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Kizarvexis

Dev Blog Hydro and Concealment Expert (BIG CHANGE!)

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Dev blog

 

Update 0.7.10. Duration of the consumable Hydroacoustic Search.

We've standardised not only the acquisition range of the consumable Hydroacoustic Search in Update 0.7.10 but and duration of these consumable.

Reworked parameters will be as follows:

Standard Hydroacoustic Search consumable: at Tier IV to VII, the acquisition range of ships and torpedoes will be 4 km and 3 km respectively; at Tier VIII to IX, it will be 5 and 3.5 km, respectively, and duration time 100 seconds;

Enhanced (i.e German) Hydroacoustic Search consumable: at Tier IV to VII, the acquisition range of ships and torpedoes will be 5.5 km and 3.75 km, respectively, and duration time 110 seconds; at Tier VIII to IX, it will be 6 and 4 km, respectively, and duration time 120 seconds;

Cooldown 180 and 120 seconds for the Hydroacoustic Search I and Hydroacoustic Search II, respectively.


This changes doesn't affect unique Hydroacoustic Search for researchable British destroyers and Cossack. They remain the same with the following parameters:

Action time of the consumable: 180 seconds;
Reload time: 180 seconds (120 for Premium consumable);
Ship acquisition range: 3 km;
Torpedo acquisition range: 3 km.
This changes doesn't affect unique Hydroacoustic Search for destroyer Haida:

Action time of the consumable: 180 seconds;
Reload time: 180 seconds (120 for Premium consumable);
Ship acquisition range: 3,5 km;
Torpedo acquisition range: 2,5 km.
Please pay attention that some ships after this changes will receive improvements to their characteristics, others will get small debuffs. These changes are not based on the performance of some ships compared to others. It is intended only to standardize the value of the consumable.

We will closely monitor the statistics and, if, as a result of this change, the efficiency of any ships are significantly changed, we will take the necessary measures.

We apologize for the lack of this information in the full patchnotes

 

 

 

ST. Concealment Expert.

Now the bonus granted by this skill will be standardised for all classes and equal 10%.

This change will increase the chance for a destroyer to take evasive action if they meet a cruiser at close range.
Make life easier for cruisers by reducing the stealth bonus granted to Battleships.
Will allow for more variation for specialization by making the skill 'Concealment Expert' less dominant.
Also, this change will remove inconsistencies, such as a ship of an enormous size recieving an greater bonus to it's stealth than that of a smaller ship type.

Keep in mind that these changes are now at the testing stage. We will closely monitor the statistics and, if, as a result of this change, the efficiency of any ships are significantly changed, we will take the necessary measures.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/wowsdevblog/posts/

Edited by Kizarvexis
Clarified the Hydro section and bit and bolded the two types
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so RIP my giulio,oct rev and alabama?

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9 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

so RIP my giulio,oct rev and alabama?

Cept it will apply to all ships. So you will be less stealthy, but so will all the other BB and cruisers. 

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 The CE change is a significant nerf to many cruisers who currently rely on concealment to get into good positions in order to be effective supports (DM, Chapaev, radar RN cruisers etc. etc.) and a pretty insignificant nerf to cruisers who excel at fighting at range (Hindy, Henri, Zao to an extent..) which will create disbalance in the power level of those cruisers compared to each other.

Edited by Preteen
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3 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Cept it will apply to all ships. So you will be less stealthy, but so will all the other BB and cruisers. 

Dumping on cruisers is what GC does. I'm sad that the ship is getting a Nerf. This change is 100% needed though. One if the better changes in recent memory.

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Just now, HazardDrake said:

Cept it will apply to all ships. So you will be less stealthy, but so will all the other BB and cruisers. 

Well the difference is, in real distance, most Cruisers will at worst lose ~0.1 to 0.2 km of stealth (the Mino for example, with camo, goes from a min detection of 8.9 km to 9 km) which really doesn't change their quality of life at all, but for say, even the most Stealthy BB in the game, the Monarch, it goes from a 10.9 to 11.5, more than a half km jump. The NC goes from 11.8 to 12.3 (Conq is identical), and the Iowa goes to 12.7 from 12.1.

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6 minutes ago, Preteen said:

 The CE change is a significant nerf to many cruisers who currently rely on concealment to get into good positions in order to be effective supports (DM, Chapaev, radar RN cruisers etc. etc.)

