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Sparviero

So if the next tech tree happened to be Pan Europa which ship is your favorite dog in this fight?

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DlMj7XZX0AAVSHD.jpg:large

I'm still going with Russian battleships. Anything Italian has been as we say silenzio stampa. However what was the point of revealing a Pan EU line at Gamescon if nothing will be done for a year?

 

I know @Lert has the Dutch angle on lock down so I dare not say anything too far out of place. I know he has a proper thread out there somewhere I just fail at search sometimes. 

@Talleyrand can also provide some good choices as they where offered to Latin countries and PanLatAm and PanEuropa may share some hulls. Please don't click the link if you are offended by Spanish. :Smile_facepalm:

I figure the Swedish Tre Kronor could be an Atlanta-ish premium that would be a popular money maker. 

Cruiser_HMS_Tre_Kronor.jpg?1540521584364

Swedish Tre Kronor or Göta Lejon. The latter can be reused for Chile so maybe not?
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNNeth_59-53_m1942.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tre_Kronor-class_cruiser

Home team bias would make me want to see the Ansaldo project for Spain have a chance for tier X consideration so I can at least pretend. It's totally a coincident that the Tre Kronor also started life as a project at the Italian firm CRDA. Honest! :cap_like:

crucero-ansaldo-9203.jpg
https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/the-1940s-super-washington-ansaldo-cruisers-for-spain-1200-plans-i/comment-page-1/
https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/11/17/the-1940s-super-washington-ansaldo-cruisers-for-spain-1200-plans-ii/
https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/11/30/the-1940s-super-washington-ansaldo-cruisers-for-spain-1200-plans-iii/
 

Although it seems like the project 1047 as the first Pan Europa premium (after ORP Błyskawica!!!) regardless of whatever tech tree is chosen would be the most efficient™ money maker. Scharnhorst is super popular and despite the differences that have been pointed out I figure many would flock to such a ship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_1047_battlecruiser

rhwwrJn.jpg

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/55501-a-detailed-look-at-project-1047-battlecruiser-lert/

 

I mean who wouldn't want a slagkruiser? :cap_popcorn:

 

So what Pan Europa tech tree/premium would you like to see appear? 6gxlDBi.gif

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First of all, it depends on what you really mean by a Pan European tree.  I think that most people would see a Pan-European tree as a catch all for nations whose navies weren't large enough to support a tech tree of their own.  But it almost seems like you were trying to suggest a Pan-European tree that included ALL European nations, not just the smaller ones.  Personally, I would NOT want to see the latter version.  I'd far rather see a PE tree as a catch all for smaller nations' navies.  

Of course, I think that a PE tree would be rather limited, probably to DDs and perhaps cruisers for the regular  tech tree itself.  It could be possible to have a partial BB line, probably composed of BBs from Austria-Hungary.   And there'd be room for some premium BBs.  But the reality there is that about the highest tier we might see for ships that were build, ordered, or were seriously considered would be tier 5 or 6.  I suppose that there might be the oddball BB or BC, like that Dutch BC, that could be a higher tier premium.  But I think that the reality is that any BB or BC after WW1 would be either fictional or a design study only.  And it should be fairly obvious that carriers would be out of the question.

However, with DDs and cruisers, there's probably a good deal more hope because they can grab ships from a multitude of navies to create a quilt of a tech tree for those types.

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I don't think anyone knows exactly which nations will fit under the umbrella of this tech tree. Poland, Netherlands and Austria Hungaria where the ones mentioned initially?

Which reminds me I did forget to also talk about the ersatz Monarch aka competition for Cesare. 
giphy.gif

 

OAzwsoI.png&key=ba42c84fdfc3f895c403b175

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/5552-improved-tegetthoff-class-ersatz-monarch/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ersatz_Monarch-class_battleship
https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/1200-kuk-ersatz-monarch-section-original-plans/
https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/1200-kuk-ersatz-monarch-top-view-original-plans/

Of course only after visiting the Lesta shipyards for 200 boilers(from the French) and other modifications(German secondary action?). :fish_viking:

Edited by Sparviero

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Italy has enough of a basis for a proper line, 4 completed and a 5th started and never finished. That leaves 3 gaps, maybe on the higher end and one in the middle maybe which isn't exactly uncommon (Germany, USN, IJN, even UK though that has other factors). And that's just what I know about on Italian BB's, there could be plans/studies I don't know about. My knowledge base is more USN, IJN, UK and Germany, and mainly CV's and aircraft, so, others can better go over Italy. 

