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wjp120

Written form info on T8 HMS Vanguard?

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I just saw a Vanguard in a regular random battle for the first time, so I wanted to look up some info on it afterwards. Unfortunately, all I've found is videos, and I just want to skim the info and stats, not listen to someone talk about a bunch of stuff I don't care about while maybe not addressing the points I'm looking for. I just want to see the publicly available stats, consumables, etc., and what type of premium it is.

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So far I don't see anything that indicates how the player I saw obtained it. I don't see it in the premium shop, arsenal, or tech tree. And I haven't seen anything that suggests it's awarded in some way for doing something in-game.

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Just now, Yoshiblue said:

A super tester testing the ship in the wild for data. 

They do that on live servers? That seems.... um.... how do I say something slightly milder than "unethical?" 

 

If it's still being tested, then if it's noticeably better or worse than a typical BB of its tier, then it could ruin a game for the enemies or allies of the tester. And if anyone used signals or one time use camo they paid for in that match, then they might get less use out of them than if that player had had a "ready for prime time" ship.

 

I'm not going to go so far as to call this definitely unethical, but I don't want it to be proven that a gaming publisher of a game I play would do something like that.

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4 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

They do that on live servers? That seems.... um.... how do I say something slightly milder than "unethical?" 

 

If it's still being tested, then if it's noticeably better or worse than a typical BB of its tier, then it could ruin a game for the enemies or allies of the tester. And if anyone used signals or one time use camo they paid for in that match, then they might get less use out of them than if that player had had a "ready for prime time" ship.

 

I'm not going to go so far as to call this definitely unethical, but I don't want it to be proven that a gaming publisher of a game I play would do something like that.

Testing it in the live server is the only way to realistically get an idea for how it's balanced against other ships.  Wargaming used to just do internal testing themselves before releasing ships, and that's how we ended up having OP premiums that have been pulled from sale.

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8 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

They do that on live servers? That seems.... um.... how do I say something slightly milder than "unethical?" 

 

If it's still being tested, then if it's noticeably better or worse than a typical BB of its tier, then it could ruin a game for the enemies or allies of the tester. And if anyone used signals or one time use camo they paid for in that match, then they might get less use out of them than if that player had had a "ready for prime time" ship.

 

I'm not going to go so far as to call this definitely unethical, but I don't want it to be proven that a gaming publisher of a game I play would do something like that.

How do you expect them to test it?  I think you're going a little overboard with your thinking here.

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5 minutes ago, Deno said:

Testing it in the live server is the only way to realistically get an idea for how it's balanced against other ships.  Wargaming used to just do internal testing themselves before releasing ships, and that's how we ended up having OP premiums that have been pulled from sale.

Well, if the testing has business value, then it would be nice if they compensated everyone else in the match with, say, one cheap single use economic camo or one random economic signal, or something. Even if it doesn't impact the match, if the data has value, then it would be nice to do so.

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12 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

They do that on live servers? That seems.... um.... how do I say something slightly milder than "unethical?" 

 

If it's still being tested, then if it's noticeably better or worse than a typical BB of its tier, then it could ruin a game for the enemies or allies of the tester. And if anyone used signals or one time use camo they paid for in that match, then they might get less use out of them than if that player had had a "ready for prime time" ship.

 

I'm not going to go so far as to call this definitely unethical, but I don't want it to be proven that a gaming publisher of a game I play would do something like that.

Live server testing by supertesters is completely normal.  Yes, if it's better or worse than they'd like it might have an impact.  But usually these ships aren't so disgustingly OP or UP that they'll be god like or as bad as an AFK.  And remember that not all super testers are unicums.  Many are completely normal players.  And even when the CCs get it, a weak ship in the hands of a unicums CC can still be very strong, because more often than not, success or lack thereof is dictated more by the captain than the ship.

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5 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

Well, if the testing has business value, then it would be nice if they compensated everyone else in the match with, say, one cheap single use economic camo or one random economic signal, or something. Even if it doesn't impact the match, if the data has value, then it would be nice to do so.

I don't see that happening.  You are seriously the first person I've ever seen on this forum have a single problem with supertest ships on the live server.  

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Just now, Crucis said:

Live server testing by supertesters is completely normal.  Yes, if it's better or worse than they'd like it might have an impact.  But usually these ships aren't so disgustingly OP or UP that they'll be god like or as bad as an AFK.  And remember that not all super testers are unicums.  Many are completely normal players.  And even when the CCs get it, a weak ship in the hands of a unicums CC can still be very strong, because more often than not, success or lack thereof is dictated more by the captain than the ship.

Sure, but I didn't even mention how skilled the player might be. I've been playing online multiplayer games since the mid 90s, I understand that vast skill differences are part of what I signed up for. 

