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RivertheRoyal

Secondary battleships and why you want one.

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You want one because they're the most fun you can have with your pants on. 

Because, when you get into the right match, you become a wreaking ball of sheer destruction. 

Sorta like this. 

XFG07rD.jpg   

Spoiler

2Uzr6tV.jpgykUcrWD.jpgxSHdFRu.jpg

 

Trust me, everyone should have a secondary built battleship in their port. Particular favourites of mine are Genisenau, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Gascogne, Alsace, Republic, and finally, Massachusetts. They're all great for blowing off steam and just having fun with the game. 

Oh! And add IFHE to Alsace and Massachusetts. Trust me, you're going to want to. They go from fun secondary battleships to monsters. 

I hope this little bit of advice or banter excuses the humble-brag of the screenshots. (I just couldn't not share them, I'm afraid.)    

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I personally think every Battleship should have fearsome secondaries. Of course they all shouldn't have the range like the Germans or the Mass have. But they should at least have the reload. For instance the Roma has a lot of secondary guns, sadly they are short range and slow firing. Because nothing is as epic in WoWs as seeing the secondaries go off, looks like ye ol' ships of sail engaging in broadside duels. 

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Nicely done.

Secondary ships/builds are indeed fun.

I know a long time ago, right after IFHE came out, I threw it on the Bismarck (iirc - though it may have been a different ship, it's been a long time) for grins and giggles (also some experimenting). It did work, at least back then against Cruisers as it would just melt their armor, well more so than normal. lol

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Higher tiers get all the hype...

First time I took a secondary build South Carolina into a fight I had over a hundred secondary hits.

New Mexico can work, as can Warspite; but my favorite secondary build at T6 is Normandie.

Ever since I got it, Normandie has never been anything but a secondary build

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Schar...nuff said.  Monster with secondary build.  No DD nor Cruiser should live in that hail of stuff....if ya do it right. 

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Massachusetts is the secondary ship I've wanted for as long as I've played game 

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4 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Massachusetts is the secondary ship I've wanted for as long as I've played game 

Exactly.

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16 hours ago, RedSeaBear said:

I personally think every Battleship should have fearsome secondaries. Of course they all shouldn't have the range like the Germans or the Mass have. But they should at least have the reload. For instance the Roma has a lot of secondary guns, sadly they are short range and slow firing. Because nothing is as epic in WoWs as seeing the secondaries go off, looks like ye ol' ships of sail engaging in broadside duels. 

Yeah, I love watching two secondary BBs go at it. 

But another good reason is that when BBs have good secondaries their drivers struggle to push up and use them. And that is a good thing for the game. 

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My Montana is configured for her secondaries, as many a DD captain has found out, plus a whole bunch of cruiser and BB captains as well. Not quite like the Massachussetts, but almost...

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The problem is, even in the game you show as “exemplary,” only 23k damage was done by secondaries. Fun? Yes. Effective? No. Even if we count all the fires, only 1/4 of your total damage was from secondaries. How many captain points did you spend on a secondary build that could have been used for things like Adrenaline Rush, Fire Prevention, or Basics of Survivability?

Again, it can definitely be fun, but secondary builds are simply not competitive.

Edited by n00bot
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More than one pathetic DD troll has discovered the hard way that I run a high-point Jon Doe and Vigilance/secondary build on my NorCal, with the targeting module equipped.

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Thats why id love secondaries buffed across the board.  Secondaries worth a crap would definitely help break up the static campy bb syndrome, giving them a decent weapon to offset the slow rof of the mb.  Atm, most secondaries are little more then noise makers...

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49 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

My Montana is configured for her secondaries, as many a DD captain has found out, plus a whole bunch of cruiser and BB captains as well. Not quite like the Massachussetts, but almost...

Please. Even with full secondary spec, it reaches out to what, about 9.7km? And only 5 turrets per side, it's not exactly fearsome. I did the secondary range on MO for a while before swapping for AA range cause US BB secondaries, except on Massachusetts, aren't that effective.

That said, I do have MS and secondary range module on my GK. Some battles that has been as much as 20% of my total damage, and pretty handy if a red appears opposite my MB direction.

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13 minutes ago, n00bot said:

The problem is, even in the game you show as “exemplary,” only 23k damage was done by secondaries. Fun? Yes. Effective? No. Even if we count all the fires, only 1/4 of your total damage was from secondaries. How many captain points did you spend on a secondary build that could have been used for things like Adrenaline Rush, Fire Prevention, or Basics of Survivability?

Again, it can definitely be fun, but secondary builds are simply not competitive.

Honestly, the effectiveness of secondaries is not at face value.  Its the 23k dmg done in addition to the other 170k, that otherwise wouldnt have been done.  Its the comfort and confidence it instills in the BB capt, that is now in the mix, deterring and scaring DDs n CAs, vs the BB camping in the back in fear of Torp runs and long, slow mobility and reload times.  Its the extra CA or DD sunk or on the defense...

Yeah, secondary builds are very effective.  Sure, they take a little more planning then pacing the red line, but they are very effective...

And btw, 23k from USN secondaries?  Thats a far cry from the usual 1500 or less I see when I do a secondary run.  Id love a solid secondary buff across the board, for all nations.  German national flavor be damned.

