Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Reymu

CV Rework - first impressions

21 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

757
[NG-NL]
Members
4,975 posts
8,124 battles

My notes are in bullet point, so repeating that here:

·         Skill gap less noticeable. Now instead of mastering RTS and strafe and multi-squad vision, it's matter of mastering the built-in flight controls and timing of attack runs. Feels more realistic.

·         Controls are intuitively easy even for newbies to flight sim like me, but the turnaround for 2nd and consequent attack runs can frustrate newer players—but say keep the large turning circle so CVs cannot become OP.

·         CV is limited to auto-pilot, forcing awareness of surroundings (nice touch is going to minimap allows setting new waypoint even while controlling planes, default key is "m")

. Ramming with carrier is much harder. Altogether, less of a threat to ships that get close.

·         For anti-CV and anti-BB, the TB work best. Both are not maneuverable enough to evade

, but TA will be necessary to catch low- and mid-tier BBs consistently.

·         DB are the squadron for anti-cruiser work. You have to choose the attack angle carefully. Annoyingly, DB still have the same crazy dispersion. Consistent accuracy would be helpful, but how much is a good question. I had little trouble getting at least 1 strike run on grouped Worchesters all using DF in my test Midway.

·         Anti-DD is the fighter’s job. The rockets lack pen power to do more than light damage to a CR and do none to BBs. They can blow off AA, but not economical.

·         CV wants you dead, generally he can, but forced to use specific squad for it

·         Fighter summon is nice touch, but it's very limited in area and only 2 summons per plane type--can see SI being almost mandatory.

·         Reset for the AA focus (bound mine to “g”) would be handy. It doesn't seem to make much difference in DPS.

·         Confirmed: Ryujo is well-suited to CV sniping with the 6TB. Ranger’s 4TB can’t compete. Have yet to attempt w/ Midway and Haku.

·         Balance for the brief immunity (during the ordinance drop animation, the planes are invulnerable) may need revisit. A quick in-and-out here means the CV is guaranteed a quick drop before the others can do anything, esp. since early significant damage to any ship is frustrating for the victim.

·         Reworked CV skills. Uncertain about NDA, if there is any. Want confirm it’s allowed before discussing them.

Altogether, it was pretty fun. Once get the hang of the plane specialties, they are pretty fun. This type of CV is an airborne Gaboon Viper, basically you have to choose targets carefully and on your terms, not to mention proper timing. But once got it, nasty effects. I most enjoyed the rockets for whacking around DDs, but they are definitely a real annoyance to BBs because rockets are good at destroying AA.

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
418
[NATO]
Beta Testers
1,768 posts
5,806 battles
12 minutes ago, Reymu said:

 

Altogether, it was pretty fun. 

The most important part of any player review I have read, in fact I think its the only one that used this description.

Im not a fan of being unable to drive my CV and fly planes at the same time, this makes CV's the only class than cannot maneuver and attack at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,868 posts
4,098 battles
23 minutes ago, Reymu said:

 

Altogether, it was pretty fun. 

THIS IS WHAT MATTERS,THE CV VETERANS CAN CRY ME A RIVER,IF IT'S FUN,THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH.

  • Cool 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,489
[OPGS]
Beta Testers
3,286 posts
5,681 battles

Why on earth would they bother with different size squadrons...make them all the same between nations. Giving Ryujo more torpedo bombers than Ranger is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
367 posts
688 battles
59 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

Im not a fan of being unable to drive my CV and fly planes at the same time, this makes CV's the only class than cannot maneuver and attack at the same time.

It is the only class that can attack anywhere on the MAP from J1. 

59 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

The most important part of any player review I have read, in fact I think its the only one that used this description.

Also.. is it fun for the 9 other non CVs that have to play with you?  The answer there is probably no.  Same as before, playing with or against CVs is trash.  This isn't World of Warplanes, this is WARSHIPS.

Edited by JonnyFreedom
  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1
  • Bad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
232
[SF-3]
Members
1,452 posts
7,944 battles

I mostly played T6 CVs, both Ranger / Ryjuo. It was pretty fun at first, but then it became boring and frustrating. I found the rockets really underwhelming. I had a DD bearing down on my CV, got him down to 950 hp with my other rocket attacks, 1 strike left, hit 4 of 6 rockets for 800 dmg.... I think it initially it will draw a lot of new people in, while at the same time most of the CV vets wont bother, then, after the newness wears off no one will play CV's, they just aren't as interactive as other ship types.

 

On another note, why even have the CV in the game? Why not just have the planes come in from off the map? I don't know, the flying to the target every time was pretty boring.

Edited by Kevs02Accord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
346
[S0L0]
[S0L0]
Alpha Tester
1,395 posts
1,509 battles

 

1 hour ago, Reymu said:

Ramming with carrier is much harder. Altogether, less of a threat to ships that get close.