In linear distance, it really isn't, and I say that as a Cruiser main. The DM for examples goes from a min of 10.6 km to, with the change, 10.8. A 0.2 km jump (or 200 meters) is hardly worth raising hay over. It's actually a bigger nerf to *less* stealth Cruisers and BB's, as the linear distance change is greater. So the DM loses 0.2 km of stealth, the Hinde by comparison loses 0.3 km from 12.3 to 12.6. Still not much to cry over but it's a bigger JUMP especially when one considers it already has a larger detection.

A good highlight is the Yamato which goes from 12 km min up to a 12.6, a 0.6 km jump. Which, given it's lower speed and reaction time, represents a FAR greater impact. See a Mino, for example, travels that extra 200 meters (in ingame distance) in about half a second, less if the spotter is travel in the opposite direction (head to head) relative to one another, so its difference to today is beyond the appreciable realm of reaction time. But for say a Yamato, that's potentially several seconds of additional reaction time lost, due to the spotting difference, which is why this is not much of a nerf to CL/CA's but potentially a pain for the less stealthy BB's.

Edited by _RC1138
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8 minutes ago, Preteen said:

 The CE change is a significant nerf to many cruisers who currently rely on concealment to get into good positions in order to be effective supports (DM, Chapaev, radar RN cruisers etc. etc.) and a pretty insignificant nerf to cruisers who excel at fighting at range (Hindy, Henri, Zao to an extent..) which will create disbalance in the power level of those cruisers compared to each other.

A nerf to radar equipped cruisers? YES! Except a change from 12% to 10% isn't really all that big. As @_RC1138 pointed out, at worst it is ~0.1 to 0.2 km difference.

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1 minute ago, Counter_Gambit said:

A nerf to radar equipped cruisers? YES! Except a change from 12% to 10% isn't really all that big. As @_RC1138 pointed out, at worst it is ~0.1 to 0.2 km difference.

Don't forget Worcester and one other that could stealth RADAR got nerf'd as well.

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As one who rarely ever used CE outside of DDs in the first place, I find this change welcome; it lets me gunboat more and ninja less.

Now if only TASM was buffed so that CSM isn't the only real option, that would be perfect.

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1 minute ago, Counter_Gambit said:

A nerf to radar equipped cruisers? YES! Except a change from 12% to 10% isn't really all that big. As @_RC1138 pointed out, at worst it is ~0.1 to 0.2 km difference.

It really isn't a nerf to radar equiped cruisers considering they are typically more on the stealthy side. Since the way CE works is % based, not a distance based, although the *change* is homogeneous, the linear distances are not, so if you start with less range, you lose less, if you start from more, you lose more. The Hinde and HIV lose a great deal more than a Mino or DM.

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Such a shame, they keep dumbing the game down. 

Totally ruined a skill for builds that take rudder shift mod, fire or torp beats. Now the stealth mod is mandatory... They really don't think any of this stuff through.

Edited by MorbidGamer
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5 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

In linear distance, it really isn't, and I say that as a Cruiser main. The DM for examples goes from a min of 10.6 km to, with the change, 10.8. A 0.2 km jump (or 200 meters) is hardly worth raising hay over. It's actually a bigger nerf to *less* stealth Cruisers and BB's, as the linear distance change is greater. So the DM loses 0.2 km of stealth, the Hinde by comparison loses 0.3 km from 12.3 to 12.6. Still not much to cry over but it's a bigger JUMP especially when one considers it already has a larger detection.

 You missed my point completely. 300 meters concealment nerf to a Hindenburg is not as big of a deal as 200 meters concealment nerf to a DM. 200 meters concealment nerf to a DM enlarges the concealment to radar range window by almost 30% on top of shrinking the concealment to gun range window while Hindenburgs key consumables do not suffer in any way.

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Conq loses about 500m, I can absolutely live with that.

I think all my BBs can live with that actually, no bloody murder screaming here. Always thought CE was too much of a "must have".

I might derp once or twice when toeing the line due to silly forgetfulness but then I will learn from the derp.

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1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

Don't forget Worcester and one other that could stealth RADAR got nerf'd as well.

For context, the Worcester will go, under this change, from 9.5 km with a 0.5 km distance between radar range and detect (9 km now) to 9.7 km, with a .7 km range with this change. For a total loss of 0.2 difference in detect range. That's about a half second of travel time.

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Why does WG keep nerfing DDs?  This will be the death of DDs.

:Smile_trollface:

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5 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Don't forget Worcester and one other that could stealth RADAR got nerf'd as well.

