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_Caliph_

Adjust The CV Service Cost on TST

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I would very much like to test the changes in carriers but I am not going to farm 5 mil credits for each game to do so. This is a temporary environment and I have better things to do with my time. You have bots filling in matches so what people are playing doesn't matter. I get that you want all of the ships tested but how useful would the results be to begin with? Forcing a CV player to play those ships is not going to return the response that AA is weak if it were and the same with CV being tested by other classes. So we end up with a situation where the CVs are going to be played a handful of times by people which is hardly enough to find hidden bugs or to get a feel as to whether it's a time in class or a class power issue if one does not get the performance they expect.

Edited by _Caliph_
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4 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

I would very much like to test the changes in carriers but I am not going to farm 5 mil credits for each game to do so. This is a temporary environment and I have better things to do with my time. You have bots filling in matches so what people are playing doesn't matter. I get that you want all of the ships tested but how useful would the results be to begin with? Forcing a CV player to play those ships is not going to return the response that AA is weak if it were and the same with CV being tested by other classes. So we end up with a situation where the CVs are going to be played a handful of time by people which is hardly enough to find hidden bugs or to get a feel as to whether it's a time in class or a class power issue if one does not get the performance they expect.

You know you get an absurd amount of credits per game right?

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Just now, XpliCT_ said:

You know you get an absurd amount of credits per game right?

For other classes? Because I tested the CVs and it wasn't there. Forgive my ignorance if it is so but then I really don't understand the need for a managed economy on a TST server to begin with.

Edited by _Caliph_

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They did this on purpose so that it wasn't just everyone playing cv's all the time and so balance can be tested for the aa changes as well. If you read the test notes you would know this

this news post

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15 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

For other classes? Because I tested the CVs and it wasn't there. Forgive my ignorance if it is so but then I really don't understand the need for a managed economy on a TST server to begin with.

You can't just goof. You need 500 base EXP to get that 5m credits.

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Just now, pyantoryng said:

You can't just goof. You need 500 base EXP to get that 5m credits.

Alrighty.

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3 hours ago, Fog_Cruiser_Nurnberg said:

They did this on purpose so that it wasn't just everyone playing cv's all the time and so balance can be tested for the aa changes as well. If you read the test notes you would know this

this news post

I read a lot of things but I guess I missed that. I'm also not under any delusion that a single evaluation is going to be heeded here to begin with. They know what they are going to implement. If they listened to anyone at all this form of CV rework would already be gone because only a handful like it. I do, but it's the truth.

I'm not sure how unbiased i'm going to be evaluating other ships either. I main a CV so while I expect AA to have an effect my level of effect is not going to match what a BB main thinks it should be and the same with CAs.

Ergo, I just feel I should be able to heavily play with CVs to see if I can function sufficiently with practice. Practicing is inefficient when I have to play other types to play one with the CV. 

All good though, as it isn't an insurmountable issue.

Edited by _Caliph_

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I tend to agree with the OP.  The games are almost all bots for the surface ships, and there are no captain skills.  This means we aren't really "testing" AA from surface ships.  Also, with the game being mostly bots it doesn't resemble PvP game play at all.  For those of you that haven't played the tst, the bots don't play anything like they do in co-op, or operations (and nothing like real players).  They bots stay on the side of the map where they spawn, they group together, and will circle in their own end of the map.  Most of the T6 matches end because one team reaches zero point because the bots don't cap. 

There really isn't any meaningful testing happening.  We are just goofing around in the surface ships, and getting a first look at the new CV play.  I'd like to be able to play the CVs and not waste my time in surface ships.  If we were actually testing, with captain skills, and all human players, I'd be fine with playing surface ships too.

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1 hour ago, _Caliph_ said:

I would very much like to test the changes in carriers but I am not going to farm 5 mil credits for each game to do so. This is a temporary environment and I have better things to do with my time. You have bots filling in matches so what people are playing doesn't matter. I get that you want all of the ships tested but how useful would the results be to begin with? Forcing a CV player to play those ships is not going to return the response that AA is weak if it were and the same with CV being tested by other classes. So we end up with a situation where the CVs are going to be played a handful of times by people which is hardly enough to find hidden bugs or to get a feel as to whether it's a time in class or a class power issue if one does not get the performance they expect.

