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Cit_the_bed

Do the 150's have 1/4 pen?

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9 hours ago, Cit_the_bed said:

Not sure if they do?

4 hours ago, 901234 said:

150s on German cruisers [and I think battleships [secondaries]] do have 1/4 pen

- Though shells of similar caliber on ships of different nations do not

You're right about 150s (plus 128s) secondaries tier 7-10 battleships.

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34 minutes ago, Cit_the_bed said:

But what about the 150's on destroyer?

the German DD line does not benefit from 1/4 pen last I checked.

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13 hours ago, Tedster_ said:

the German DD line does not benefit from 1/4 pen last I checked.

no, but it'd be cool if they did :cap_cool:

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On 11/14/2018 at 5:50 PM, Landing_Skipper said:

IFHE is helpful on German DDs with150s. 

Better to use RL instead so that you are a more effective DD-hunter and cap-contester.  The strength of the KM 150mm guns lies in the AP, not the HE, and IFHE offers no benefit against opposing destroyers.

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On 12/17/2018 at 8:19 PM, AnIolairGhorm said:

Better to use RL instead so that you are a more effective DD-hunter and cap-contester.  The strength of the KM 150mm guns lies in the AP, not the HE, and IFHE offers no benefit against opposing destroyers.

I concur with this for the 128s as well as the 150s.   German AP is nasty across the board and getting in the habit of switching to AP as soon as anything shows its side greatly increases your ability to hurt and many times wreck whatever you encounter.   German DDs are for the most part out spotted by everything (with the rare exception) at their respective tiers.   Having RL in place means you can shift your guns to the bearing or turn away and avoid the engagement.  This, IMO, is far more valuable in a German DD over IFHE is it helps keep you in the game longer in addition to providing info to you and the team.

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Maybe for other KM DDs.  But for the Z-23, IFHE is generally better than RL.

It's never going to be a real good DD hunter - the detection is too big. So RL isn't anywhere near as useful there.  You have hydro as a cap contester, and RL really isn't that useful in that situation. RL works much better for predictive torps for big stuff, and ambush hunting of DDs.  The Z-23 does just fine hunting bigger ships with its torps as-is, and, like I said, it's not really a DD-hunter.

But 150mm HE pens only 24mm. With IFHE, it pens 32mm.  That's a HUGE deal. The different is that it almost doubles your DPM, in practice, and there are many places/situations that AP simply isn't usable on CAs and BBs.

Z-23s with IFHE will just melt many opponents, in the same way that CLs with IFHE do.  While the Z-23 doesn't have the DPM/ROF that something like a Cleveland has, it can still pump out a vast amount of damage in a very short time, then move on, wait for the target to DC, then pump out more.

 

The problem with the 150mm AP is that it's mostly ineffective against targets outside 7km or so. Even on broadside CAs and BBs, there's a large number of shatters and bounces when you shoot AP at distance.  HE actually does far more reliable damage out at that range, and IFHE easily doubles that damage. Virtually no overpens, no bounces, very few shatters, and consistent pens, with IFHE.

 

 

 

 

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On 12/27/2018 at 8:54 AM, LAnybody said:

Maybe for other KM DDs.  But for the Z-23, IFHE is generally better than RL.

It's never going to be a real good DD hunter - the detection is too big. So RL isn't anywhere near as useful there.  You have hydro as a cap contester, and RL really isn't that useful in that situation. RL works much better for predictive torps for big stuff, and ambush hunting of DDs.  The Z-23 does just fine hunting bigger ships with its torps as-is, and, like I said, it's not really a DD-hunter.

But 150mm HE pens only 24mm. With IFHE, it pens 32mm.  That's a HUGE deal. The different is that it almost doubles your DPM, in practice, and there are many places/situations that AP simply isn't usable on CAs and BBs.

Z-23s with IFHE will just melt many opponents, in the same way that CLs with IFHE do.  While the Z-23 doesn't have the DPM/ROF that something like a Cleveland has, it can still pump out a vast amount of damage in a very short time, then move on, wait for the target to DC, then pump out more.

 

The problem with the 150mm AP is that it's mostly ineffective against targets outside 7km or so. Even on broadside CAs and BBs, there's a large number of shatters and bounces when you shoot AP at distance.  HE actually does far more reliable damage out at that range, and IFHE easily doubles that damage. Virtually no overpens, no bounces, very few shatters, and consistent pens, with IFHE.

 

 

 

 

While I agree the Z-23 isn't really about gunboating against other destroyers, she is still a destroyer first a foremost, and that means maximizing tracking/spotting opponents and area-control.  For this reason, RL is by far and away much more useful for team play than IFHE.  IFHE directly benefits only the destroyer.  Moreover, if a team depends on a non-gunboat destroyer with a unique gun caliber (150mm) to be able to pen greater than 24mm of armor, something has gone horribly wrong.

EDIT:  I should add that you could have a build with both RL and IFHE (PT, PM, LS, SI or SE, CE, RL, IFHE).  However, I feel taking IFHE here is still too expensive for the primary purpose and function of this destroyer.  It means giving up a level-three skill and a level-two skill (or two level-two skills) that would make the destroyer more versatile to her teams.

Edited by AnIolairGhorm
Added comment on a combined build with RL and IFHE

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