says an issue without a solution is a complaint. Now i love bbs. an i could be wrong, but they are big with lotsa armor, and ment to push. however in the current he meta, the counter-play to me seems pretty severe. how can you succesfully counter HE spam in your bbs? Is there a BB line that does well against HE spam. it just seems any more i get withing 15 or 16 km of the center, machine gun he comes outa no where an i just have to turn tail an  run. Help me forum wan kenobi your my only hope

Grinding Izumo atm; I fear no fire or HE.

Get fire prevention , Basics of Survivablity, High Alert, premium repair and heal, and then fire time reduction, reload time of consumables reduction, and dreadnought flags. Laugh at anyone wasting their time trying to HE you. They will be there for awhile.

Edited by ModDestroyer_1

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1 hour ago, Mothermoy said:

ok wise man once says an issue without a solution is a complaint. Now i love bbs. an i could be wrong, but they are big with lotsa armor, and ment to push. however in the current he meta, the counter-play to me seems pretty severe. how can you succesfully counter HE spam in your bbs? Is there a BB line that does well against HE spam. it just seems any more i get withing 15 or 16 km of the center, machine gun he comes outa no where an i just have to turn tail an  run. Help me forum wan kenobi your my only hope

HE spam shouldn’t be a problem if you have damage control discipline, use premium consumables and recognizing the level of danger you are in and making an early exit. It is far too late to make an exit by the time you have two fire with your  DCP on cool down. 

You can also use the rainbow arcs against them. If you keep 15+km range and you sail in zig zag, you’d be surprised at how hard it is for CL to consistently land enough shells for them to make more than 1 fire stick at a time. Far too often, people that suffers from HE spam are people that misuse or are overly reliant on using a stationary bow-in position where it is easy for a CL to land every single shell.

If you think about it, if you can dodge half the shells out of every salvo, you instantly cut their fires per minute in half without even relying on RNG. With most HE spam ships it is actually not that hard to do if you are far enough given their rainbow arcs. A small effort in even trying to avoid getting hit goes much further in fire prevention  than any single captain skill, upgrade, or flag ever does.

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    The 'meta' in my opinion as far as HE is concerned has not changed much if any in quite a while. I think a lot of people woke up once the British battleship line was released and started to spec into fire prevention learned to cope with most of it. There are new sources of HE spam of course and a few of the new ones are absolutely efficient at what they do, but it doesn't change what you do about it, it just makes it more punishing to mess up. You push in just behind your destroyers and possibly cruisers just outside of your detection range and you murder priority targets as they are spotted. Destroyers of course are important to kill because they are the eyes and they restrict your freedom of action with torps, and cruisers need to go because they can maul your destroyers to death and that restricts your vision. If you are overly focused on you go dark again and either wait for them to pick another target or you reposition. The best way to push never has changed, its as a team or group around your cap with the ship filling the role they are best at and quickly and efficiently killing the red team in your area of influence. Its as simple as the people playing any respective match make it, which is to say its rare to get it 100% right in randoms, but its not hard to do it well enough to get the job done.

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Shoot priority target like broadside bb or cruiser. Then stay undetected. After salvo, you have 20s before detection time ups. Use it well and you may live longer. Shoot and hide play may works well some bb.

Hide or conceal when been focus fire and dont  repair with just 1 fire on board . easy to write than real in game playing.hehe.

Yes you can shoot dd too. 

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41 minutes ago, ModDestroyer_1 said:

Grinding Izumo atm; I fear no fire or HE.

Get fire prevention , Basics of Survivablity, High Alert, premium repair and heal, and then fire time reduction, reload time of consumables reduction, and dreadnought flags. Laugh at anyone wasting their time trying to HE you. They will be there for awhile.

i run a concealment build on my NC is fire prevention worth dropping CE for?

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46 minutes ago, ModDestroyer_1 said:

Grinding Izumo atm; I fear no fire or HE.

