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ECA

MY OPINION 2..

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I keep seeing a REVERSE of how battle is..

Let me ask if this is wrong...

LETS SAY... 1-2 BB and 1-3 DD and 1-2 Cruisers..

Let the sit near each other, and wonder to a position AND do their thing...

Why let 1/2 your team dies because you want to die early.

ALl the ships have good Site on range and whats ahead, but the BB gets a head up and tells the other ships WHATS happening..

The crusoiers can group up and split if needed, but the DD can ruch and spread torps...HIDe in the islands and trap...

THE BB is a target after it see's everything elve but the other ships TEND to be almost invisable until they FIRE GUNS...or smoke up..

Easier to launch torps IF NOT A TARGET at the time...you can HIT, not always sink the larger targets..and if the DD are seen forst, you have allot of ships to protect WARN you of whats coming...

WHY let the Dd wonder around and DIE, when you can use them later....

 

Part of the problem tends to be the BB dont tell us whats going on or where they are going...CANT protect if they SIT, and wait....we need them CLOSER..  THE"Y "ARE OUR SUPPORT..

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Sorry OP, I just don't understand.

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I'm thinking that English isn't the OP's primary language.  

 

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When you expect the DD to be scout THAT IS NOT their job..

The BB and DD can Both see the Enemy Bb at the same time..

YOUR BB can fire at the enemy Long before a DD even wants to..  After spotting, and While the DD is around its Own BB...its a defender.  Watching for the Other DD from the enemy.  He can also...After thinning the enemy abit, Scout...  It is better when the BB can overlook/support the DD at the beginning, rather then have him TRY to be a scout.

Being a scout means something stupid happens.  as soon as 1 enemy see's you...ALL the enemy can SEE YOU..  This is not detection, except the first DD spotted him.  And its NOT a shadow displayed on the map...its VISUAL ID AND SPOTTING to every ship...What is the enemy BB going to do, after the enemy DD is spotted....FIRE..Shoot the mouse, shoot it...

In the rules its Supposed to be an indication that something is there...NOT a full visual..  Until the Enemy is in DETECTION RANGE..  but its not working that way.

I believe the team should work together...the BB should tell people WHERE they are going...Other wise you end up ALL the BB...over there... and ALL the rest Someplace else..and its fricking stupid to battle that way..  Iv been in a DD and rounded a corner and FOUND the WHOLE enemy team...I spotted 6 and DIED.  And all my BB were at the other end of the map...4 BB in 1 cap...LOVE IT..

There needs to be Abit of communication in the game.  But everyone is silent.  I ask where they are going and its either SHUT UP..WATCH THE MAP, or nothing.  Yes I can just SIT and watch the BB go that way, and the rest the other...and we loose every battle..  As 1 spotter, spotted the Cruisers and DD, and the WHOLE enemy BB fired at us, along with Avoiding 2-3-4 enemy dd...try it,,, it isnt easy.

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Might I ask why you are bothering to make two different, almost identical threads and post the same thing in both?

Also...

36 minutes ago, ECA said:

In the rules its Supposed to be an indication that something is there...NOT a full visual..  Until the Enemy is in DETECTION RANGE..  but its not working that way.

I have no idea what "rules" you are talking about. If there is something in your detection radius with clear line of sight to you (and long enough view range), you are spotted. There is only "spotted" and "hidden," there is no such thing as a partial visual.

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2 minutes ago, Baskerville77 said:

Might I ask why you are bothering to make two different, almost identical threads and post the same thing in both?

Also...

I have no idea what "rules" you are talking about. If there is something in your detection radius with clear line of sight to you (and long enough view range), you are spotted. There is only "spotted" and "hidden," there is no such thing as a partial visual.

WOW, you dont read the wiki...Thats like owning a ship and not knowing where the start button ISNT..

Lets see...According to wiki...they have Long View range, but cant see you, until they hit your detection range..  WHICH ISNT what is happening..

