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NightTerror

German Large Caliber BB Guns

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Playing my GK last night I got to thinking about the shorter range on its guns, around 20 km on my fit.  Some T9 and T10 BBs have 3-7 km longer ranges on their guns.  Looking online at Wikipedia, NAVWEAPS, etc, I found that even the 15" German gun (38cm SKC/34 had ranges between 35km and 55 km, depending on shell and charges.  The 40.6 cm/52 and the 42cm/48 were similar in range.

 

So why the short range on the GK?  No one wants 12 shells going 27km?

 

NT

 

Edited by NightTerror

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3 minutes ago, Melancholic_Ghost said:

With how horrible German BB's dispersion gets at long ranges.... do you really want that?

 

Once and a while you get lucky......

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Just now, NightTerror said:

 

Once and a while you get lucky......

 

well, yes, that's true.... but why loaf around hoping a shell or two will hit, when you can get in there and at least have some impact as to where your shells will go.

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I agree.  I am not a BB camper, no matter which class or nation.  In the GK I always put up the spotter plane on the way to objective and try to hit something at longer range.  Sometimes it works.  

My question was more in game design, why the shorter ranges on German BBs?  Is it due to the bad dispersion, or is it something else?

 

NT

 

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height of the target directors and other associated systems above the water level?

 

most main guns can fire much further than they can target another ship due to the curvature of the earth, the extra range above that is only of use for in-land bombardment, as you can know your position if you have the coast in sight by accurate triangulation and because you are trying to hit a position on a map, you can establish a range and bearing without the need to optically sight it or later get a radar range and bearing.

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1 hour ago, NightTerror said:

Playing my GK last night I got to thinking about the shorter range on its guns, around 20 km on my fit.  Some T9 and T10 BBs have 3-7 km longer ranges on their guns.  Looking online at Wikipedia, NAVWEAPS, etc, I found that even the 15" German gun (38cm SKC/34 had ranges between 35km and 55 km, depending on shell and charges.  The 40.6 cm/52 and the 42cm/48 were similar in range.

 

So why the short range on the GK?  No one wants 12 shells going 27km?

 

NT

 

Game balance and German BB's don't even start to shine until they get to about 15 Km.

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1 hour ago, NightTerror said:

Playing my GK last night I got to thinking about the shorter range on its guns, around 20 km on my fit.  Some T9 and T10 BBs have 3-7 km longer ranges on their guns.  Looking online at Wikipedia, NAVWEAPS, etc, I found that even the 15" German gun (38cm SKC/34 had ranges between 35km and 55 km, depending on shell and charges.  The 40.6 cm/52 and the 42cm/48 were similar in range.

 

So why the short range on the GK?  No one wants 12 shells going 27km?

Because WoW is not a simulation; its an arcade game with [some] historic ship models. My understanding is the ship models are double the size they should be based on the distances in game, and time is compressed. Think of how large the maps would need to be to accommodate the true range of the guns, and how patient players would need to be to deal with the realism of how inaccurate they would be at that range, except maybe for the scenes like Cherry Blossom that include shore bomardment.

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It's not just KMS ships, it's almost every ship. For comparison, the 127mms of the USN DDs could reach 16km when elevated at 45 degrees. 

Space, time and sizes are different ingame than in reality. Add to that game balance with KMS BBs considered brawlers and you got your answer. In order to deal with all these changes in the game tweaks on the firing ranges was done. 

If Yamato had her real range, she would be able to fire across every map.

Edited by warheart1992

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Main gun firing range on all ships in this game is heavily cut down. This to improve the pace of battle. Imagine how long matches would take when you can open fire on eachother from 30 ~ 40km away.

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12 minutes ago, Lert said:

Main gun firing range on all ships in this game is heavily cut down. This to improve the pace of battle. Imagine how long matches would take when you can open fire on eachother from 30 ~ 40km away.

I understand this.  My question was why similar sized guns of different nations have such a drastically different max range, which was answered.  The long range stupidity is vexing enough at 20km.

 

I also get that 1/3 of the forum says "Its an arcade game. Just do whatever you want!", 1/3 says "The citadel on Yamato is 2.5 cm too high, fix it!" and the final 33% doesn't really care.  I am in the last 1/3, but would just like to know why things are the way they are.

 

Thanks for responses.

 

NT

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54 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Game balance and German BB's don't even start to shine until they get to about 15 Km.

I always thought your secondaries were your range finders on the German BBs. When the secondaries touch off, you're actually close enough to hit something with the main battery. You know, the Fuso effect.

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if your optical observation height is 30m above the sea, then the horizon is ~19.55km away, if another ship is 35km away the lower ~18.73m of it is hidden, and that's assuming a perfectly smooth sphere, add in waves where you are, the horizon is and where the other ship is, and both the horizon distance gets shortened and the other ship can be closer while hiding more of itself, likewise because the bottom half of the other ship is hidden, you will have trouble identifying it, its size and its distance beyond the horizon etc.

 

which is why not much has been hit ship-wise much above 24km.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, NightTerror said:

I understand this.  My question was why similar sized guns of different nations have such a drastically different max range, which was answered.  The long range stupidity is vexing enough at 20km.

 

I also get that 1/3 of the forum says "Its an arcade game. Just do whatever you want!", 1/3 says "The citadel on Yamato is 2.5 cm too high, fix it!" and the final 33% doesn't really care.  I am in the last 1/3, but would just like to know why things are the way they are.

 

Thanks for responses.

 

NT

The gun ranges on battleships are balanced in accordance with their intended role.  German battleships are built to be brawlers, so their maximum main battery firing range (and accuracy) is reduced in an effort to force players to close distances where they're more effective.  Otherwise, with the way the game ends up playing, you'd have players attempting to duel enemy Yamato's in their Kurfurst from 25km away, and then coming back to the forums and complaining their ships are so awful.  The Montana and Conqueror are designed to operate more in the mid range, and Yamato is especially adept at long range engagements.  The Republique a unique bird, and in my opinion has very long firing range because it's built to be the true "Jack of All Trades" at T10 (not the Montana).  It is the only ship that can be effectively operated as a long range bully, a close-in brawler, or a powerful AA boat and not suck at it, but not be so effective in these roles that they overshadow the others.

And quite frankly, given the dispersion of German ships, you wouldn't want to be firing at targets that far away anyways.

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