Get fire prevention , Basics of Survivablity, High Alert, premium repair and heal, and then fire time reduction, reload time of consumables reduction, and dreadnought flags. Laugh at anyone wasting their time trying to HE you. They will be there for awhile.

ok every second that you go buy you make moar an moar sense. ima try your build yoda....

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54 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

This may sound crazy but when a cruiser shoots at you have you tried shooting back? It works for me, most of the time.

Yeah, except the usual problem is that USN cruiser or other high arc ships behind a rock they can shoot over, but you can't. 

2 hours ago, Mothermoy said:

how can you succesfully counter HE spam in your bbs?

The question is numbers, and is it true HE spam or IFHE spam because there is a dramatic difference. 

If you only have 1 HE/IFHE spammer and they are fairly close/stationary, with no help or only AP slingers you can bounce - just rush them if you can catch them. 

If it's a couple ships with pure HE - again, you can rush them, only 203's are going to auto pen and below tier 10 they have a slow reload and 152 and lower will  mostly shatter - which is why fire damage is so high on BB's. Which, yes the FIRE damage is fully repairable. 

IFHE spammer (you'll know quickly by how much HP you lose per salvo that hits) you need team help.

But the most important thing when pushing is to have a team that pushes with you anyway, which is usually the issue, no one else wanting to push. After IFHE spam drained most of my HP, the team finally started pushing, and managed to get to a spot I could charge a FDR and Monarch in my Tirpitz which, yes, resulted in me being sunk, but taking both of them with me (torps for the win), but I've spent literally 12 minutes tanking fire in a Musashi (note here - it seems to do better with fires and damage than other BB's despite the same skills and all as the others) only to watch my team stay 3 grid squares away from the furthest edge of the caps,  and while they finally wore down the red team some, too little, too late when they've held 2-3 caps most of the game and one of your BB's is doing most of the spotting. Need either an aggressive team, or one with enough of a spine to at least attempt to move up and play objectives not farm damage.

The biggest issue is that for CL and DD - HE has always been the meta. The problem is that namely USN gun only CL's and DD's with shorter range torps and designed around guns relied on HE to start fires, and back in the day you might hit 150/200 rounds, but maybe 50 of those actually did damage, the rest shattered, and started 1-2 fires. Which, was a bit of an issue. However, trying to solve that they came up with IFHE, which, became a new issue because BB's still have an 18% base HP loss for each fire, and while being broadside to a cruiser used to be an issue due to clear shots at the super structure they could pen, but now bow on was an issue because HE auto pens if it has high enough pen, no angle defeats it. And so now 100+ are penetrating the ship. So, a CL that does around 700 damage per hit and was scoring 50 hits over 133 seconds (time enough to have used a repair and had it cooldown) for 35000 damage plus fires, is now doing 70000+ in that same time frame plus fires. With the key being that the PENETRATION damage is only 50% repairable and THAT is the issue. Especially because at best, you can heal 16.8% of HP per heal, and it takes time to heal it, and even with NO fires, even something like Musashi taking 70k from 1 ship, of which it can repair 35k, is 2 full heals, and even then still has some that can be repaired, of I think it's a max of 5. That has a 80 second cooldown after it's repair time. Which really is only good if you can somehow disengage completely for about 2-3 minutes to heal up. Now add on that a single fire is doing 10.4-18% because of flags, upgrades, skills, or lack thereof, it starts adding up and is why even though more and more cruisers are getting repairs, they nerfed burn times on DD's and cruisers. Ships doing the best surviving the HE meta are Gascogne/Mass (due to rapid CD of repair party) and Ships like Nelson and Conq with the "Zombie heals" that while the pen damage is still an issue, shrug resulting fires off better. 

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2 hours ago, NATOMarksman said:

Don't push center unless you know that it's safe to do so. Instead flank around wide. If it's possible stay undetected until as late as possible, and keep the range wide. Remember, you can shoot further than they can.

The best counterplay is to work with your DDs. They can safely spot cruisers around the island for you to avoid, or for you to cit from long range. Blap cruisers that harass your destroyers and do your best to put holes in enemy DDs when yours spot them.

