Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Ericson38

Why can't I set fires with St Louis ?

8 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
700 posts
10,503 battles

Why do Myoko and Takao have 203 HE shells that have max 3300 damage and the St Louis only gets 2800 ? I can set fires with the IJN at over 2x the rate that I set them with the IJN cruisers, including Takao in T8-10 battles against high tier BBs. Some games in  Frenchy I'll set 1 fire, even though I have DE, which I don't carry with the IJN cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,889
[HINON]
Supertester
19,223 posts
12,756 battles

IJN CA have boosted HE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,803
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
16,112 posts
14,519 battles

Saint-Louis has zero problems setting fires.  You also have 18.3km gun range so you can easily reach out to torment Battleships, while at the same time having Engine Boost to make you a PITA as you pepper a BB at range.

 

Tier VII Myoko has 15.6km range, ARP Takao / Atago 15.8km at Tier VIII.

 

If you're complaining about not setting much fires one game or another, welcome to RNG.  Fires are all about RNG.  I have my Henri IV set up with 26% fire chance and there are times where I only set 1-2 fires.  Conqueror is a reknown fire starter, yet there are times where I barely get any with her.  It's all RNG and if you rely on fires to do your work, you better be prepared to be screwed over here and there.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
700 posts
10,503 battles

Landed 46 HE shells on BBs and set 1 fire a couple of games ago. Typical damage in the low 20Ks. Still, why a lower spec for HE than a Tier 7 ? Louis has torps, but the Takao torps are way way ahead in range, speed, number, and explosive force.

Broadside main battery for Takao 10 203 HE shells at 3300 damage, for 330,000 per broadside. Louis has 12 at 2200, for 264,400 per broadside, about 77% as effective, although at a range of 18.3 km versus 15.8 km. The Takao has better stealth also, so that makes up for most of the lack of deception (9.4 km versus 11.5 km).

The rate of fire of St Louis is 11 seconds for mains, and 16 for Takao, so the IJN here is 68% as fast to reload as the Louis.

Takao has zero problem setting fires, comparatively speaking. I drive them both, and there is a typical 2 to 4 times difference in fire damage between the two ships on offsense.

Hit points are about the same.  

When  you set a fire, that is a huge multiplier in terms of damage, which is  then compounded more depending on the enemy ship's fire crew status. 

Edited by Ericson38

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,889
[HINON]
Supertester
19,223 posts
12,756 battles

FiXBvUd.jpg

Seems to work fine for me.

5 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

Still, why a lower spec for HE than a Tier 7 ?

Because. Japanese. 203. Has. Boosted. HE. Tier doesn't matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
282
[CVA16]
Members
2,293 posts
9,862 battles
On 10/5/2018 at 3:42 PM, Ericson38 said:

Louis has 12 at 2200, for 264,400 per broadside, about 77% as effective, although at a range of 18.3 km versus 15.8 km

12?

Your calculations are off too:

10 X 3,300=33,000

12 X 2,800= 33,600

9 X 2800 = 25,200

SL definitely loses out on a per salvo basis. Especially with the lower fire chance. The alpha strike for the Takeo will be much more devastating. Not sure about relative gun accuracies as to which ship will likely land more shells at a given range. 10 shells should beat 9 but it may depend on the range.

For a DPM comparison: (assuming you can keep shooting for a full minute using the ROFs you gave as I don't have access to them at the moment)

10 X 3.75 rpg X 3,300 = 123,750

9 X 5.45 rpg X 2,800 = 137,340

SL wins even without popping the consumable. It will be shooting more shells so may have a higher chance of fire over time. There is also the broadside factor. Which ship has to show more side to bring all of its guns to bear. Which ship can bring 66% of its guns to bear showing no side at all.

SL does have (slightly) better AP also. The consumable makes it easy to do a quick switch and punish if the opponent briefly shows too much side even without expert loader.

Just wondering why are you comparing the St Louis to Takeo? (T9 vs T8).

Ibuki DPM:

10 X 4.0 X 3300 = 132,000

Still less than SL.

Edited by Sabot_100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
700 posts
10,503 battles

Thanks for catching my errors on StL. Has 9 rifles at 2800 damage per round for 25,200 per full salvo. Rate per gun is 1/11 (sec) for 0.0909 x 60 = 5.45, for a DPM rate of 137,340 as you calculated, which is about 10% better than Takao.

StL dispersion is 148 Meters (at max range ?) and Takao is 132 M, so Takao is about 12% better there.

That could put these two back on equal effectiveness for DPM from HE.

StL turret turn time is 23 seconds versus 26 seconds for Takao, so there is a situational advantage for StL.

The 3300 versus 2800 HE damage difference is enough to give the Takao a non-linear advantage, even though the DPM favors StL. Its like brining a Cleveland into a battle with Takao, and the Cleveland doesn't have IFHE. The DPM won't matter as much as getting a fire to start at all.

I'm comparing to Takao since I have had that ship for a couple of years and used it as a basis for getting into the StL. Can't operate them the same though, even though both have torps and will see similar foes.  StL gets taken either out of the battle in the 1st 3 minutes, or 50% out, or something between these two, about 33% of the time. I think it is a combination of detection range coupled with overall size in profile, as Takao rarely has this issue (I can't recall it).  

My average damage on StL is 29K (57K server average), while Takao is 37K (39K server average). In my Russian T9 Donkey it is 44K (server average is 52K).

Some talk about the rudder and engine being taken out, but those cases don't happen enough for me to comment on. Just getting taken out is the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
282
[CVA16]
Members
2,293 posts
9,862 battles
37 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

StL dispersion is 148 Meters (at max range ?) and Takao is 132 M, so Takao is about 12% better there

This is one of those apples-and-oranges stats WG has. It is measured at max range so SL and Takao MAY have exactly the same dispersion at Takao's max range. If the dispersion is strictly linear, I suppose you could figure out what it is at the shorter range. I tend to think it is not strictly linear as I have seen some pretty wild shells on close range targets. Haven't been able to get the names of that  drunk gun crew so I can court-martial them or at least put them back on the secondaries where they belong.

My calculation (which is probably wrong) say SL should have a 127m dispersion at 15.8K. Then there is factoring in Sigma...

Yeah, the STL has torps with better arcs but only 3 per side and the same ones all the lower tier French CA/CLs have. It can surprise ships because they forget it has torps. Everybody remembers the IJN ships have torps.

SL cannot play the concealment ambush game. If you have problems with that, just wait til you get the Henri where you are often the first ship the reds see if you aren't hiding in the back with the BBs. Some builds just abandon concealment altogether for rudder shift.

Edited by Sabot_100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×