 

What does bother me is that even if the ship isn't noticeably unbalanced mechanically, one way or the other, other players might not even be able to know what it's stats are. The stats linked by EmGee42 above might have been tweaked since they were posted, for all I know. I also can't know for sure what the ship's armor layout and geometry is, for instance. That lack of available information is troubling to me.

 

Sure, maybe I'm reacting this way due to some character flaws of mine, but I'm just trying to be honest about how I feel about this. And I wanted to see what people on the forum have to say about this, so thank you all for that, also.

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5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I don't see that happening.  You are seriously the first person I've ever seen on this forum have a single problem with supertest ships on the live server.  

Well, I suppose there is the upside that I got to see such a ship in the game earlier than some people did. That's neat.

 

I'm emphasizing the negative because the neutral and potentially negative aspects are the reasons I wanted to actually ask about this, but I acknowledge that the overall situation is closer to neutral. My questions are only about particular  aspects of the overall situation, though.

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11 minutes ago, wjp120 said:

Well, I suppose there is the upside that I got to see such a ship in the game earlier than some people did. That's neat.

 

I'm emphasizing the negative because the neutral and potentially negative aspects are the reasons I wanted to actually ask about this, but I acknowledge that the overall situation is closer to neutral. My questions are only about particular  aspects of the overall situation, though.

You're literally the only person that I've ever seen complain about this. Super testers are a valuable part of the player base and spend a lot of uncompensated hours playing these ships and providing feedback to WG before the final stats are published. 

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4 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

You're literally the only person that I've ever seen complain about this. Super testers are a valuable part of the player base and spend a lot of uncompensated hours playing these ships and providing feedback to WG before the final stats are published. 

I don't disagree with the statements you present in this post, (#15 in this thread) but I also think there could be more to it. <shrug>

 If you happen to come to the conclusion that my perspective has little or no value, that is your prerogative. however, you did apparently think it was notable enough to reply to, and not ridiculous enough to ignore, so there's that.

 

The fact of an institution or practice being valuable doesn't mean its current implementation is perfect, has zero problems, or cannot possibly be improved.

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1 hour ago, wjp120 said:

They do that on live servers? That seems.... um.... how do I say something slightly milder than "unethical?" 

 

If it's still being tested, then if it's noticeably better or worse than a typical BB of its tier, then it could ruin a game for the enemies or allies of the tester. And if anyone used signals or one time use camo they paid for in that match, then they might get less use out of them than if that player had had a "ready for prime time" ship.

 

I'm not going to go so far as to call this definitely unethical, but I don't want it to be proven that a gaming publisher of a game I play would do something like that.

the impact of 1 player when theres 24 in a given game is not exactly huge usually. how else do you expect them to gauge if the ship needs adjusted? remember they cant nerf premiums once they go live.

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39 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

the impact of 1 player when theres 24 in a given game is not exactly huge usually. how else do you expect them to gauge if the ship needs adjusted? remember they cant nerf premiums once they go live.

I said that I don't disagree that this practice has value.

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I honestly can't really give you an idea of what the ship will be like, testers are a VERY mixed bag, and it's not skill based.

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1 minute ago, Dr_Venture said:

I honestly can't really give you an idea of what the ship will be like, testers are a VERY mixed bag, and it's not skill based.

/shrug

It makes sense to have testers of various skill levels, play styles, etc.

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Keep in mind the ship is being TESTED!  That doesn't mean it's OP.  It could be UP.  That's the point of the test.  In fact, they try to get it close to the final configuration before dropping into regular randoms.  So these ships are not some God ship that will blow everyone away.  it's just another like-tier ship.  In my 10000 games, I've seen LOTS of these tests.  Never...not once...felt I was outclassed by the new ship.

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1 hour ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Keep in mind the ship is being TESTED!  That doesn't mean it's OP.  It could be UP.  That's the point of the test.  In fact, they try to get it close to the final configuration before dropping into regular randoms.  So these ships are not some God ship that will blow everyone away.  it's just another like-tier ship.  In my 10000 games, I've seen LOTS of these tests.  Never...not once...felt I was outclassed by the new ship.

Upthread, I said:

3 hours ago, wjp120 said:

If it's still being tested, then if it's noticeably better or worse than a typical BB of its tier, then it could ruin a game for the enemies or allies of the tester.

So, I already expressed the opinion that a ship being tested in an UP state could be bad for other players. Also, note that I said "could" not "would." I'm trying to avoid absolutes, since I have no absolute opinion on this.

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As she is, I have little interest in Vanguard outside her historical position as the last battleship of the Royal Navy. She has the same guns found on the Warspite two tier, but only receives a two second reduction in her reload (it even says on the WoWS wiki that her guns were obsolete by the time she was built). If I could make a comparison to Bismarck/Tirpitz (the other tier VIII BBs that use 15" guns): Bis and Tirp have a faster reload (26s vs 28s), their secondaries are top-notch thanks to the penetration bonus and sheer number, and they have the German turtleback armor scheme that makes them proof against citadels at brawling range.

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