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RobertViktor68

Dev blog announced CE change

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10% CE across the board.  Predict more border / long range shooting.  I don't think this is a good idea.

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This change is currently in testing, but definitely let us know what you think.  Why are you for or against the change?

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Scrubs will still camp whatever reasons there may be.

CE changes is actually a good idea, making BBs not as stealthy as cruisers are, and making radar cruisers more visible.

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I don't like it as i configure my BBs for greater concealment with it but if it does go through do we get a refund of those 4 skill points?

Edited by Lampshade_M1A2

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Was there a problem spotting Battleships? The things that are hard to spot aren't affected. Although I think this a good change it seems all get nerfed but DDs.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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Love buffs to my Republique and HIV.

Whisper whisper, their captains don’t have CE.

Edit: Remove unintentional quote.

Edited by SmokeHenge

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4 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Was there a problem spotting Battleships? The things that are hard to spot aren't affected. Although I think this a good change it seems all get nerfed but DDs.

High tier usn battleboats often spec concealment down to the 12-13km range, which lets them get a lot closer before being spotted while not firing. Helps get in dangerous ranges against cruisers or go dark when fleeing.

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1 minute ago, Gramzon_the_Dragon said:

High tier usn battleboats often spec concealment down to the 12-13km range, which lets them get a lot closer before being spotted while not firing. Helps get in dangerous ranges against cruisers or go dark when fleeing.

Also some cruisers can stealth Radar. The thing to do would be to fix individual ships but they would run into a problem with Premiums if they did that, so this seems to be the only option left.

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31 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

This change is currently in testing, but definitely let us know what you think.  Why are you for or against the change?

I would love to see Concealment Expert replaced by a Camouflage Expert skill that increases the dispersion of incoming gunfire on the ship.  (Ditto for the Concealment Upgrade module.)  And if ships needed to have their base concealments tweaked in response, so be it.  These two concealment related things seem OP to me because there's no way that a similar DD that doesn't have a 10 point captain or access to the tier 8 module can counter them.  But camouflage isn't all or nothing.  You can still spot and land hits on enemy ships that have camo.  All you need is a little better aim and/or some friendly RNG, etc.

As for this change to Concealment Expert, I have no problem with it, though obviously the larger the ship, the greater the effect the change will have.

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13 minutes ago, Gramzon_the_Dragon said:

High tier usn battleboats often spec concealment down to the 12-13km range, which lets them get a lot closer before being spotted while not firing. Helps get in dangerous ranges against cruisers or go dark when fleeing.

I wouldn't pin it as a major factor, but this nerf would seem like a slight push towards longer range engagements.

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21 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Was there a problem spotting Battleships? The things that are hard to spot aren't affected. Although I think this a good change it seems all get nerfed but DDs.

I think that the idea, Dawg, is for there to be a single, unified standard buff for CE rather than one for each ship type.

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The only player group this hurts is cruisers, any additional concealment on them hurts, it will also suck for some CVs with massive detection ranges.

 

Why are we even doing this, there is no problem solved here that would not be better solved by just tweaking the few offenders that can achieve out of line concealment ranges for their class, just fix those 2 or 3 ships... just feels like this game is on a vicious dumb down cycle, just remove smoke and give everyone their stock concealment, stealth as a game mechanic has been getting removed little by little for the last year or more, just stop this trickle crap and get rid of concealment all together if that is the route WG wants to take. 

 

 

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Leave it alone. It does not need fixing. When cruisers can get down under 9km and DDs get as low as 5.4km, BBs are at a disadvantage as soon as they open fire if they come down to mid-range killing distance when configured with a CE captain and the concealment module. My high tier BBs are all configured with it, and my captains in those ships all have CE as their 1st level 4 skill, before anything else. The only BB that needs fixing is Missouri with her radar.

IMHO, it would be better to remove radar altogether from the game than to make this change if they refuse to recode radar so that it becomes line-of-sight like in real life, i.e., no seeing through islands. Otherwise, only the DDs get any real benefit from this change as they are the least affected.

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7 minutes ago, Cpt_RickSchwifty said:

The only player group this hurts is cruisers, any additional concealment on them hurts, it will also suck for some CVs with massive detection ranges.

 

Why are we even doing this, there is no problem solved here that would not be better solved by just tweaking the few offenders that can achieve out of line concealment ranges for their class, just fix those 2 or 3 ships... just feels like this game is on a vicious dumb down cycle, just remove smoke and give everyone their stock concealment, stealth as a game mechanic has been getting removed little by little for the last year or more, just stop this trickle crap and get rid of concealment all together if that is the route WG wants to take. 

 

 

I think that the perceived problem is in having 4 different buffs, one for each ship type.  The devs seem to be on a bit of a kick to simplify things by creating unified standards, whether it's for hydro or concealment or whatever.