RU will inevitably get glorious Stalinium Battleships powered by the pride of the people, with shells guided by the hand of Stalin to the enemy citadels that will likely shrug off hits from Yamato's puny guns. Unless it's a line of Kronstadt type BB's in which case yeah we got nothing to fear a tier 6 CV can take it out no issue, let alone even tier BB's. Pretty sure though Kron is an anomaly though meant to be like "see the memes of Russian Bias stuff is false". Or just thought it'd do better than it does. But most likely a line of Nikolai's although even that ships power is fading. 

DD's and Cruisers are easy, and likely the majority of the line/s (you may be able to make 2-3 depending where all you pull from, and lord knows how many are ships already in game under another flag like PA-DD), and a line of BB's that can pull from Austria-Hungary at the minimum, which is at least tier 6-7. After that I'm not certain what other projects/ships other navies not represented already had, but could borrow/modify designs. 

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Tre Kronor is a ship that I've had my eye on for a long time already and seems a shoe-in, but personally I'm holding out for Admiralen, 1047 and 1913.

I might do a thread on Tre Kronor at some point. It uses the same guns as De Zeven Provincien which I've done a number of threads on.

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There are a lot of Paneuropean ships I want. 

Lert makes me a bit of fan of the netherlands navy: 1047 and Java I would choose
The spanish cruiser appeal me very strong: The canarias and the later heavy projects.
Turkey may be included in paneuropean? So Yavuz from the sublime porte.
Greece still has the true original Yolo: Georgio Averof

But my personal favorite is a never-build design: the Mihai Viteazul
The ansaldo version of pocket battleship for Romania.
UP102.jpg

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1 hour ago, Talleyrand said:

There are a lot of Paneuropean ships I want. 

Lert makes me a bit of fan of the netherlands navy: 1047 and Java I would choose
The spanish cruiser appeal me very strong: The canarias and the later heavy projects.
Turkey may be included in paneuropean? So Yavuz from the sublime porte.
Greece still has the true original Yolo: Georgio Averof

But my personal favorite is a never-build design: the Mihai Viteazul
The ansaldo version of pocket battleship for Romania.
UP102.jpg

Averof is armored cruiser with mixed caliber main armament...I'm not very optimistic about her

 

The romanian battleship looks cool however. Didnt even know that project.

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6 hours ago, Sparviero said:

Poland, Netherlands and Austria Hungaria where the ones mentioned initially?

Basically, not Italy, not France, not Germany, not USSR. I wouldn't be surprised to see Spain in there. It's going to be interesting to see if we can get a tech-tree line out of this, because like the Pan-Asians it's going to be made up of many national flavours. There are likely enough cruisers from the pre-dreadnought to the post-WW2 era to see us through, even if some of them have to be Vickers or Elswick paper ships that were fully blueprinted and could have been built, but were just never bought. Likewise destroyers. The thing that really makes tech-tree development at the higher tiers interesting/difficult is that a lot of these nations were under German occupation throughout WW2, and the stand-out exceptions here are going to be Spain and Sweden. I'm pretty sure the Swedes were building cruisers of some description or other into the after-war years, and I know the Spanish were the recipients of a lot of proposals from the British builders.

Battleships, though, are going to be tricky. If WG sticks to its thing of wanting all tech trees to go to Tier 10, your BB line is going to have to be a collection of premiums or include a lot of paper projects.

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1 hour ago, Talleyrand said:

There are a lot of Paneuropean ships I want. 