 

Good write up and pretty much spot on with my opinions......   As for above You can recall your squadron (F key)  and instantly drive your CV just as before...you just cannot fly and drive your CV simultaneously.  However it is nice to be able to jump back in your ship ( recall) and launch another squadron instantly to attack and unexpected threat nearby very quickly.     There's a lot to grow on here and I think this will be much more popular with the player base generally.   Seems to fix a whole lot of the balancing issues created by high level strategic thinking players while still leaving some of those same strategic Meta's as priority options for players.  Just going to be a lot harder to be an overwhelming force on so many areas of the map simultaneously.       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
757
[NG-NL]
Members
4,975 posts
8,124 battles
1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

You can drive the CV if you land your squad. 

Ah, didn't know. But CV's appeal here is fly your guided missiles!

30 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

Why on earth would they bother with different size squadrons...make them all the same between nations. Giving Ryujo more torpedo bombers than Ranger is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I'll need to play both more, but Ryujo outclasses Ranger with the 6TB, plus they're tougher. Found Ranger's plane HP is underwhelming.

 

16 minutes ago, JonnyFreedom said:

It is the only class that can attack anywhere on the MAP from J1. 

Also.. is it fun for the 9 other non CVs that have to play with you?  The answer there is probably no.  Same as before, playing with or against CVs is trash.  This isn't World of Warplanes, this is WARSHIPS.

CV is a warship, and the revamped AA now guarantees even a DD without AA skills will eventually drop your planes since short-range AA is unavoidable. Now how much more effective would it be if we could mount AA range module? Not sure, but probably around 20% more effective AA.

Chief thing is AA is vulnerable as ever to HE spam and now rockets. Even AA builds will eventually fall prey to determined CV.

Thing is the current airborne group needs to be productive--the CV hangar begins reloading when you lose planes. I've found if you suicide the planes too fast, not enough replacements brought up. Ryujo can easily go have just 4TB instead of 6 if you suicide the DB or Fighters and then decide TB next. Replenishment rate seems about 1-2 planes every 20-30 seconds (wasn't paying close attention), so gotta have a productive 2-3 min run or the next squadron may go below full capacity--not any different from BB/CR/DD captains needing to use their respective weapons effectively!

3 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

 

Good write up and pretty much spot on with my opinions......   As for above You can recall your squadron (F key)  and instantly drive your CV just as before...you just cannot fly and drive your CV simultaneously.  However it is nice to be able to jump back in your ship ( recall) and launch another squadron instantly to attack and unexpected threat nearby very quickly.     There's a lot to grow on here and I think this will be much more popular with the player base generally.   Seems to fix a whole lot of the balancing issues created by high level strategic thinking players while still leaving some of those same strategic Meta's as priority options for players.  Just going to be a lot harder to be an overwhelming force on so many areas of the map simultaneously.       

One squadron at a time kinda means there's no "overwhelming force in many map areas" anymore, especially given the flight time. Most of the CV testers I've played with and against opt for staying in the back. So far it's basically make your attack runs count, choose the plane type for the desired target. I had a frustrating time trying to get any TB hits on CRs, bot or human, for example, but hey, that's a welcome change from the alpha strikes! I remember slamming various red ships hard with my Taiho TB after using DB to bait their DC, and can say, it'd feel dirty against weaker targets.

It'll be interesting--if this goes live--to see how viable it is for CVs to push with teammates. With the upcoming CE change, bigger detect range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
387
[POP]
Members
1,229 posts
8,090 battles

Excellent report. 

But what about anti-air on the ships? Does this make AA Cruisers more valuable or less? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
67
[WOLFB]
Beta Testers
711 posts
5,200 battles
45 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

I mostly played T6 CVs, both Ranger / Ryjuo. It was pretty fun at first, but then it became boring and frustrating. I found the rockets really underwhelming. I had a DD bearing down on my CV, got him down to 950 hp with my other rocket attacks, 1 strike left, hit 4 of 6 rockets for 800 dmg.... I think it initially it will draw a lot of new people in, while at the same time most of the CV vets wont bother, then, after the newness wears off no one will play CV's, they just aren't as interactive as other ship types.

 

On another note, why even have the CV in the game? Why not just have the planes come in from off the map? I don't know, the flying to the target every time was pretty boring.

Rockets could use a modest buff damage wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,604
Members
17,854 posts
5,099 battles
1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

Why on earth would they bother with different size squadrons...make them all the same between nations. Giving Ryujo more torpedo bombers than Ranger is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Different size squadrons allow for different "flavours", without affecting the damage per strike.