When you do push, use the island to your advantage. Even if they're USN and can throw shells high over islands, there are angles where even they can't lob shells safely; they may be able to throw shells toward you but with spotter plane you can throw car-sized AP into their cits where they belong. On the flip side there are also angles that are too close for them to lob shells, but this approach is risky since any torp bearing ship can turn the tables on you. Only do that if you know you'r facing USN (and not an Atlanta).

You should never really flank wide in BB's and should just stay away from islands..there are many reasons why but will take too long to get into it.

BB should try and take a position in the map that allows them to shoot multiple targets.

Edited by Robinhood_

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You don't push, you take multiple positions to put enemy ships into a crossfire that they can't hide from.

 

 

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3 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

This may sound crazy but when a cruiser shoots at you have you tried shooting back? It works for me, most of the time.

Lol yeah this works wonders when a CA is spamming HE and you send AP shells back in return to citadel the CA. It does indeed work wonders.

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Stop expecting to have your full health after a push. I don't know why no one else is pointing this out but it sounds less like you are being *killed* by Flame Spamming cruisers, and more that you don't like getting huge chunks taken out of your health for your troubles. You *are* supposed to get huge chunks taken out of your health though, that's why BB's are chunky bastards. Push forward and *tolerate* losing 50%-65% of your health. If you push, and make it known you are pushing, someone will follow you (usually) and if you succeed in the push (hey, you can't win them all), that's when you use your heals (and obvious DURING the push) and since you will take longer to set up for a follow up push, you use them on-cooldown until you run out of healable HP.

But from what I hear and see, the problem for BB's isn't so much that they get spammed to death, it's that they get spammed to NEAR death and they don't understand tanks should be losing most of their health for a push.

Edited by _RC1138
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Generally speaking, most bbs have a longer range on their MB than cruisers. Its probably one of the root causes for camping. The times I have been successful at pushing were those times when the majority of the reds are not in my immediate vicinity with those who are near me at about 2/3rds of my max range. Say your MB has a range of 21km... the best target range for me would be roughly 14km (2/3 of max range). 

If you cannot consistently land hits on the red ships at that distance you need to hit coop a few dozen, maybe a hundred times, in the ship you're using for your push. It helps also to know what ships you can ignore (temporarily) versus those you must take out or severely damage. The best advice I've seen on this forum over the long haul has to do with angling your ship properly. 

Good luck! 

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5 hours ago, NeoRussia said:

This may sound crazy but when a cruiser shoots at you have you tried shooting back? It works for me, most of the time.

this is insanity.

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1 hour ago, _RC1138 said:

Stop expecting to have your full health after a push. I don't know why no one else is pointing this out but it sounds less like you are being *killed* by Flame Spamming cruisers, and more that you don't like getting huge chunks taken out of your health for your troubles. You *are* supposed to get huge chunks taken out of your health though, that's why BB's are chunky bastards. Push forward and *tolerate* losing 50%-65% of your health. If you push, and make it known you are pushing, someone will follow you (usually) and if you succeed in the push (hey, you can't win them all), that's when you use your heals (and obvious DURING the push) and since you will take longer to set up for a follow up push, you use them on-cooldown until you run out of healable HP.

But from what I hear and see, the problem for BB's isn't so much that they get spammed to death, it's that they get spammed to NEAR death and they don't understand tanks should be losing most of their health for a push.

This is important OP. 

The trick to pushing into multiple enemies is balancing concealment / DCP / Repair party and HP properly. 

You act as a wedge, but the important thing is to reach the saturation point on your wedged area (aka nose in on 3-4 enemies) 

After you loose that initial health, the remaining 40% becomes incredibly tough because the front of your ship has been completely HE saturated.  

If you start taking to much heat, make sure to position in a way that allows you stop firing and reconceal if things get to hot. 

Its also important to make sure your flanks are covered so that the vectors at which you can be fired upon are very limited and controllable . 

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14 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

With a motorized monocle.

1403913335252.gif

I've been looking for that gif.

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