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axyarthur

a better border

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So right now the map borders are "hard" in that you cannot ever cross it and when you hit it it creates weird physics for ships that is unrealistic. I'm thinking is it possible to move toward a "softer" border that let ships behave more naturally while still punishing players that sail beyond it?

Instead having an invisible physical boundary, ships are free to sail beyond map borders physically. However, when their ship goes beyond the borders, a warning message appears to warn the players to sail back into map area within certain time limit, say maybe 15 -30s depending on ship type. If after said amount of time and ship still outside borders, player's ship will start taking damage (unrepairable) until it sinks. The player will also get pink status for dying this way. Also, if ship spends certain amount of time  beyond border in a match, they will also turn pink and the next time they violate border, it will start taking damage, increasing rapidly if they keep violating the border. Repeated border violations over successive games can also get orange status to discourage players to abuse the system.

Does this border system work? and is it a better system over the existing one?

Here are the pros / cons as I see them:

pros:

  • ships cannot "border hug" to evades shells / torpedoes anymore. Ship movement physics would be exactly the same on the border and beyond
  • less immersion-breaking by not having an invisible "force field" that forces ships to turn back. After all, there are no map borders in real oceans
  • there is less incentive to "border hug" now and punishment system discourages players from repeated offense, where as now there is no punishment for "border hug"

cons:

  • requires new programming on maps / punishment system, resources that WG may not have / want to spend
  • system can be exploited if players "experiment" and figure out exactly how long they have to spend outside before turning pink
  • is the border really a problem that needs to be fixed?

Well, those are my thoughts, feel free to comment and share your thoughts whether such a change is good or even necessary.

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It is a good idea but it is also highly unlikely to see the light of day. :Smile_great:

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Why?

What's the fascination with causing damage. Every time one of these suggestions comes up it's "cause damage", "they take damage", "it does damage". Why? Why so bloodthirsty?

Also, it takes some ships more than 30s just to turn around 180.

Also also, you mention realism - yeah, taking damage without someone shooting at you is 'realistic'.

So ...

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36 minutes ago, Lert said:

Why?

What's the fascination with causing damage. Every time one of these suggestions comes up it's "cause damage", "they take damage", "it does damage". Why? Why so bloodthirsty?

Also, it takes some ships more than 30s just to turn around 180.

Also also, you mention realism - yeah, taking damage without someone shooting at you is 'realistic'.

 

well, the main reason for this proposal is that I dislike the artificial boundary placed on maps. But game play wise, we have to limit the battle area, so maybe there's a better way to do it than the current hard limit.

The different parameters can be tuned, if 30s is not enough, maybe 40, 45, 1 min?

If we do away with physical hard boundary, there has to be a way to keep players from going indefinitely away from map. Taking damage is one idea I have. If not a good one, what would you suggest? Maybe just disconnect player and send him back to port? is that better than taking damage?

I understand this is not a major problem in the game, and it's not likely that WG will spend resources to fix it, but still something I would like to change.

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6 minutes ago, axyarthur said:

Taking damage is one idea I have. If not a good one, what would you suggest? Maybe just disconnect player and send him back to port? is that better than taking damage?

Again with a destructive idea. "We must punish them, harshly!" Why so bloodthirsty?

One possible idea would be to take over command of helm and propulsion and force-steer them back into the battle area. But, personally, I think that's completely unnecessary as well. Personally - and this is just my personal opinion - the current situation is fine, and there is no need for a change. Is it realistic? No, but nor are hit points, magic 'stop flooding and fire now' buttons, radar that goes through islands and is only on for small periods of time, torpedoes reloading in two minutes at most, etc etc etc. This game isn't realistic. It's not trying to be.

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They make a great target for CV's in that I can take my planes....out of bounds mind you, to get the angle on the helpless fool to hit him broadside with full torp spread and they are hung up on the border so they can not maneuver to evade....poor fools.

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Isn’t it punishing enough that they are completely useless to their team if they are humping the border? What’s the point of changing how the borders are implemented now?

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The border issue has been discussed many times and many game companies have had their own solutions. WOW has chosen the present version which I think is pretty liberal. Other game versions will announce you are now out of bounds and you have so many seconds to get back into the fight in the proper zone which you came from. In so many seconds you take continuous  damage till you die.   With that system and the enemy shooting you...more than likely you will last a lot less I would imagine. In some ways if you lose your engine..its possible you can't make it back in time to cross into the legal game zone.   The other way would be to model all the borders with land masses but then it would look like a sandbox.

I think the present solution is as best as it can get with all the benefits  possible.   AS Always..your results will vary..

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@axyarthur the border already reduces your power until you turn away from it. Hugging it is no advantage and those who do so as a regular tactic are idiots!

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How about instead of a border,we have endless maps.

   Go east,ships comes out on west side,go north and ship comes out on south side.

and just think,no more camping !!

 

 

  

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2 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@axyarthur the border already reduces your power until you turn away from it. Hugging it is no advantage and those who do so as a regular tactic are idiots!

Agreed totally...when you see someone stuck at the border its like a fly stuck in a fly trap which in turn is a magnet for everyone to fire upon and with much glee mind you!  I can hear the laughter....in my mind...

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I think that there's something to @axyarthur's idea of a less hard border.  But I agree with @Lert that using a destructive mechanic is a no-go.  

I could imagine taking the existing maps and treating the outermost "ring" of map grid squares as the soft border.  However, all of the existing maps have been designed with the idea that that outermost ring is part of the legitimate map.  And turning them into a border ring would seem to affect the dynamics of many maps.  Not all maps would be equally affected by this.  And, heck, not all parts of the same map would be equally affected.  Think of the Okinawa map.  The NE and SW parts of that map rarely come into play, but the NW corner near the A cap comes into play a lot.  And losing part of the edge row/column around the A cap would be rather limiting, since the overall A cap region is so tightly wedged up into that corner.  

Beyond that, what does one do with this border region that would matter but not be destructive?  Maybe reduce engine power, but not as severely as it is currently, if a ship enters this region?  (And keep the current engine power reduction if you make contact with the hard border.)  But what's the real benefit to doing this?  The idea that there is not hard border?  But there has to be a hard border.  The map cannot be unlimited in size.  If so, then the question is this, how close to the hard border is still legitimate map space and how wide would the "soft border" be?  Right now, there is no soft border region, only the hard border.

Honestly, I don't see where there's really much to be gained from changing the current system.  

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