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Soshi_Sone

Why I play T8 better in T10 than T10 in T10

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For many months now I've wondered why I tend top play T8 BBs (mainly my Bismarck) better in T10 battles than I often play my T10 BBs in T10 battles.  So I've been thinking about this and have come up with a pretty good reason.  I've noticed that the Bismarck has the speed, agility, armor, secondaries, and hydro...that make it perform well in a cruiser role.  I didn't think about playing it this way, I just began to assess how I played it to determine why I did so much better than my T10s.  

And more specifically, the "in the weeds" cruiser role.  You know...on the island maps.  Where you move up to support your DDs on the cap...using terrain to shield from the big guns.  So I often find myself "in the weeds" shielded from the big guns...and engaging DDs and Cruisers.  I can't do this often with the 10 ships because they are big beasts, with slow turrets..slow response, poor maneuverability.  Good Alphas...but don't perform well in terrain.  The Bismarck...on many T10 matches...there are lots of points to be had killing DDs and Cruisers.  And I've also noticed I can sometimes get flank shots on T10 BBs through gaps in terrain that I never seem to get playing the attrition game with my T10 BBs.

There is a tendency to think a T8 BB just can't survive with a bunch of T10s all around.  Playing a T8 like a T10...that might be correct.  But try getting in the weeds.  Use terrain like the cruisers do.  Get in the mix around the caps.  A T8BB can anchor a cap attack (or defense) often better than a T9 or T10 BB.   The enemy brings DDs and CAs.  You bring DDs, CAs..AND a BB (with wicked secondaries and hydro).

So....the next time you take your Bismarck to a T10 game....if you're having difficulty surviving...not doing much for the team.  Play it like a cruiser.  Get in the weeds.  Stomp some unsuspecting DDs and CAs. 

Edited by Soshi_Sone
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Same happens to me, or at least my Damage Numbers are much higher in T10. The higher damage and XP values in no way makes up for the chat entries from the Unicum Wanna B's that tend to flock to T10 battles and have to complain about every player on both teams. T10 battles aren't about skill anymore as they are about how much you can complain about in chat.

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4 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

For many months now I've wondered why I tend top play T8 BBs (mainly my Bismarck) better in T10 battles than I often play my T10 BBs in T10 battles.  So I've been thinking about this and have come up with a pretty good reason.  I've noticed that the Bismarck has the speed, agility, armor, secondaries, and hydro...that make it perform well in a cruiser role.  I didn't think about playing it this way, I just began to assess how I played it to determine why I did so much better than my T10s.  

And more specifically, the "in the weeds" cruiser role.  You know...on the island maps.  Where you move up to support your DDs on the cap...using terrain to shield from the big guns.  So I often find myself "in the weeds" shielded from the big guns...and engaging DDs and Cruisers.  I can't do this often with the 10 ships because they are big beasts, with slow turrets..slow response, poor maneuverability.  Good Alphas...but don't perform well in terrain.  The Bismarck...on many T10 matches...there are lots of points to be had killing DDs and Cruisers.  And I've also noticed I can sometimes get flank shots on T10 BBs through gaps in terrain that I never seem to get playing the attrition game with my T10 BBs.

There is a tendency to think a T8 BB just can't survive with a bunch of T10s all around.  Playing a T8 like a T10...that might be correct.  But try getting in the weeds.  Use terrain like the cruisers do.  Get in the mix around the caps.  A T8BB can anchor a cap attack (or defense) often better than a T9 or T10 BB.   The enemy brings DDs and CAs.  You bring DDs, CAs..AND a BB (with wicked secondaries and hydro).

So....the next time you take your Bismarck to a T10 game....if you're having difficulty surviving...not doing much for the team.  Play it like a cruiser.  Get in the weeds.  Stomp some unsuspecting DDs and CAs. 

I did this last night in Mass with some success until I noticed the 4 T10 BBs on my side were, well, literally at the borders of the map.

The red team BBs had the temerity to push the caps so it didn't end well.

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My best win rate is tier 8 ships. My worst is tier 10. So I went back now in lower tiers to learn more. I am playing the USA cruiser line tier 8 and below to get better at reading the map.

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All you're saying may, and really is, true....but you have one thing working for you that a lot of the other T8 non-BB ships don't have....the ability to heal.

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There is also a natural tendency for players to struggle more with Tier X ships than their prior tiers.  At least at first.  Something I noticed when looking up people's stats, they'll do fine for, say, Tier V-VIII.  Then Tier IX things drop a bit.  Then their new Tier X, it gets a lot worse.