Edited by KnightFandragon
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1 hour ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

My Montana is configured for her secondaries, as many a DD captain has found out, plus a whole bunch of cruiser and BB captains as well. Not quite like the Massachussetts, but almost...

makes sense..Montanas 5/54 should not be an improvement on the Mass 5/38

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12 minutes ago, n00bot said:

The problem is, even in the game you show as “exemplary,” only 23k damage was done by secondaries. Fun? Yes. Effective? No. Even if we count all the fires, only 1/4 of your total damage was from secondaries. How many captain points did you spend on a secondary build that could have been used for things like Adrenaline Rush, Fire Prevention, or Basics of Survivability?

Again, it can definitely be fun, but secondary builds are simply not competitive.

 

See, there are two things you're missing. 

Firstly, my Massachusetts captain is only at 16 points right now. My build has Manuel secondaries, and Advanced Firing Training. On most other secondary builds, this would be adequate. With Massachusetts though, her secondaries don't reach their full potential unless you slap on IFHE as well. So, my secondary battery shells end up shattering on most the battleships in that matchup, and some of the cruisers as well. I did very, very little raw damage to them with secondaries. 

Where then, did that 23k of secondary damage come from? 
Why, from the DDs and cruisers without the hull armour to shatter the secondary shells. 23k doesn't sound that great if you're just thinking of it as coming from battleships. When it's coming from things that can't heal that damage back, well, that number becomes somewhat more significant. 

The fires also wouldn't have happened without those secondaries having been built into. Oh sure, I would have gotten 3~5 of them, but 10? 

 

Then, secondly, you're missing the panic factor secondaries bring to the table. People tend to not keep their cool with ten 127mm shells raining down on their decks every 4 seconds. DDs and cruisers in particular tend to want to get out of secondary range as quickly as possible, and I've found it extremely valuable for adding to an enemy team's disarray. 

 

And as for it being competitive, well, I settled on playing Massachusetts for the T8 portion of this ranked season after fooling around with some other ships. At the time I had a 19 point captain in her, with the full works. AFT, MS, IFHE, etc. 

Mind you, I started at the lowest rank since I hadn't participated in the season before. I played a single game in my Atago. I played a single game in my Roma, and another in my Harekaze. 
I played seven games in the Massachusetts. I would have played more, but I reached rank 15 and the tier ten portion after those seven games. I'll let you figure out what I think about your comment of a secondary built battleship not being competitive. 

 

XiKZL56.png       

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I dunno, good secondary brawls tend to make my pants disappear so I can't agree with the first statement

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53 minutes ago, Reymu said:

Please. Even with full secondary spec, it reaches out to what, about 9.7km? And only 5 turrets per side, it's not exactly fearsome. I did the secondary range on MO for a while before swapping for AA range cause US BB secondaries, except on Massachusetts, aren't that effective.

That's because WG had nerfed the ROF and range on secondary guns for North Carolina upwards. If they had used the historical data for the duel of Washington Vs Kirishima in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, a CA/DD would die within 12km from the secondaries alone.

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1 hour ago, n00bot said:

The problem is, even in the game you show as “exemplary,” only 23k damage was done by secondaries. Fun? Yes. Effective? No. Even if we count all the fires, only 1/4 of your total damage was from secondaries. How many captain points did you spend on a secondary build that could have been used for things like Adrenaline Rush, Fire Prevention, or Basics of Survivability?

Again, it can definitely be fun, but secondary builds are simply not competitive.

Maybe. Maybe not. 23k of a kurfurst is meh, but 23k of lolibote is a whole lolibote. 

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4 hours ago, RivertheRoyal said:

You want one because they're the most fun you can have with your pants on. 

Because, when you get into the right match, you become a wreaking ball of sheer destruction. 

Sorta like this. 

XFG07rD.jpg   

  Reveal hidden contents

2Uzr6tV.jpgykUcrWD.jpgxSHdFRu.jpg

 

Trust me, everyone should have a secondary built battleship in their port. Particular favourites of mine are Genisenau, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Gascogne, Alsace, Republic, and finally, Massachusetts. They're all great for blowing off steam and just having fun with the game. 

Oh! And add IFHE to Alsace and Massachusetts. Trust me, you're going to want to. They go from fun secondary battleships to monsters. 

I hope this little bit of advice or banter excuses the humble-brag of the screenshots. (I just couldn't not share them, I'm afraid.)    

That's interesting, considering WG has IFHE crossed out in the captain skills screen.

Edited by Seaneroo

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1 hour ago, Xanshin said:

Maybe. Maybe not. 23k of a kurfurst is meh, but 23k of lolibote is a whole lolibote. 

It's also good to note that secondary damage tends to be concentrated in a fairly short amount of time.
23k off a Kurfurst over say, two or three minutes is a pretty huge increase of damage.  Angled BBs dueling each other might only be hitting for 6k every 30 seconds after all.
Not to mention the fire damage.  He had another 34k of that, and exactly 0 HE shells fired from his main battery.

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Mostly I just go for increased range on secondarys for the ancillary buffs to AA as well.  It’s just efficient.

After that, it’s secondary survivability in first mod slot.  Still have a tendency to get hosed off by HE rain.

Only thing I go full secondary on is Bismark due to last year’s halloween skin, Varg.  Now that’s gotta be a scary sight.  Never seen it from the receiving end though :(.

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6 hours ago, Bill_Halsey said:

That's because WG had nerfed the ROF and range on secondary guns for North Carolina upwards. If they had used the historical data for the duel of Washington Vs Kirishima in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, a CA/DD would die within 12km from the secondaries alone.

That would be glorious.

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