You get an absurd amount of credits per game, in the other classes, that it is easy to make the credits. The biggest reason they did this, is because they NEED TO SEE THE CVS AGAINST OTHER SHIP TYPES! If it was too easy to play carrier in the test, everyone would be wanting to play it, and queue times would be long, and they would not get the data that they need. People are able to earn enough credits in a single battle, to pay for 1 carrier play. So YES, it is doing exactly what they are doing. And from the look of it, a lot of carrier play has been recorded. One also has to remember: this isn't restricted to NA, this is WORLD WIDE TESTING! So a handful of CV Play from 1 player, of say 12 a day, multiplied by 100,000 players (random number chosen) is 1,200,000 CV plays a day. So stop whining, THIS IS A TEST! NOTHING BUT A TEST! A TEST OF THE GAME MECHANICS! THERE IS NO BALANCE!

Edited by Counter_Gambit
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25 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

I tend to agree with the OP.  The games are almost all bots for the surface ships, and there are no captain skills.  This means we aren't really "testing" AA from surface ships.  Also, with the game being mostly bots it doesn't resemble PvP game play at all.  For those of you that haven't played the tst, the bots don't play anything like they do in co-op, or operations (and nothing like real players).  They bots stay on the side of the map where they spawn, they group together, and will circle in their own end of the map.  Most of the T6 matches end because one team reaches zero point because the bots don't cap. 

There really isn't any meaningful testing happening.  We are just goofing around in the surface ships, and getting a first look at the new CV play.  I'd like to be able to play the CVs and not waste my time in surface ships.  If we were actually testing, with captain skills, and all human players, I'd be fine with playing surface ships too.

Yeah, let the ships build for AA, to hinder the carriers, which therefore hinders the test. That's the smartest thing anyone has ever thought of "We need to test this, let's do everything we can to hinder testing this." I already told you: THERE IS NO BALANCE! THIS IS A TEST! And how are there bots? This is all PvP...

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Reading is over powered.

What will be the test rules? Can I play CV only?

No. CV changes are very important to all ships classes, and we need comprehensive feedback on all aspects of the game. So the economy on the test is tuned specifically to make players try both CVs and other ships. To be specific, the post battle service cost of a CV is set to 10 000 000 credits. Each 500 base XP earned in a battle played on any other class will yield you this amount of credits. We know it may be annoying, but we also hope that you understand: without PvP experience against other classes, the test is pointless.

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/carriers_rework_starting_pack/?emst=SvJgb9PSLQ_2230_1294560_1

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You get 5 million for a game any everything but Cvs, they need people to test AA not just CVs and that is how they are doing it.

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Just now, Counter_Gambit said:

Yeah, let the ships build for AA, to hinder the carriers, which therefore hinders the test. That's the smartest thing anyone has ever thought of "We need to test this, let's do everything we can to hinder testing this." I already told you: THERE IS NO BALANCE! THIS IS A TEST! And how are there bots? This is all PvP...

What do you think we are testing?  This is proof of concept testing for the new CVs, that all.  We might as well be playing the ships in which the concept needs to be proven.  When we get to the part where actual testing starts then we need testing on all aspects.  Until then we are only getting a first look at this new game play.

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44 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Reading is over powered.

What will be the test rules? Can I play CV only?

No. CV changes are very important to all ships classes, and we need comprehensive feedback on all aspects of the game. So the economy on the test is tuned specifically to make players try both CVs and other ships. To be specific, the post battle service cost of a CV is set to 10 000 000 credits. Each 500 base XP earned in a battle played on any other class will yield you this amount of credits. We know it may be annoying, but we also hope that you understand: without PvP experience against other classes, the test is pointless.

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/carriers_rework_starting_pack/?emst=SvJgb9PSLQ_2230_1294560_1

I've only played the T6 ships and I don't think it actually works that way.  You have a 5 million service cost for every three CV games.  I think you get 5 million credits for 1000 500 base XP in surface ships (it might be 500 base XP but I don't think so).  I'm not sure I have all that right because I've been jumping in and out of the test server, and haven't really be able to get a real focused gaming session.

Edited by Slimeball91

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43 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

And how are there bots? This is all PvP...

We're service level 1 to start.  It fills in with bots, even in Random.