And there is nothing in the wiki about being spotted, and you have been detected by every enemy ship..even at 14k..  Even on the other side of islands mountains, hills, gaps, Gullies...YOU ARE VISIBLE on map and if they look at you..

Iv used my Sims, in the gap...and spot Every enemy ship 14k away, THRU THE ISLAND..  which is also stupid.  radar dont do that, sonar dont do that, and VIEW and LOS dont do that..  I have a Psychic on my ship Putting DOTS on a map of the area..and I can see every one of them..

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12 minutes ago, ECA said:

WOW, you dont read the wiki...Thats like owning a ship and not knowing where the start button ISNT..

Lets see...According to wiki...they have Long View range, but cant see you, until they hit your detection range..  WHICH ISNT what is happening..

And there is nothing in the wiki about being spotted, and you have been detected by every enemy ship..even at 14k..  Even on the other side of islands mountains, hills, gaps, Gullies...YOU ARE VISIBLE on map and if they look at you..

Iv used my Sims, in the gap...and spot Every enemy ship 14k away, THRU THE ISLAND..  which is also stupid.  radar dont do that, sonar dont do that, and VIEW and LOS dont do that..  I have a Psychic on my ship Putting DOTS on a map of the area..and I can see every one of them..

Please tone down the hostility. Insulting people who ask for clarification on your question is a good way to ensure that nobody will want to help you in the future.

And you seem to have drastically misunderstood view range and spotting. If a ship is spotted, but not in your view range, it still shows up on your mini-map as a colored outline, but it is not rendered on your screen. That even applies to allied ships. That seems to be the visual indicator you are taking about. It's most noticeable in DDs, who tend to have shorter view ranges, while BBs can see pretty much across the map.

However, this pretty much doesn't matter. There is no ship in the game that has a longer fire range than view range under normal circumstances. The only time that would happen is in a cyclone, when viewing range is dropped to 8KM across the board. As such, ships cannot be spotted outside 8KM (excluding radar) but if a friendly spots a ship and it is more than 8KM from you, it only shows up on the mini-map as that colored outline I mentioned, but not visually for you to shoot.

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37 minutes ago, Baskerville77 said:

Please tone down the hostility. Insulting people who ask for clarification on your question is a good way to ensure that nobody will want to help you in the future.

And you seem to have drastically misunderstood view range and spotting. If a ship is spotted, but not in your view range, it still shows up on your mini-map as a colored outline, but it is not rendered on your screen. That even applies to allied ships. That seems to be the visual indicator you are taking about. It's most noticeable in DDs, who tend to have shorter view ranges, while BBs can see pretty much across the map.

However, this pretty much doesn't matter. There is no ship in the game that has a longer fire range than view range under normal circumstances. The only time that would happen is in a cyclone, when viewing range is dropped to 8KM across the board. As such, ships cannot be spotted outside 8KM (excluding radar) but if a friendly spots a ship and it is more than 8KM from you, it only shows up on the mini-map as that colored outline I mentioned, but not visually for you to shoot.

Umm, have you used a DD lately??  as the ones Im using seem to have 8-14k view range..  I would hope abit shorter then my BB team.

There are 3 points..

View range

Detection

Visual.  the first 2, lead to a Visual..  And as soon as Any ship spots a dd, the DD is visible..  including to All the enemy..even outside of detection area.  he dont need to fire(which would lite him up All over the map..)

I understand the outline thing, but its not that way..I wish it was..I would not be here.

And in real life, radar Sucks in storms..its doing it job to well, it picks up Curtains of rain which blocks most signals..

And as mentioned, my Sims is great for going down the gaps..1/2 thru I spot everyone that WOULD be in view range and more.  Which is stupid.  Seeing thru the islands upto 14k..

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11 minutes ago, ECA said:

Umm, have you used a DD lately??  as the ones Im using seem to have 8-14k view range..  I would hope abit shorter then my BB team.