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I know everyone has been begging you folks at WG to fix CE, but maybe could you fix the operations channel in game.

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47 minutes ago, Gramzon_the_Dragon said:

High tier usn battleboats often spec concealment down to the 12-13km range, which lets them get a lot closer before being spotted while not firing. Helps get in dangerous ranges against cruisers or go dark when fleeing.

 

This is the current CE skill of -14%

NC base conceal 15.66km and the max conceal is 11.8km

AL base conceal 16.2km and the max conceal is 12.2km

MA base conceal 16.56km and the max conceal is 12.4km

IA base conceal 16.2km and the max conceal is 12.2km

MO base conceal 16.2km and the max conceal is 12.2km

MT base conceal 17.82km and the max conceal is 13.4km

 

New CE skill of -10%

NC base conceal 15.66km and the max conceal is 12.3km for a difference of 0.5km

AL base conceal 16.2km and the max conceal is 12.7km for a difference of 0.5km

MA base conceal 16.56km and the max conceal is 13km for a difference of 0.6km

IA base conceal 16.2km and the max conceal is 12.7km for a difference of 0.5km

MO base conceal 16.2km and the max conceal is 12.7km for a difference of 0.5km

MT base conceal 17.82km and the max conceal is 14km for a difference of 0.6km

 

Not a big difference in IMO. Especially once you start firing.

Edited by Kizarvexis
Wiki had the wrong AL base conceal
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WG is the king of unintended consequences....

Intention: Make large ships less stealthy and more engaged in the fight.

Actual result: Make large ships even more scared than they are now, and force them even further back on the map......:Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

I think that the perceived problem is in having 4 different buffs, one for each ship type.  The devs seem to be on a bit of a kick to simplify things by creating unified standards, whether it's for hydro or concealment or whatever.

I get that, and that is historically when the death of games begin. There is nothing wrong with scaling the CE perk that game has been balanced around it for years, you have less than 5 ships in the game right now that are broken as it stands, fix them. You don't risk breaking the entire balance of things by suddenly adding a few KM to the detection ranges of all large ships and still leave the ones breaking the system unaffected.

 

Hell you know what its going to be like playing a Lexington in T10 with a 16km concealment? You will be blown out of the water by BBs from 25+ Km away all for the sake of NOT changing the concealment on a conqueror? 

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7 minutes ago, Cpt_RickSchwifty said:

I get that, and that is historically when the death of games begin. There is nothing wrong with scaling the CE perk that game has been balanced around it for years, you have less than 5 ships in the game right now that are broken as it stands, fix them. You don't risk breaking the entire balance of things by suddenly adding a few KM to the detection ranges of all large ships and still leave the ones breaking the system unaffected.

 

Hell you know what its going to be like playing a Lexington in T10 with a 16km concealment? You will be blown out of the water by BBs from 25+ Km away all for the sake of NOT changing the concealment on a conqueror? 

If it seems to be a problem for some ships, they can always buff their base concealments.  I personally like the inherent simplicity of a single standard buff.

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I would love to see Concealment Expert replaced by a Camouflage Expert skill that increases the dispersion of incoming gunfire on the ship.  (Ditto for the Concealment Upgrade module.)  And if ships needed to have their base concealments tweaked in response, so be it.  These two concealment related things seem OP to me because there's no way that a similar DD that doesn't have a 10 point captain or access to the tier 8 module can counter them.  But camouflage isn't all or nothing.  You can still spot and land hits on enemy ships that have camo.  All you need is a little better aim and/or some friendly RNG, etc.

As for this change to Concealment Expert, I have no problem with it, though obviously the larger the ship, the greater the effect the change will have.

There is a module that increases dispersion by more than concealment module (which does +5% dispersion) - the Minotaur Legendary Upgrade gives +10% dispersion to the ship firing at it at a cost of concealment.

With all the various buffs and counters to dispersion, aiming systems and special modules vs. modules and camouflage it doesn't seem to have a great impact. I think though that it would be worth exploring more.

5 minutes ago, awiggin said:

WG is the king of unintended consequences....

Intention: Make large ships less stealthy and more engaged in the fight.

Actual result: Make large ships even more scared than they are now, and force them even further back on the map......:Smile_teethhappy:

Battleships just like to spend 10s every 30s invisible as they reload and after the gun bloom goes, they'll do that either and be spotted more readily, or be further out.

Not a great solution, but handy.

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8 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

AL base conceal 17.82km and the max conceal is 13.4km

Max conceal on Alabama currently is 12.2 surface detection afaik.

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In real world terms this represents a *very* small deviation from the original stealths, see below for RN Example:

pn4b8Ob.jpg

As you can see, the actual differences barely ever exceed for cruisers ~0.25 km, and for BB's seldom much more than 0.5km. This is a nerf that isn't a nerf.

 

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