Besides, anything is acceptable at this point. You're complaining that WalMart is charging too much, when they haven't yet decided to offer it.

This isn't balancing. WG is probably trying to find optimum squadron sizes, and since they have 2 different CVs per tier, giving them different sizes is the easiest way to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
447
[GWG]
[GWG]
Members
1,509 posts
7,398 battles

 

2 hours ago, Reymu said:

 

·         Reworked CV skills. Uncertain about NDA, if there is any. Want confirm it’s allowed before discussing them.

 

No NDA for CV test... per release notes.

 

1314624471_CVNDA.thumb.jpg.faae49d71d7a56cd3a22ec3d7c1a7678.jpg

Edited by OtterWolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
447
[GWG]
[GWG]
Members
1,509 posts
7,398 battles
1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

Why on earth would they bother with different size squadrons...make them all the same between nations. Giving Ryujo more torpedo bombers than Ranger is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Playstyle differences, I guess.. I played Ryujo, mostly, and it seemed to drop a much wider pattern than Ranger.. Very hard to score hits.

I'm ok with the difference in squadron size as long as the damage output is balanced.

Also, Ryujo's torps sure seemed weaker than the max damage listed in stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
757
[NG-NL]
Members
4,975 posts
8,124 battles
52 minutes ago, OgreMkV said:

Excellent report. 

But what about anti-air on the ships? Does this make AA Cruisers more valuable or less? 

BB AA, interestingly, is the most dangerous for short-range, but cruisers seem better at the burst DPS in long- and medium-range. Even with DF active in my test wooster and Buddy, couldn't seem to shoot down planes any faster even with the AA.

Short-range AA alone is umbrella. All the medium and long-range AA, apparently now have field of vision limits.

7 minutes ago, OtterWolf said:

Playstyle differences, I guess.. I played Ryujo, mostly, and it seemed to drop a much wider pattern than Ranger.. Very hard to score hits.

I'm ok with the difference in squadron size as long as the damage output is balanced.

Also, Ryujo's torps sure seemed weaker than the max damage listed in stats.

Ryujo's easy to get torp hits if give the aiming reticle time to narrow first and aiming at BBs/CVs. Can't do anything against a DD or CR that turns.

Flood chance at present is pretty bad. The TDS seems to block any flooding.

23 minutes ago, OtterWolf said:

 

No NDA for CV test... per release notes.

 

1314624471_CVNDA.thumb.jpg.faae49d71d7a56cd3a22ec3d7c1a7678.jpg

Test server's offline atm, I'll see later about adding my thoughts on the new captain skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,489
[OPGS]
Beta Testers
3,286 posts
5,681 battles
2 minutes ago, OtterWolf said:

Playstyle differences, I guess.. I played Ryujo, mostly, and it seemed to drop a much wider pattern than Ranger.. Very hard to score hits.

I'm ok with the difference in squadron size as long as the damage output is balanced.

Also, Ryujo's torps sure seemed weaker than the max damage listed in stats.

LOL I always love when you post because who doesn't love otters and wolves.....I get what you are saying, I didn't play CV's because I am the worlds WORST multitasker.......I don't care how bad you are at CV's I am worse lol. The one thing I didn't understand is that from anecdotal conversations from the people who did play CV's the Japanese CV's were almost always better than their American counterparts. That always bugged me, that if you had a Midway and the other team had the Japanese CV, all things being equal you were at an automatic disadvantage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
832
[SBS]
Members
2,420 posts
2,253 battles
54 minutes ago, Reymu said:

Chief thing is AA is vulnerable as ever to HE spam and now rockets. Even AA builds will eventually fall prey to determined CV.

This is something that I'm not sure is balanced.  With unlimited planes its doesn't seem fair to have limited AA durability.

56 minutes ago, Reymu said:

Thing is the current airborne group needs to be productive--the CV hangar begins reloading when you lose planes. I've found if you suicide the planes too fast, not enough replacements brought up. Ryujo can easily go have just 4TB instead of 6 if you suicide the DB or Fighters and then decide TB next. Replenishment rate seems about 1-2 planes every 20-30 seconds (wasn't paying close attention), so gotta have a productive 2-3 min run or the next squadron may go below full capacity--not any different from BB/CR/DD captains needing to use their respective weapons effectively!

I think this is a little misleading.  You'd have to suicide all three plane squadrons really quickly before you didn't have a full squad ready to go.  I don't know if that's even possible in any normal game play.  I tend to pick my targets with some discretion so I usually have a full squadron of the same type ready by the time I've made all of my attack runs.  As it is now there really isn't any real penalty for losing planes.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,601
[-K-]
[-K-]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,766 posts
6,738 battles
3 hours ago, Reymu said:

 

·   Annoyingly, DB still have the same crazy dispersion.

