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Premium Tier VIII USN CA: Wichita

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There's no recent thread on this upcoming Premium USN CA in this subforum.  Gathered some recent stuff about her.

 

Today, both Flamu and Notser have WiP videos on Wichita.

Flamu thinks she's strong, probably too strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzDcSEZsz2Q

Notser has an early impression WiP video on her also.  He also is liking this CA a lot.  One thing Notser mentioned that Flamu didn't was WG was thinking ahead about Wichita's super concealment in conjunction with Tier VIII Radar.  Their solution according to Notser, was putting Tier VII Radar on Tier VIII Wichita.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eLiq9wBrvc

 

 

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I just watched Flamu's video.  She definitely looks OP.  She needs to lose the SHS, and likely have her reload reduced.  If they don't over-nerf it though, I will be tempted to pick this up even though I don't play t8.  I can say that Belfasts will /definitely/ not be happy to be on the opposite side of Wichita.

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Mejash has a video out on it too.  If it gets no changes, it will be a beast in T8 ranked.

 

 

Edited by crzyhawk

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Can't see the videos at the moment, but I feel Wichita is just a better Balti so far. Much better concealment with the potential to deliver SHS alphas within 9km, superior speed, smaller profile, same armor, a bit weaker AA.

For a class that supposedly was a step between New Orleans and Baltimore, she certainly makes you wonder why the USN even bothered with the Baltimore class. With the way she is represented  ingame maybe the USN should have mass produced Wichitas.

25mm extremities instead of the 27mm and a small Rof nerf may make her a bit more in line in performance with regards to Baltimire.

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On 10/19/2018 at 9:24 PM, warheart1992 said:

Can't see the videos at the moment, but I feel Wichita is just a better Balti so far. Much better concealment with the potential to deliver SHS alphas within 9km, superior speed, smaller profile, same armor, a bit weaker AA.

For a class that supposedly was a step between New Orleans and Baltimore, she certainly makes you wonder why the USN even bothered with the Baltimore class. With the way she is represented  ingame maybe the USN should have mass produced Wichitas.

25mm extremities instead of the 27mm and a small Rof nerf may make her a bit more in line in performance with regards to Baltimire.

Part of the problem is that the Wichita is being given the 335lb super heavy shell which she could not fire, but the Baltimore could.  ROF is way out of line for the USN CAs too.

Edited by crzyhawk

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Based on first hand accounts and navy AARs the ship actually had a rate of fire of seven seconds. 

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29 minutes ago, Lonewolfpj said:

Based on first hand accounts and navy AARs the ship actually had a rate of fire of seven seconds. 

You have a link to those AARs?  The autoloaders on the Des Moines were barely better than that.

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I just have the books and the story’s from the crew reunions. The AAR are at the navy archives. Next time I go I was going to try and print stuff out for WG. 

But what I have found is a we’ll trained crew could usually beat the older auto loader systems. 

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13 hours ago, Lonewolfpj said:

I just have the books and the story’s from the crew reunions. The AAR are at the navy archives. Next time I go I was going to try and print stuff out for WG. 

But what I have found is a we’ll trained crew could usually beat the older auto loader systems. 

I'm simply not going to buy off on crew's stories.  My grandfather was a heavy cruiser gunner (USS Pittsburgh, class of '45), and he'd have been the first to admit that there were a lot of tall tales told.  Without documentation (which I've not even seen claimed in Friedman's book), there is no way I am believing 7 RPM.  You could cueball for 5-6, but 7...that's out of reach I think.

As far as Wichita in game, I finally ran across one in testing while in my Indianapolis.  Wichita scared me like no other cruiser ever has.  Only down one tier, and I was utterly outclassed in every aspect.  It hits both harder and faster.  It's got thicker armor.  It's much stealthier.  It's a smaller target AND has more hit points.  I'd have to severely outplay one in order to survive.  Very few ships put me on the defensive from the beginning like that.  Even the Baltimore feels much less threatening to play against because it doesn't have the stealth advantage.

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Wichita has 5k less health, worse radar and noticeably worse AA. In exchange, she gets 1k better concealment and a smaller profile. DPM and armor on both is exactly the same. She's not overpowered. Her stealth is sick, but if it were not, she'd be just a worse Baltimore in every way.

I think she'll be very strong in the hands of players who enjoy ambush tactics and wrecking other cruisers, but for those who want to play standard USN tactics of sitting behind islands and lobbing shells while remaining unspotted, Baltimore will be better.