Lert makes me a bit of fan of the netherlands navy: 1047 and Java I would choose
The spanish cruiser appeal me very strong: The canarias and the later heavy projects.
Turkey may be included in paneuropean? So Yavuz from the sublime porte.
Greece still has the true original Yolo: Georgio Averof

But my personal favorite is a never-build design: the Mihai Viteazul
The ansaldo version of pocket battleship for Romania.
UP102.jpg

Before the PEF I thought WG might make the Yavuz the first German battlecruiser in game. It seemed like a shoe in however I guess PEF at tier VI is much more financially rewarding.


I think everyone wanted that sweet Romanian oil money as several countries offered designs to Romania over the years so it will be interesting to see what WG will go with.

https://digilander.libero.it/planciacomando/unita/virt.htm

The Ansaldo draft had 254/55 which is a possible rifle for the Italian tier x cruiser if WG goes the Moskva/Henri IV route.

I'm curious where WG would try to shoehorn projects such as the Swedish coastal BB.

Coastal Battleship Design by Ansaldo(Considered too big by the Swedes look at the other options in the thread! I'm just being a diehard fanboy :cap_popcorn:)

Date of design: 1941

Dimensions: 173m x 20m x 7m
Displacement: 17.000tons standard
Engine Power: 90.000shp, 4 shafts
Maximum Speed: 43km/h (23knots)

Armour: Belt: 200mm, Deck: 120mm
Armaments:
3x2 280mm Guns

4x2 120m DP-AA Guns

5x2 57m AA Guns

2x2 40m AA Guns

6x1 20m AA Guns


X5kGaQ5.jpg

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/6003-swedish-coastal-warship-projects/

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italy have enough ships for their own  line i think,no need to put them in to the pan eu line.

tre kronor superstructure reminds me of warspite,pretty good looking ship,gotta admit,sweden can make good looking ships.

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6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Basically, not Italy, not France, not Germany, not USSR. I wouldn't be surprised to see Spain in there. It's going to be interesting to see if we can get a tech-tree line out of this, because like the Pan-Asians it's going to be made up of many national flavours. There are likely enough cruisers from the pre-dreadnought to the post-WW2 era to see us through, even if some of them have to be Vickers or Elswick paper ships that were fully blueprinted and could have been built, but were just never bought. Likewise destroyers. The thing that really makes tech-tree development at the higher tiers interesting/difficult is that a lot of these nations were under German occupation throughout WW2, and the stand-out exceptions here are going to be Spain and Sweden. I'm pretty sure the Swedes were building cruisers of some description or other into the after-war years, and I know the Spanish were the recipients of a lot of proposals from the British builders.

Battleships, though, are going to be tricky. If WG sticks to its thing of wanting all tech trees to go to Tier 10, your BB line is going to have to be a collection of premiums or include a lot of paper projects.

It would be best if WG just gave up and did a WoT style spaghetti tech tree. Austrians alone could go to tier VI maybe VII on battleships. Dutch 1047 could be overtiered to VIII and Spanish Littorio at IX. What WG does for a X I've no idea as this requires 1047 and Littorio overtiered and both will be considered under gunned, 1047 massively so!

spanish_littorio_battleship_by_tzoli-d4c

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/5979-spanish-littorio-type-battleship/


Cruisers following the CL style of tree as the British are easy to get to tier X and destroyers are the lowest hanging fruit.

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Spoiler

 

:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

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:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

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:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

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:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

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All of this looks Good and or works for me:Smile_trollface::Smile_izmena:

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:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

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:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

Spoiler

 

:Smile_great::Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by shadowsrmine

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My favorites:

Romanian DD Regele Ferdinand. It would be easy to model, since it's essentially the single gun Blys turrets on a Jianwie hull. High speed, with flat shooting guns backed up by decent torpedoes, and a crazy back story.

Norwegian DD Draug. A Smith and a Tachibana got it on one night, and Draug was the result. Also, can fart torpedoes directly aft.

Would also like to see Spain's Espana class battleships, Tre Kronor and De Zeven Provincien.