·   CV wants you dead, generally he can, but forced to use specific squad for it

·  Fighter summon is nice touch, but it's very limited in area and only 2 summons per plane type--can see SI being almost mandatory.

·  Altogether, it was pretty fun. Once get the hang of the plane specialties, they are pretty fun. This type of CV is an airborne Gaboon Viper, basically you have to choose targets carefully and on your terms, not to mention proper timing. But once got it, nasty effects. I most enjoyed the rockets for whacking around DDs, but they are definitely a real annoyance to BBs because rockets are good at destroying AA.

Point by point:

- I found DB accuracy to be too high, actually. If you wait until the last moment when DBs are basically flying right over the ship, it's impossible to miss a BB or a cruiser if you set up your bomb run right.

- Yeah lack of CV protection from snipes is annoying as all hell. The only thing you can do is quickly F the current squadron, raise up a new one, hit the fighter consumable, then land again so you can manually maneuver.

- It's also an interesting mechanic for screwing over DDs, since you can drop the fighter anywhere and it stays there after your strike squadron goes back to carrier. Bit still not nearly as OP and annoying to DD as permaspotting with 5- or 7-fighter squads, of course. Makes sense to spec DDs for AA now!

- Strikes themselves are fun. But flying towards the target is boooooooring. And you cant even completely zone out while doing it, because you need to be boosting the engine in bursts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,601
[-K-]
[-K-]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,766 posts
6,738 battles
2 hours ago, Belthorian said:

Why on earth would they bother with different size squadrons...make them all the same between nations. Giving Ryujo more torpedo bombers than Ranger is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

They're deep water torpedoes, could be fine from balance standpoint. Unless your sentiment is "MURICA"-related :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
757
[NG-NL]
Members
4,975 posts
8,124 battles
6 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

This is something that I'm not sure is balanced.  With unlimited planes its doesn't seem fair to have limited AA durability.

I think this is a little misleading.  You'd have to suicide all three plane squadrons really quickly before you didn't have a full squad ready to go.  I don't know if that's even possible in any normal game play.  I tend to pick my targets with some discretion so I usually have a full squadron of the same type ready by the time I've made all of my attack runs.  As it is now there really isn't any real penalty for losing planes.  

Even with Aux arms mod, yes, AA is quick to go under repeated HE, especially from BB and long-range CR. However, AA builds of varying strengths aren't yet being tested, so that question will have to wait.

Suiciding all three squadrons is impossible, yes. But hitting F key too fast will result in below-max squadrons.

6 hours ago, vak_ said:

Point by point:

- I found DB accuracy to be too high, actually. If you wait until the last moment when DBs are basically flying right over the ship, it's impossible to miss a BB or a cruiser if you set up your bomb run right.

- Yeah lack of CV protection from snipes is annoying as all hell. The only thing you can do is quickly F the current squadron, raise up a new one, hit the fighter consumable, then land again so you can manually maneuver.

- It's also an interesting mechanic for screwing over DDs, since you can drop the fighter anywhere and it stays there after your strike squadron goes back to carrier. Bit still not nearly as OP and annoying to DD as permaspotting with 5- or 7-fighter squads, of course. Makes sense to spec DDs for AA now!

- Strikes themselves are fun. But flying towards the target is boooooooring. And you cant even completely zone out while doing it, because you need to be boosting the engine in bursts. 

- Until about the last second? DDs can probably avoid that easily, but nothing else will. I should try that out.

- I'm interested in whether CV's upgraded hull AA will be sufficiently strong to fight off incoming snipes. If the CVs have to stay together for avoiding this, adds new level of strategy. I rather like that game of who sees and reaches the good targets first.

- Possibly, I can see torp DDs accepting 7.2sec TB rotation in exchange for the short range AA reaching farther, but it takes a while to shoot down anything, which is painful when the red planes are fighters w/ rockets. The only DD that may have trouble is Shimakaze if running her UU since the TB rotation buff in slot 3 helps with the UU's rotation nerf.

- Noticed that too. But if you're hitting + to see minimap closer and locate where to look first for prey, takes your mind off it. The afterburner is a great touch on WG's part, and given the unlimited hangar space, I will respect my CV captains out of the Evasive Maneuvers and possibly the Dogfight Expert skill since, simply, they aren't useful in the reworked CV. But the new skills to boost afterburner, reduce CD, and speed the TB/DB aiming reticle by 25% look necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
757
[NG-NL]
Members
4,975 posts
8,124 battles

I am interested in what WG has in mind for Nobilium, the CV reserved for Sunray into Darkness operation. With this rework, it'll be different, and if bots do not change, it'll be between TB and DB to target Rasputin/Gorgon/Varg and red cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×