That is literally what I said. I said DDs have shorter view ranges than BBs. As I said, tone down the meaningless hostility.

 

14 minutes ago, ECA said:

There are 3 points..

View range

Detection

Visual.  the first 2, lead to a Visual..  And as soon as Any ship spots a dd, the DD is visible..  including to All the enemy..even outside of detection area.  he dont need to fire(which would lite him up All over the map..)

This is indeed the way it works. If one thing spots you, your position is communicated to the whole team. If it weren't, this game would be much less fun, as battleships and most criusers would be utterly helpless against a DD that maintains its distance.

 

22 minutes ago, ECA said:

I understand the outline thing, but its not that way..I wish it was..I would not be here.

That is the way it works. If you think it works a different way, please explain how you think it works and provide evidence.

24 minutes ago, ECA said:

And in real life, radar Sucks in storms..its doing it job to well, it picks up Curtains of rain which blocks most signals..

Yes, and in real life, battles took multiple hours, sometimes days to play out, ships were more visible from planes instead of less, and most ships didn't reload torpedoes, among another hundred ways this game isn't accurate to real life. This is an arcade game, not a simulation. If radar gets changed, it will be because of how it works in game, not real life.

40 minutes ago, ECA said:

And as mentioned, my Sims is great for going down the gaps..1/2 thru I spot everyone that WOULD be in view range and more.  Which is stupid.  Seeing thru the islands upto 14k..

You are not spotting things 14KM away through islands in your Sims. The Sims has no aircraft, no radar and no hydro. It cannot spot things through islands by itself more than 2KM away, so something else is spotting the ship for you. That's how it works.

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Iv said what Iv seen...

For some reason taking a still frame of the game has changed in win10...they come out Black..  Other wise I would show you.

Since this is a Arcade then Cut the radio ranges...


And consider 1 thing.  If you want to play with radar, then play with the rest.  Make this UNREAL.  Make it stupid..as it already it..

 

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6 hours ago, ECA said:

Iv said what Iv seen...

For some reason taking a still frame of the game has changed in win10...they come out Black..  Other wise I would show you.

Since this is a Arcade then Cut the radio ranges...


And consider 1 thing.  If you want to play with radar, then play with the rest.  Make this UNREAL.  Make it stupid..as it already it..

 

Other than the screen shot thing, I have no clue what you are saying. What are "radio ranges" in this context and why would cutting them have anything to do with the arcade aspect of the game?

And no matter how much I consider your last paragraph, I cannot make heads or tails of it.

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3 hours ago, Baskerville77 said:

Other than the screen shot thing, I have no clue what you are saying. What are "radio ranges" in this context and why would cutting them have anything to do with the arcade aspect of the game?

And no matter how much I consider your last paragraph, I cannot make heads or tails of it.

you are willing to let them use radar in every event...From storms to Seeing thru islands..

And didnt you mention something about a DD spotting the enemy and using the radio to tell his WHOLE team about the target??

What do you think they used??  There is 2 other thing but that would require being ALLOT closer, using the flag or Light flashing system..

In this pic, the ships Should be outlined..

They are in his out of range, view area...NOT in detection range, and should not be Fully visible..

WOWS 6.png

WOWS 7.png

WOWS 4.png

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4 hours ago, ECA said:

you are willing to let them use radar in every event...From storms to Seeing thru islands..

Radar going through islands is a controversial topic, but it's irrelevant to this topic. Your Sims does not have radar, so it is not spotting anything through an island more than 2KM away. Someone else is spotting it for you as I said earlier. 

4 hours ago, ECA said:

And didnt you mention something about a DD spotting the enemy and using the radio to tell his WHOLE team about the target??

What do you think they used??  There is 2 other thing but that would require being ALLOT closer, using the flag or Light flashing system..

I never mentioned radio. And stop trying to use real life to justify major changes to the game. A more realistic game would be much different and probably less fun as a multiplayer game.