Worcester and Seattle I believe.

3 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

It really isn't a nerf to radar equiped cruisers considering they are typically more on the stealthy side. Since the way CE works is % based, not a distance based, although the *change* is homogeneous, the linear distances are not, so if you start with less range, you lose less, if you start from more, you lose more. The Hinde and HIV lose a great deal more than a Mino or DM.

A nerf is still a nerf, no matter how small. Though this is my fault for making it obvious, but there was a bit of sarcasm in my statement, because of how small a nerf it is.

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2 minutes ago, Preteen said:

 You missed my point completely. 300 meters concealment nerf to a Hindenburg is not as big of a deal as 200 meters concealment nerf to a DM. 200 meters concealment nerf to a DM enlarges the concealment to radar range window by almost 30% on top of shrinking the concealment to gun range window while Hindenburgs key consumables do not suffer in any way.

Speaking as someone that plays DM to the exclusion of most other ships, I strongly disagree; 200 meters is about a quarter second of head-to-head travel time in game,  which is already LESS than what either myself or my target can react to, in an already tight detection radius. It won't really effect play. By comparison the Hinde, who is more likely to be broadside to an incoming hidden DD, is far more likely to be lit up at range, and thus remain spotted, than a DM.

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1 minute ago, Patton5150 said:

Why does WG keep nerfing DDs?  This will be the death of DDs.

:Smile_trollface:

OH MY GOSH! I Didn't even consider that angle. I say NO TO THIS CHANGE!:Smile_trollface:

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Excuse my ignorance. perhaps I'm tired and not following properly but are we talking about changes to Hydro or concealment?  I'm not understanding how hydro has an effect on a BB like Conq? 
Lets say a ship has 5.5 km hydro. How does that reduce Conq concealment by 500m?  

 

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Just now, Counter_Gambit said:

Worcester and Seattle I believe.

A nerf is still a nerf, no matter how small. Though this is my fault for making it obvious, but there was a bit of sarcasm in my statement, because of how small a nerf it is.

It's a non-nerf, kinda how a number of 'nerfs' that the DD mafia screams about are barely worth noting, so too is this, I guess cruiser players are just easier going with this stuff, or at least I am. This is a nerf, yes, in the sense that things are 'worse' but way below any appreciable level one can see, especially given how cruisers are played in general. The Hinde and HIV will be the most effected, as they standoff at range and that window, relatively speaking, is greater, but a charging DM or sneaking Mino will barely notice a change.

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1 minute ago, STINKWEED_ said:

Excuse my ignorance. perhaps I'm tired and not following properly but are we talking about changes to Hydro or concealment?  I'm not understanding how hydro has an effect on a BB like Conq? 
Lets say a ship has 5.5 km hydro. How does that reduce Conq concealment by 500m?  

 

It's two separate distinct changes that have nothing to do with  each other. Hyrdro, baring German, premium, and RN DD's are being normalized by tier, and CE, in a totally unrelated change, is being standardized to a -10% concealment across ALL ship types as opposed to the current, -10% for DD's, -12% for Cruisers, -14% for BB's and -16% for CV's.

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11 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

A nerf to radar equipped cruisers? YES! Except a change from 12% to 10% isn't really all that big. As @_RC1138 pointed out, at worst it is ~0.1 to 0.2 km difference.

 

10 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Don't forget Worcester and one other that could stealth RADAR got nerf'd as well.

 

5 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

For context, the Worcester will go, under this change, from 9.5 km with a 0.5 km distance between radar range and detect (9 km now) to 9.7 km, with a .7 km range with this change. For a total loss of 0.2 difference in detect range. That's about a half second of travel time.

 

Just now, _RC1138 said:

It's a non-nerf, kinda how a number of 'nerfs' that the DD mafia screams about are barely worth noting, so too is this, I guess cruiser players are just easier going with this stuff, or at least I am. This is a nerf, yes, in the sense that things are 'worse' but way below any appreciable level one can see, especially given how cruisers are played in general. The Hinde and HIV will be the most effected, as they standoff at range and that window, relatively speaking, is greater, but a charging DM or sneaking Mino will barely notice a change.

Worcester and Seattle had their RADAR ranges nerf's so they could no longer stealth nerf. That is on top of this nerf. Don't get me wrong, I think concealment expert should be the same value for all ship types and this does that. I was just reminding Gambit that two of the worst RADAR offenders, because they could stealth RADAR, also got nerf recently.

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