 

Matt

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2 minutes ago, mobryan said:

My favorites:

Romanian DD Regele Ferdinand. It would be easy to model, since it's essentially the single gun Blys turrets on a Jianwie hull. High speed, with flat shooting guns backed up by decent torpedoes, and a crazy back story.

Norwegian DD Draug. A Smith and a Tachibana got it on one night, and Draug was the result. Also, can fart torpedoes directly aft.

Would also like to see Spain's Espana class battleships, Tre Kronor and De Zeven Provincien.

 

Matt

:Smile_great::Smile_trollface:Hmm  Tier?

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Just now, shadowsrmine said:

:Smile_great::Smile_trollface:Hmm  Tier?

T6 for Ferdinand, T2 for Draug, Espana is a T3, I think, the other two are mid tier cruisers 6 or 7.

 

Matt

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1 minute ago, mobryan said:

T6 for Ferdinand, T2 for Draug, Espana is a T3, I think, the other two are mid tier cruisers 6 or 7.

 

Matt

sounds interesting and possibly doable/workable depending on how well WG  set them up:Smile_unsure::Smile_sceptic: Though they Don't/Have't always carried that off have they:Smile_sad:

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12 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

sounds interesting and possibly doable/workable depending on how well WG  set them up:Smile_unsure::Smile_sceptic: Though they Don't/Have't always carried that off have they:Smile_sad:

As of late WG has seemed interested in maximizing premium content instead of low tier derp mode. I think LWM(?) or another CC somewhat addressed this a few months ago. My guess is that anything lower than tier VI that can't be copy/pasted from an existing project might be a tough sell. St. Louis vs Charleston is just changing a skin and some soft stats, no? :Smile_hiding:

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The Spanish cruiser Canarias would be interesting to me, maybe at Tier 6 or 7. The Greek Georgios Averof might be kind of cool at Tier 3.

The Dutch cruisers don't interest me much. The Java and De Ruyter were very weak compared to their contemporaries, and Tromp/Van Heemskerk were pretty much glorified flotilla leaders.

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2 hours ago, CruiserSailor said:

The Spanish cruiser Canarias would be interesting to me, maybe at Tier 6 or 7. The Greek Georgios Averof might be kind of cool at Tier 3.

The Dutch cruisers don't interest me much. The Java and De Ruyter were very weak compared to their contemporaries, and Tromp/Van Heemskerk were pretty much glorified flotilla leaders.

Well if WG made it the first British heavy cruiser it would probably sell well just from people who have been waiting for one to appear. :cap_popcorn:

 


On the battleship front could it go Austrian to Spanish for a Habsburg twist? Austrian battleships to tier VI. Spanish looked at British battlecruisers that could fit VII/VIII. Hood style or G3? Then Littorio for tier IX and fudge a UP.41 at tier X? I haven't really looked at this seriously just playing around. Destroyers and cruisers seem rather easy to get a full line maybe even very crowded until late tiers. 

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6 hours ago, Sparviero said:

On the battleship front could it go Austrian to Spanish for a Habsburg twist? Austrian battleships to tier VI. Spanish looked at British battlecruisers that could fit VII/VIII. Hood style or G3? Then Littorio for tier IX and fudge a UP.41 at tier X? I haven't really looked at this seriously just playing around. Destroyers and cruisers seem rather easy to get a full line maybe even very crowded until late tiers

imagen-primera-carlos-v.jpg

Add some southamerican ships for the entire Habsburg empire! Make Charles V happy. Make Hasburg great again!

:cap_haloween:

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I badly want DeRuyter.  I have my doubts that WG will tier it appropriately.

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10 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

I badly want DeRuyter.  I have my doubts that WG will tier it appropriately.

I don't know how WG would overtier De Ruyter it looks like a ship a Danae might risk leaving smoke to shoot at. Might. :Smile_hiding:

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Don't really care about the particulars and don't know enough about these nations that weren't as prominent in WW1/WW2 naval battles. BUT I am all for "more" in the game so bring them all on. :Smile_great::Smile_great:

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