Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
murder_0ne

Acasta and Icarus are garbage. Jervis is decent, Lightning is great

27 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
29 posts
2,745 battles

So many threads regarding the Acasta and Icarus saying "you just have to play better", "you don't understand the RNDD play style yet if you're not successful"...

That's garbage.

The bottom line is that both Acasta and Icarus are gunboats, but due to the terrible traverse and lousy shell velocity your guns can't keep up with targets while turning during short range fights and ships can easily dodge the slow shells at even medium range. When you switch sides the turrets have to reverse through their entire arc before you can bring them to bare against your target. Plus the concealment on both is poor combined with little or no stealth fire range for your torps and both boats suck. Compounding the problems are the slow speed, no speed boost and low health pool. When I'm in another Tier 5 DD and I see an Acasta or Icarus, I just charge at it with zero fear of losing as I know how outmatched they are. Oh, and HORRIBLE torp tube angles and rotation. Total crap.

Its not that I "don't know how to play", its that there are far superior DDs to use instead of the Acasta or Icarus.

The Jervis is decent in that its rear turret can traverse 360 degrees so its much easier to keep the guns on target, plus the traverse is much faster. And you finally get 1km or so of stealth fire range. Huge improvement over the Icarus. One huge downside of the Jervis is that its torps don't rotate 360 degrees and the torp angles are TERRIBLE. What the heck was WG thinking? Just horrible. 

The Lightning is amazing. It's the Jervis on steroids. And for one specific reason. Stealth. 5.5km concealment is just brilliant. The Lightning is otherwise a Jervis clone besides the concealment. Reducing the concealment to 5.5km and suddenly you're capable of *so* much more when fighting just about any type of ship. Just don't get radared. The big downside to the Lightning is that its Tier 8 so you're constantly bottom tier in Tier 10 games where EVERYONE has radar. If its a cruiser, you can bet it has radar. Half the DDs do as well. And don't forget the occasional Tier 9 BB. Oh, and still with the terrible torp tube angles and rotation. Having to give the target full broadside EVERY TIME you want to launch a torp is garbage.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles

Tier 6 can stealth torp with 10 point captain.

Tier 5 can output some good DPM. 

Tier 7 is a beast.

Tier gets too many tier 10 matches and suffers from it.

If she is top tier she is good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,370
[RKLES]
Members
7,540 posts
9,560 battles
1 hour ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Tier 6 can stealth torp with 10 point captain.

Tier 5 can output some good DPM. 

Tier 7 is a beast.

Tier gets too many tier 10 matches and suffers from it.

If she is top tier she is good.

Got any good replays to show the way... :Smile_trollface::cap_popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
29 posts
2,745 battles
8 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Tier 6 can stealth torp with 10 point captain.

Tier 5 can output some good DPM. 

Tier 7 is a beast.

Tier gets too many tier 10 matches and suffers from it.

If she is top tier she is good.

Tier 5 Acasta's turret angles are so bad you can only employ 2 of the 4 guns at any given time *OR* you have to basically give full broadside to the target to use all 4 guns. So your actual effective on-target DPM is literally half of what it is on paper. Couple that with the slow turret traverse and having to rotate through the entire arc to switch sides during a fight and you're probably down to 30% of effective damage output vs. the theoretical maximum.

Tier 6 Icarus *can* stealth torp with everything maxed (10 point captain, camo) but its only a 1km differential which is almost useless.

Tier 7 Jervis is outstanding compared to the Tier 5/6 RNDDs, but only average compared to every other Tier 7 DD. RNDD players are super impressed with the Jervis because its such a huge step up from the Acasta and Icarus they forget how good the other Tier 7 DDs are.

Tier 8 Lightning gets ruined by matchmaking. Indeed, when its top tier its simply amazing. It is still fairly viable in Tier 9 games. All too often its the lone Tier 8 in a completely Tier 10 game.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles
25 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

Tier 5 Acasta's turret angles are so bad you can only employ 2 of the 4 guns at any given time *OR* you have to basically give full broadside to the target to use all 4 guns. So your actual effective on-target DPM is literally half of what it is on paper. Couple that with the slow turret traverse and having to rotate through the entire arc to switch sides during a fight and you're probably down to 30% of effective damage output vs. the theoretical maximum.

Tier 6 Icarus *can* stealth torp with everything maxed (10 point captain, camo) but its only a 1km differential which is almost useless.

Tier 7 Jervis is outstanding compared to the Tier 5/6 RNDDs, but only average compared to every other Tier 7 DD. RNDD players are super impressed with the Jervis because its such a huge step up from the Acasta and Icarus they forget how good the other Tier 7 DDs are.

Tier 8 Lightning gets ruined by matchmaking. Indeed, when its top tier its simply amazing. It is still fairly viable in Tier 9 games. All too often its the lone Tier 8 in a completely Tier 10 game.