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54 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

 This is proof of concept testing for the new CVs, that all.  We might as well be playing the ships in which the concept needs to be proven. 

Exactly. As others have said in other threads, this isn't like a mere balancing change, which would really only affect how CVs play, this is going to affect how ALL ships play.

So the concept needs to be proven from all angles, which means playing all the ships. WG does not need players to test proof of concept against bots. They already know that it works with bot targets.

For example, how easy is it to make an attack run on a player that's trying to outhink you? Are the mechanics such that attempting to dodge is worth the effort? How would you test these without testing against humans? How do you guarantee you have humans to test against, when everybody signed up to test CVs?

As you said, you're there to test proof of concept, not practice CV play to get a head start on the rest of the playerbase.

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1 hour ago, Counter_Gambit said:

how are there bots? This is all PvP...

 

28 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

We're service level 1 to start.  It fills in with bots, even in Random.

We are level 15 but they tweaked the MM for the test.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

 

We are level 15 but they tweaked the MM for the test.

Oh.  OK.  I saw the behavior and the text in the MM and assumed SL 1.  Thanks.

Makes sense for a test.

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Just now, Skpstr said:

For example, how easy is it to make an attack run on a player that's trying to outhink you? Are the mechanics such that attempting to dodge is worth the effort? How would you test these without testing against humans? How do you guarantee you have humans to test against, when everybody signed up to test CVs?

 

I had two CV players give up on getting hits on my New Mexico because after sending four squadrons each at me they got two torpedo hits. I didn't get many planes but my torpedo beats were world class.

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36 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I had two CV players give up on getting hits on my New Mexico because after sending four squadrons each at me they got two torpedo hits. I didn't get many planes but my torpedo beats were world class.

And if all people played was CVs, WG wouldn't get that kind of feedback.

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10 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I had two CV players give up on getting hits on my New Mexico because after sending four squadrons each at me they got two torpedo hits. I didn't get many planes but my torpedo beats were world class.

People are figuring out you don't target player controlled surface ships if you can avoid it.  On top of that the games are 80%-90% bots for surface ships.  WG isn't getting any useful data from player controlled surface ships like this.  I'd really like to see this all PvP.

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1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

What do you think we are testing?  This is proof of concept testing for the new CVs, that all.  We might as well be playing the ships in which the concept needs to be proven.  When we get to the part where actual testing starts then we need testing on all aspects.  Until then we are only getting a first look at this new game play.

A proof of concept that affects ALL SHIPS NOT JUST CVS!! As such, they need to know how other ships handle under the new mechanics as well. The reason for no commander skills, is because every cruiser would go AA build, which will skew the results, preventing accurate depiction of the new mechanic, and how unoptimized ships deal with the new threat.

And that last part: where actual testing starts? THIS IS A BETA TEST!!! What part of BETA TEST, is not testing?

And this is NOT A FIRST LOOK! THIS IS TESTING! THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED A BETA TEST!

The fact that the concept of "Beta Test" eludes you, is baffling. War Gaming, this person doesn't understand the purpose of this test, can you remove him, and let me take his spot instead?
 

55 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

 

We are level 15 but they tweaked the MM for the test.

So it does fill in with bots if there aren't enough players?

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Just now, Counter_Gambit said:

A proof of concept that affects ALL SHIPS NOT JUST CVS!! As such, they need to know how other ships handle under the new mechanics as well. The reason for no commander skills, is because every cruiser would go AA build, which will skew the results, preventing accurate depiction of the new mechanic, and how unoptimized ships deal with the new threat.

And that last part: where actual testing starts? THIS IS A BETA TEST!!! What part of BETA TEST, is not testing?

And this is NOT A FIRST LOOK! THIS IS TESTING! THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED A BETA TEST!

The fact that the concept of "Beta Test" eludes you, is baffling. War Gaming, this person doesn't understand the purpose of this test, can you remove him, and let me take his spot instead?
 

So it does fill in with bots if there aren't enough players?

Yes it does which might be a good idea for low population times on the live server.

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And these are cylon bots- they don't get tired, they don't get scared, and they, never, ever, stop coming after you!

its been my experience in several games that the carrier's are among the last ships floating by the end of the match, either by cap, clock or points.

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