4 hours ago, ECA said:

In this pic, the ships Should be outlined..

They are in his out of range, view area...NOT in detection range, and should not be Fully visible..

WOWS 6.png

Okay, in picture one, it becomes very apparent you are confused about what view range is. Just because he isn't looking at a target, they are not out of view range. View range does not care about what way you are looking, just the distance between ships. All those ships you circled are in his view range, so are solid icons on the map and will show up if he looks at them.

 

4 hours ago, ECA said:

WOWS 7.png

Same with the solid icons in this picture. The white outlines are the last know positions of hidden ships. Ships spotted but out of view range are colored outlines.

And the third picture is the same as the first. They are in his view range, and it doesn't matter if he is looking at them.

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By reading your comments in this forum and looking at your profile ECA I see that you have no idea what you're talking about, don't know how to use English, and are a noob who just buys prem ships before he knows how to play well. Comment on the forum when you have experience.

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3 hours ago, Iron_Salvo921 said:

By reading your comments in this forum and looking at your profile ECA I see that you have no idea what you're talking about, don't know how to use English, and are a noob who just buys prem ships before he knows how to play well. Comment on the forum when you have experience.

lETS SEE...go read my prfile then add...

Old time programmer from the 1980's..Iv used more computers then you have had dreams...Iv bought more computers then you have...I was a teen when Pong came out as a console..

YES, my finger have problems spelling and so forth, but esp keeping up with what I wish to express.

AS WELL, as Iv only 1 Prem ship..did you know HOW to get that ship??..go find out.

Also Iv played more games then you will ever.  from over 200 for my C64, to Hunt the Wumpus on a teletype..  And a 360/30 Mainframe.

Iv probably built more computers then you have ever seen..  I was around when MOSt of this was New to the consumer.  And if you really want to insult someone, start with looking in the mirror..

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I ran to position to show THAT I CAN see thru the island, and they are All visible..

20181007204927_1.jpg

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I am not confused over Spotting...its not View range...there are 2 things required to have a Full visual...

They are in View range AND they are in the enemies detection range.  Other wise They are OUTLINED...

When you see the Full color, its in Visual.  It should not be.  its not following the games Own rules.

If your team mate see's me, AND im not in detection range, you only should get a Dotted outline on the map...THEY should NOT get my picture plastered in their faces, saying LOOK LOOK..its a DD..

Last picture, I should NOT be able to see any except that enemy in front of me...  NONE of my team has sight yet.  maybe 1-2 on the west side, but the East side should not be seen..

And since the maps are not labeled 2, 3,4  for an indication of the Square size(very strange as you would think the navy would make it easy and a fixed map size..or at least Note it on the corner..

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Far east side...you can see how it should be, My team mate is close enough to spot, butt out of my range and detection so they are Outline...but directly south??  should not be Full Visible, even if my team spotted them, at most they should be Outline.

 

Im trying to help both sides..as well as...

DD, being spotted 14k away because 1 enemy saw him at 6k.  I should be an outline on his map.

For the BB, that stand out like a sore thumb.  Which tend to be spotted from MOST of the map as soon as they fire 1 time...Which is not correct in the wiki either...they should only be visible out to the range of their guns...Only..which is (at my level) about 14k.

This game is going to run into the same problem as WOT, which started to get fixed by adding details and hiding spots..  They dont get Much from Smoke screens, and even the islands SUCK for them..and Long firing times..

 

If the dd can be hidden as long as they should be, and not spotted and SHOT as soon as possible..  They will have 1 main battle with the enemy dd, then break the enemy line...and be spotted if he shoots, or gets into detection ranges of the larger ships.

They are trying to design this around the idea of Stratego..

BB kills CC kills dd kills BB....And learning to work in small groups, NOT loners.  This would force the BB to work with the DD to be the close range spotter..  The DD sitting 1 to 5 k from the BB spots the other DD sooner and can race to him while the BB BLASTS THE IDIOT..