But why do I find the Icarus enjoyable? It might not be a good destroyer, but I do enjoy it.

The Jervis is very enjoyable to play. Sure there are premiums that outpace her , but she is very enjoyable to play.

I had enough exp from early release to unlock lightening upon release.... still feeling that boat out.

....

Your observations on the tier 5 might be why she struggles in PvP...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36
[UTWE]
Members
210 posts
2,841 battles

I have a very different opinion. I LOVED Acasta, thought Icarus was decent currently I'm on Jervis which I think is amazing.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[KRAK]
Members
851 posts
11,049 battles

I have about 33% win rate at 40 games in Jervis, average about 13K damage. survived 5 battles, With the same torps between Jervis and Icaris, I think the I Icaris is easier to play. Have better stats with it, and a 53% win rate. Jervis I find completely outclassed in games with T9 DDs. So don't try very hard with it early, but still not effective later on either. I have more than a few Jervis games with no damage done, just a spotting ribbon and maybe a cap ribbon.

Edited by Ericson38
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
10 posts
4,321 battles

I have the American DD line to T7, German to T6, and Japanese to T6 (torp line...not the gunboat line).  I also have the Haida and then Gallant. So far the Icarus and Jervis have been my favorite DD's I have played so far and I just unlocked the Lightning last night.  I played the Icarus a great deal and loved every game.  I would just hunt the enemy DD's and kill them. 

I cannot speak for the Acasta as I didn't really play it.  Got the crates to unlock the Acasta and the Icarus the same night so I didn't need to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[KRAK]
Members
851 posts
11,049 battles

Jervis gets a concealment of 6.3 km and a torp range of 7 km. Mahan has a 2 km range differential. I do way more damage with my guns, but average damage still a paltry 10K. I do better in Icaris, has same torps, no T9 players encountered.

Edited by Ericson38

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[KRAK]
Members
851 posts
11,049 battles

Lightning, 1st game against T-8-9-10, 42K damage, 3 torps hit BB. What a great little DD. Detection is 5.5 km, torp range is 8 km, reload is a very quick 86 seconds, 61 kts. Everything wrong with Jervis is remedied in Lightning.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35
[BIER]
Members
139 posts
2,244 battles
On 10/25/2018 at 3:13 PM, dEsTurbed1 said:

Tier 6 can stealth torp with 10 point captain.

Tier 5 can output some good DPM. 

Tier 7 is a beast.

Tier gets too many tier 10 matches and suffers from it.

If she is top tier she is good.

It's rare for the T6 to have a 10-point captain. Without it, it has a tiny stealth torp window. And bad guns.

T5 can't hit crap with those guns. They're worse than the US for shell arcs. And the slow turret traverse means that it's easy to lose a gun duel with an IJN DD, of all things.

T7 REQUIRES a 10-point captain. Which many people don't have. It's medicore - much better than the T6 and under, but still significantly inferior to it's T7 competition, let alone the T8+ stuff it regularly faces. It's only OK when it can be top-tier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles
1 minute ago, LAnybody said:

It's rare for the T6 to have a 10-point captain. Without it, it has a tiny stealth torp window. And bad guns.

T5 can't hit crap with those guns. They're worse than the US for shell arcs. And the slow turret traverse means that it's easy to lose a gun duel with an IJN DD, of all things.

T7 REQUIRES a 10-point captain. Which many people don't have. It's medicore - much better than the T6 and under, but still significantly inferior to it's T7 competition, let alone the T8+ stuff it regularly faces. It's only OK when it can be top-tier.

I got early access to tier 5 to 7 in the British containers.

I bought Dasha 10 point British captain. 

PT,LS,SE & CE.

the stealth of these ships totally change their play.

I played Jervis enough to unlock lightening without using any FXP, once she was introduced in tech tree.

I played all 3, while rotating Dasha, to get to  13 points. By using lightening,  she had 14 points in time to unlock Jutland. 

.....

These destroyers are strong, but require 10 point captain to get the most out of them. They are not push battle insta win machines, but by playing to their strengths, can be extremely good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35
[BIER]
Members
139 posts
2,244 battles
1 minute ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

These destroyers are strong, but require 10 point captain to get the most out of them. They are not push battle insta win machines, but by playing to their strengths, can be extremely good.

Except they *have no strengths*, except retreating.  "running away" is not a strength.

Every single thing they do is done better by at least HALF of their opposition.  That's a recipe for "Jack-of-All-Trades, Sucking-At-All".

 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
580
[WORX]
Members
2,009 posts
13,507 battles

Icarus- If you liked IJN Torp DD, this ship is a challenge with its limited but still viable steal torp capabilities. I may have to replace the FUBUKI with her, compare to the IJN DD guns, its a challenge upgrade from he FUBUKI.

 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles
3 minutes ago, LAnybody said:

Except they *have no strengths*, except retreating.  "running away" is not a strength.