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personally, I don't think they intended you to take the Concealment in the Modules....if you take the Rudder Shift there, and the propulsion mod  2 in the

fourth slot, you wind up with a 4.6 second rudder shift, and that makes a Dancer out of it..... and it should accelerate well...that's the way I would set it up, the

concealment winds up at 9.65...plenty good

 

with a base speed of 33.6 a speed flag will take you over 35.3 kts...lots O'  funz.....

 

and the guns are NOT too fast...ur only going to be using the front two a lot of the time, and 10 secs is actually too slow.

and there ya have it...the FIRST  Runner-N-Gunner US Cruiser

 

and with NO  torps, NO  smoke, and NO heal, methinks it will STILL get TOTALLY WASTED by almost anything at tier 9 & 10, where it will be playing mostly....

 

 

Edited by GunBoatz

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58 minutes ago, GunBoatz said:

personally, I don't think they intended you to take the Concealment in the Modules....if you take the Rudder Shift there, and the propulsion mod  2 in the

fourth slot, you wind up with a 4.6 second rudder shift, and that makes a Dancer out of it..... and it should accelerate well...that's the way I would set it up, the

concealment winds up at 9.65...plenty good

 

with a base speed of 33.6 a speed flag will take you over 35.3 kts...lots O'  funz.....

 

and the guns are NOT too fast...ur only going to be using the front two a lot of the time, and 10 secs is actually too slow.

and there ya have it...the FIRST  Runner-N-Gunner US Cruiser

 

and with NO  torps, NO  smoke, and NO heal, methinks it will STILL get TOTALLY WASTED by almost anything at tier 9 & 10, where it will be playing mostly....

 

 

It will be fine in Tier X matches due to one thing:  CONCEALMENT

 

There will be Cruisers in High Tier that will win out against Wichita in a slugging match, much less a High Tier Battleship.  But with concealment better than even Cleveland, you control whether you fight that fight or not.  With speed and American Ninja concealment, the initiative is yours with Wichita.  IIRC, Baltimore goes down to about 9.7km, Wichita is better than Cleveland's 9.1km.  With the expected CE changes, all Cruiser concealment with CE will be worse, but Wichita will still be around Cleveland levels of concealment, which is still amazingly good.

 

US Cruisers do not get the luxury of islands nearby all the time, so concealment is crucial.  Wichita is the stealthiest US Cruiser in this regard past Tier V, stealthier than even Tier VII Atlanta and VIII Cleveland.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I agree except for one thing :  Radar....

 

at 8.7 concealment, it's going to play a lot like a DD....get caught with radar, and  "Adios my Friend"

 

and something else to contemplate.....as soon as you shoot, the concealment goes out the window, so I don't think the concealment is

all that important nowadays...altho nice, I would much rather have it able to dance.....

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By giving Wichita all these out of class, out of nation flavor stats (8.7km stealth, 35kt flag speed) its painting a very disgusting frame that Wichita is a coverup for something else.

From Flamu's vid, the maneuverability, acceleration and heavy DD level of stealth isn't anything I've aeen on any usn Cruiser light or heavy at any tier anywhere. For t8 ranked, the NC will still be the better cruiser with her ~12.3km stealth after the CE nerf. The only thing Wichita brings atm is stealth radar wich may or may not go away. I would rather Wichita have a heal than this ludicrous stealth and SHS.

I hope Wichita doesn't turn into some sort of Alaska replacement or an excuse for it...

Edited by Crokodone

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Hey

Before people start talking about nerf's and such when you have not played the ship yourself; just remember there was a time when Belfast was considered way OP and yet today we find that it's not much different than many of the cruiser we see in battle, everyone knows it can be easily deleted if you know how to counter it.  Even the Kutuzov is very fragile when caught off guard and can be overcome with coordinated effort.  Wichita may be now different once people learn the tricks to deal with it; let's remember too it's a "work in progress" and there probably will be changes for "balancing".  It's about time we get a premium that may earn a gudbote rating versus the usually "Meh" rating.  Unless people want to whine about pay to win again, and again, and again.

 

Pete 

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4 hours ago, GunBoatz said:

I agree except for one thing :  Radar....

 

at 8.7 concealment, it's going to play a lot like a DD....get caught with radar, and  "Adios my Friend"

 

and something else to contemplate.....as soon as you shoot, the concealment goes out the window, so I don't think the concealment is

all that important nowadays...altho nice, I would much rather have it able to dance.....

The concealment is always useful.  If things are looking stupid, you simply hold fire and "Go Dark."  With around 9.1km detection range Post-CE Nerf, that's an immense luxury.  Baltimore is currently 9.7, she'll probably be 10km with the change.  DM, Buffalo even worse.