 

Yamato was my first Tier X BB in the game and it was absolutely abysmal for me.  Of course, it didn't help I FreeXP'd out of Izumo, so the crash course of playing a Tier IX-X BB compared to a Tier VIII BB was not something I experienced.  I was getting crushed.  When I got Montana, I still did terrible.  It was only after getting used to the Tier X match environment and the very different playstyle of a Tier X BB did things get better for me.  Montana became my favorite Tier X BB.  I got better with Yamato, but I had done already so many matches with her while being schooled and ignorant of the citadel protection issue, that the stats will take too much playing to dig it out of a sub-50% WR.

 

In RN CLs, I had a similar problem but this was funny because this was very late in my experience as I had plenty of Tier X games already.  I had an amazing time with Neptune.  By far one of the best grind experiences I have ever had in WoWS.  She was a pleasure to use!  When it was time to move onto Minotaur, I had a terrible time on Mino.  Problems abound and I wondered why.  Mino is essentially better in every way than Neptune, especially in the concealment department, yet there I was, struggling with her.  But eventually things turned around and I got a lot better with her.

 

Regarding Tier VIII BBs compared to Tier IX-X ones, they have one thing for them that the IX-X BBs lack.  VIII BBs have some semblance of a balance on speed and maneuverability.  You get into a bad position in a Tier IX-X BB, it's too late already, you're going to die or you'll barely escape while being battered down.  The Tier VIII BBs generally have enough speed and maneuverability, as well as concealment to "Go Dark" or turn around quickly enough before it gets stupid.  I can take an emergency 180 degree turn with Alabama and expect a high degree of surviving.  I try the same thing with Iowa / Missouri, Yamato, Izumo, etc., I'm dead.  IX-X BBs are too sluggish to respond with maneuvers.  Some are very fast (30-33kts even), but starting and completing turns in emergencies?  Nah, they suck, and are vulnerable.

 

VIII BBs are last BB tier where there's a good balance of firepower, speed, protection, handling.  The IX BBs get the better protection and firepower, but handling goes to the sh*tters.  The worse handling alone can make things difficult to adjust to.

 

I love my Montana.  But there are plenty of times I really miss my Alabama's handling.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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6 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

For many months now I've wondered why I tend top play T8 BBs (mainly my Bismarck) better in T10 battles than I often play my T10 BBs in T10 battles.  So I've been thinking about this and have come up with a pretty good reason.  I've noticed that the Bismarck has the speed, agility, armor, secondaries, and hydro...that make it perform well in a cruiser role.  I didn't think about playing it this way, I just began to assess how I played it to determine why I did so much better than my T10s.  

And more specifically, the "in the weeds" cruiser role.  You know...on the island maps.  Where you move up to support your DDs on the cap...using terrain to shield from the big guns.  So I often find myself "in the weeds" shielded from the big guns...and engaging DDs and Cruisers.  I can't do this often with the 10 ships because they are big beasts, with slow turrets..slow response, poor maneuverability.  Good Alphas...but don't perform well in terrain.  The Bismarck...on many T10 matches...there are lots of points to be had killing DDs and Cruisers.  And I've also noticed I can sometimes get flank shots on T10 BBs through gaps in terrain that I never seem to get playing the attrition game with my T10 BBs.

There is a tendency to think a T8 BB just can't survive with a bunch of T10s all around.  Playing a T8 like a T10...that might be correct.  But try getting in the weeds.  Use terrain like the cruisers do.  Get in the mix around the caps.  A T8BB can anchor a cap attack (or defense) often better than a T9 or T10 BB.   The enemy brings DDs and CAs.  You bring DDs, CAs..AND a BB (with wicked secondaries and hydro).

So....the next time you take your Bismarck to a T10 game....if you're having difficulty surviving...not doing much for the team.  Play it like a cruiser.  Get in the weeds.  Stomp some unsuspecting DDs and CAs. 

i do that all the tiime with my Tirpitz in T10 battles....hell not only she can do a number on them CA and DDs...freak BBs too...it happens ...Montana Yamato...crazy enough to come and "Weed" around them island...hell i did a circle around a Yamato ...was epic and funny at the same time.  

less then 4k, turned a corner to engage a yamato(full heath).  1 knew she was there cause planes spotted her.  came into view from that corner my 2nds start lighting Yamato up like a christmas tree on fire!  i guess was the Capt got shocked that i came around ....cause she ran aground. fired starboard torp (all for hit)...made a massive u trun came within 1km from scratching paint, then fired port torps(all four hit).  she bad shape less than 1k hp left on her...but before my main could reload...my secondaries finished her off... sailed off to kill a montana and a minotaur....

So...i wouldn't count out what a good T8 ship can do to them T10s

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I have the same problem with T8 cruisers...I'm better in them in T10 battles than I am in T10 ships.  Still mediocre, but better.

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I concur with Haze on the balance of speed and maneuver. I’m still scrub enough that I need the maneuverability. I’m happy to play my North Carolina or Alabama like a fat cruiser if required. The concealment is better than my Hindenburg, for example. The rudder and speed are only a little worse. 

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