Every single thing they do is done better by at least HALF of their opposition.  That's a recipe for "Jack-of-All-Trades, Sucking-At-All".

 

Have you tried shooting AP with them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35
[BIER]
Members
139 posts
2,244 battles
3 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Have you tried shooting AP with them?

Yes. The guns still suck prior to T7.  The AP doesn't do any better than the HE, because the ballistics still are awful, and the penetration on anything but DDs is very bad. Not to mention that they don't get favorable pen angles, so a DD running away from you will bounce your AP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles
1 hour ago, LAnybody said:

Yes. The guns still suck prior to T7.  The AP doesn't do any better than the HE, because the ballistics still are awful, and the penetration on anything but DDs is very bad. Not to mention that they don't get favorable pen angles, so a DD running away from you will bounce your AP.

Is it only Jutland & Daring the only ones to get advanced pen angles?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35
[BIER]
Members
139 posts
2,244 battles
14 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Is it only Jutland & Daring the only ones to get advanced pen angles?

 

To my knowledge, NONE of the RN DDs get the better pen angles. Only the RN CLs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[KRAK]
Members
851 posts
11,049 battles

I have a 10K average damage with Lightning, was twice as good with Minekazi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[KRAK]
Members
851 posts
11,049 battles
On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:55 PM, murder_0ne said:

So many threads regarding the Acasta and Icarus saying "you just have to play better", "you don't understand the RNDD play style yet if you're not successful"...

That's garbage.

The bottom line is that both Acasta and Icarus are gunboats, but due to the terrible traverse and lousy shell velocity your guns can't keep up with targets while turning during short range fights and ships can easily dodge the slow shells at even medium range. When you switch sides the turrets have to reverse through their entire arc before you can bring them to bare against your target. Plus the concealment on both is poor combined with little or no stealth fire range for your torps and both boats suck. Compounding the problems are the slow speed, no speed boost and low health pool. When I'm in another Tier 5 DD and I see an Acasta or Icarus, I just charge at it with zero fear of losing as I know how outmatched they are. Oh, and HORRIBLE torp tube angles and rotation. Total crap.

Its not that I "don't know how to play", its that there are far superior DDs to use instead of the Acasta or Icarus.

The Jervis is decent in that its rear turret can traverse 360 degrees so its much easier to keep the guns on target, plus the traverse is much faster. And you finally get 1km or so of stealth fire range. Huge improvement over the Icarus. One huge downside of the Jervis is that its torps don't rotate 360 degrees and the torp angles are TERRIBLE. What the heck was WG thinking? Just horrible. 

The Lightning is amazing. It's the Jervis on steroids. And for one specific reason. Stealth. 5.5km concealment is just brilliant. The Lightning is otherwise a Jervis clone besides the concealment. Reducing the concealment to 5.5km and suddenly you're capable of *so* much more when fighting just about any type of ship. Just don't get radared. The big downside to the Lightning is that its Tier 8 so you're constantly bottom tier in Tier 10 games where EVERYONE has radar. If its a cruiser, you can bet it has radar. Half the DDs do as well. And don't forget the occasional Tier 9 BB. Oh, and still with the terrible torp tube angles and rotation. Having to give the target full broadside EVERY TIME you want to launch a torp is garbage.

Hold on, 1/2 the T10 DDs have RADAR ? SInce when and which ones if you may ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
63
[WMD]
Members
202 posts
5,741 battles
1 hour ago, LAnybody said:

To my knowledge, NONE of the RN DDs get the better pen angles. Only the RN CLs.

Jutland and Daring both get better angles, but you still need IFHE to make best use of the guns. 

Edited by VeatherVitch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles
2 hours ago, LAnybody said:

To my knowledge, NONE of the RN DDs get the better pen angles. Only the RN CLs.

You might want to check. I know the 113mm do.

I am not sure on 120mm guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35
[BIER]
Members
139 posts
2,244 battles
2 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

You might want to check. I know the 113mm do.

I am not sure on 120mm guns.

Then they haven't updated the Wiki. Because NONE of them are listed as having improved angles.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration#Armor-Piercing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35
[BIER]
Members
139 posts
2,244 battles

And I'm just about to give up on the whole line. It's just utter crap.

Without a 10-point captain, the Jervis is unplayable. Heck, with it, it's still unplayable. It can't do ANYTHING.

Can't cap. Can't fight other DDs (i'm getting murdered by IJN guns because mine do so little), can't torp. can't spot well. smoke is useless.

 

There's just no redeeming quality about the whole line. They don't do anything at all well. The KM DDs are radically better as Jack-of-All-Trades. 

Literally, the only thing they do well is retreat. That's it. They can't compete with their peers on any level.

Edited by LAnybody

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
651
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
3,570 posts
12,220 battles

Jervis 23 wins, 62% win rate.

1400 avg exp.

24k avg damage.

My overall win rate 48%...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×