 

That is how Cleveland and Worcester can get themselves out of trouble.  Simply "Go Dark."  Not even half a minute and you're safe again.  With about 9.1km detection for Wichita, the buffer zone of safety to "Go Dark" is amazing.

 

The greatest form of defense for a Cruiser to not get insta-gibbed by these many powerful Battleships, some of which are very good even at long range, isn't WASD.  It's simply not being seen.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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you cannot "Go Dark"  from radar.....sneaking in to 8.7 with any radar boat around is suicide, therefore the concealment is not that important NOWADAYs.....

 

four months ago yeah....now.....don't think so, so I'd really rather have the rudder.....just a personal choice...this game is full of them....

 

 

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14 hours ago, GunBoatz said:

you cannot "Go Dark"  from radar.....sneaking in to 8.7 with any radar boat around is suicide, therefore the concealment is not that important NOWADAYs.....

 

four months ago yeah....now.....don't think so, so I'd really rather have the rudder.....just a personal choice...this game is full of them....

 

 

You don't know anything about choosing your fights, do you? :Smile_glasses:  Contrary to the DD Mafia, the team's aren't filled with Radar up and down the lists every match.  Some have it, some don't.  You see a Seattle engaging someone and you're trying to attack it with your Wichita.  The smart move is knowing Seattle's radar range and engaging above that so that if contact has to be broken, you easily do so.  Or the dumb move is to sail so deep into Seattle's radar range that it makes disengaging contact difficult.  Which kind of player are you?

 

Then there's all the other engagements where Radar isn't involved by the opponent.  Contrary to the DD Mafia, Radar isn't as widespread as they claim, especially when you consider many of the game's most popular ships aren't even Radar Cruisers.

 

Superior concealment for any Cruiser is a crucial asset.  You control your engagements better the more stealthy your Cruiser is.  Zao, Cleveland for example, part of their success is great concealment (about 9.1-9.5km between the two) and they play very differently.  One is a long range spammer that dips in for 12km torpedo drops, using stealth to control vision against her.  Cleveland dips in / out of fights, getting salvos off as appropriate and moving into positions to use Radar.  For both ships, if things look stupid, you simply hold fire and "Go Dark."  Either way, great concealment is part of that.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Recent changes to the WiP Crusier.

 

Basically she's now a worse version of the Old Tier VIII New Orleans that struggled mightily.

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Nurfed into the ground nothing to see here let's just wait to see how they will Nerf Alaska as well.

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No shocker she got nerfed.  I am shocked the extent she got nerfed.  I don't see a reason to buy the ship now.  I want more surviavability in cruisers.  I don't need more firepower.  They stripped her survivability away with her concealment, because they are too stupid to just remove the damned radar.

Edited by crzyhawk

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These nerfs now make her Tier 7. She can nicely complement the Indy. Honestly, Wichita was the last "Treaty" cruiser and should be Tier 7. Leave her 27mm plate, Mk19 AP ammo, nerfed concealment and plop her into Tier 7. She would make more money for Wargaming as a Tier 7 anyway.

 

Also:  Measure 12 Modified premium camo When (tm)?

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3 hours ago, 31KnotBurke said:

These nerfs now make her Tier 7. She can nicely complement the Indy. Honestly, Wichita was the last "Treaty" cruiser and should be Tier 7. Leave her 27mm plate, Mk19 AP ammo, nerfed concealment and plop her into Tier 7. She would make more money for Wargaming as a Tier 7 anyway.

 

Also:  Measure 12 Modified premium camo When (tm)?

There's way too many US Cruisers in Tier VII right now.

2 Tech Tree ships:  CL Helena and CA NOLA

3 Premiums:  CL Atlanta, CL Boise, CA Indianapolis


There are more US Cruisers in Tier VII than the other crowded ship groups:  RN BBs in Tier VII and US BBs in Tier VIII.

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7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There's way too many US Cruisers in Tier VII right now.

2 Tech Tree ships:  CL Helena and CA NOLA

3 Premiums:  CL Atlanta, CL Boise, CA Indianapolis


There are more US Cruisers in Tier VII than the other crowded ship groups:  RN BBs in Tier VII and US BBs in Tier VIII.

I think she'd be fine if they left her concealment alone and just took the SHS and Radar away.

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Crzyhawk:

I'd be fine with that so long as she gets all tools together: DFAA, hydro, plane all on the same platform. I don't need SHS, I make Indy work fine with Mk19 and US angles. A better Indy with 27mm armor and better concealment is still a buy for me.

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