20181007183902_1.jpg

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Prove to me that those ships at bottom center are supposed to be Seen...

They are NOT in view range, not detection range, and NOT seen by any of my team.

the second picture, is probably Spotted by that 1 little DD...but MAYBE 1 of the enemy larger ships is in detection range..  I Should be a Shadow,, outline, of Something is there...NOT  a visual target.

20181007223631_1.jpg

20181007221738_1.jpg

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56 minutes ago, ECA said:

Prove to me that those ships at bottom center are supposed to be Seen...

They are NOT in view range, not detection range, and NOT seen by any of my team.

20181007223631_1.jpg

There are many criusers in the Sim's matchmaking spread that are detected from 10KM out. In fact, if you don't kit them out for stealth, I think all of them have 10KM+ detection ranges. And even if he isn't, he may have just fired his guns at the cruiser to the north of you, giving away his position.

The cruiser should be spotted at this point. Nothing is wrong.

1 hour ago, ECA said:

the second picture, is probably Spotted by that 1 little DD...but MAYBE 1 of the enemy larger ships is in detection range..  I Should be a Shadow,, outline, of Something is there...NOT  a visual target.

20181007221738_1.jpg

You are not spotted in that picture. There is no spotted icon on your screen, so you are not seen. Those shells flying at you were either secondarys fired before you got far enough away from the DD to go hidden, or one of the ships taking blind shots at you.

And let me say it one more time: this whole shadow outline thing is not how the game works. It might be how you want it to work, but it is not how it actually works. The sooner you accept that, the sooner we can put this to rest.

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Even in the videos on YT the detection form firing your guns...it said, is the RANGE of the guns max range...only..  and even looking at the picture you can see NONE of my team is in any range, I was the first down there and spotted them all and held my ground...even after 2 crusiers that backed me, ran away..(without TELLING ME)

Not seen, ok...Detection range is 7k...secondary only fires in that range...(or supposed to) and Im WAY over that range..  And it wasnt only secondary..  cause I died..Engines were taken out.

 

And you said nothing about my Sims in the gap...Spotting most of the enemy while being surrounded by islands..I get there as fast as possible..

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55 minutes ago, ECA said:

Even in the videos on YT the detection form firing your guns...it said, is the RANGE of the guns max range...only..  and even looking at the picture you can see NONE of my team is in any range, I was the first down there and spotted them all and held my ground...even after 2 crusiers that backed me, ran away..(without TELLING ME)

Not seen, ok...Detection range is 7k...secondary only fires in that range...(or supposed to) and Im WAY over that range..  And it wasnt only secondary..  cause I died..Engines were taken out.

 

And you said nothing about my Sims in the gap...Spotting most of the enemy while being surrounded by islands..I get there as fast as possible..

There is no cruiser in the Sim's matchmaking spread that has a gun range less than 10KM. I cannot comprehend the thought process that you must have used to say you were out of their gun range. Even in the second picture, 12KM is not outside even the shortest ranged cruiser you could have met in battle.

And as I said, the secondarys must have fired before you went unspotted. Or did you think they just vanish when you go hidden? Plus, secondary guns are more than capable of sinking and incapacitating ships, so we can add that to the pile of things you are clueless about.

In any case, I've had enough of you. I've been very patient in trying to explain away your misconceptions, but it is clear you live in a fantasy. Despite people with three times as much experience telling you you're wrong, despite the wiki staffed by WG picked and approved players contradicting you, despite the GAME ITSELF proving you wrong, you insist you are right and reality itself is wrong.

You are either a troll, or someone with a very poor grasp of English and an ego so undeservingly large you cannot admit you don't understand what you read. In any case, until you realize you are wrong, you will continue to fail at this game. 

Don't bother responding with any dubious claims about being a programmer or misinterpreted game facts, I won't respond. I'm just going to enjoy watching you flounder.

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