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Ducky_shot

Why do people want to throw USS Maryland under the bus

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I understand the uniqueness of the West Virginia's 44 refit. But what I don't understand is that people care nothing for the USS Maryland and want to toss it under the bus with the 41 model. 

Why do people not want the Maryland in one of its 3 post 41 fittings. It could be argued that it is more historic than the West Virginia in that it was the first battleship to be repaired and put into service after Pearl Harbour. 

Does the Maryland not matter? Why do people care so much about the West Virginia that they will throw an equally deserving ship under the bus to further their agenda? 

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Detail the refits and the answer might tumble out.

 

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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

Detail the refits and the answer might tumble out.

 

I understand why the west Virginia is unique, but it doesn't explain why people think that Maryland should be left to rot in the 41 fitting.... 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

I understand why the west Virginia is unique, but it doesn't explain why people think that Maryland should be left to rot in the 41 fitting.... 

 

Maybe they're just not big fans of Old Bay seasoning?

But seriously....what makes Maryland more unique than a fully upgraded Colorado?

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Maryland's biggest flaw is that she's not West Virginia. There's nothing wrong with Maryland per say, but of the four Colorado's laid down and three that have served, Maryland is the unfortunate one which isn't in the game yet and isn't WV.

And Washington? WG would be wise to keep that name for a possible future North Carolina premie.

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2 minutes ago, LubzinNJ said:

Maybe they're just not big fans of Old Bay seasoning?

But seriously....what makes Maryland more unique than a fully upgraded Colorado?

All 3 ships ended up being quite different than each other. Colorado was in refit during pearl harbor and was rushed back to service, Maryland was repaired and more modern than the Colorado and West Virginia was substantially further upgraded.

 

1 minute ago, Lert said:

Maryland's biggest flaw is that she's not West Virginia. There's nothing wrong with Maryland per say, but of the four Colorado's laid down and three that have served, Maryland is the unfortunate one which isn't in the game yet and isn't WV.

And Washington? WG would be wise to keep that name for a possible future North Carolina premie.

But the argument could be made that the west Virginia is only historic because of the extensive upgrade. Maryland was repaired, the first ship back into service after pearl harbor and saw more action than West Virginia.... So it could be argued that Maryland has more historic appeal and the west Virginia has more technical appeal. 

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Maryland really isn't much different than rado in 1945...Colorado has single 5 inch mounts right? Maryland has dual mounts. 

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5 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

But the argument could be made that the west Virginia is only historic because of the extensive upgrade. Maryland was repaired, the first ship back into service after pearl harbor and saw more action than West Virginia.... So it could be argued that Maryland has more historic appeal and the west Virginia has more technical appeal. 

That argument could be made, and my counter argument is that West Virginia has the 'Phoenix rising out of the ashes' appeal and symbolizes more than any other ship the rebirth of the US navy after the Pearl Harbor attack, by way of being sunk, raised, extensively rebuilt and then pushed into service. One might argue that California has the same symbolism and received the same extensive rebuild, but the West Virginia's rebuilt form is just more famous than California's.

Plus, while all three serving Colorado ended up very different in their eventual refit, weren't Maryland and Colorado closer to each other in their final refits than WV was to either of them?

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My guess would be the the effort put forth by her crew to save the dying ship.  The Captain was dying, the highest ranking officers jumped ship, and when they were patching the holes in the ship to bring it up they found the bodies of 66 crew members.  Maryland did not sustain that level of destruction during the attack on Pearl, which is why it reentered service first.  I'm not taking away from Maryland and her service during WWII.  This is only my speculation.

I would also like to add the heroics of Dorie Miller, who would be awarded the Navy Cross.

Edited by Amenhir

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31 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

Maryland really isn't much different than rado in 1945...Colorado has single 5 inch mounts right? Maryland has dual mounts. 

Well that is kind of the standard difference for all of the Pearl Harbor survivor refits so ... 

As for the OP's main questions, It's kind of simple.  WG is going to put into service a Colorado in it's late 1941 condition as a T6 Premium.  Colorado is already in use which leaves Maryland and West Virginia.  Right now, WG is planning on using WV-41 and then later introducing WV-45 which would essentially exclude Maryland from the WG universe in any shape or form. 

Some people are suggesting that instead of using WV-41 they substitute Maryland in that slot which would bring her into the game as one of the most powerful battleships at T6 and then introducing WV in her OFTEN requested 1945 form.  This avoids an uncomfortably confusing naming scheme (as in which WV am I facing at a glance) into a clearer form and it allows WG to bring in another historic ship into the game which might otherwise be excluded. 

And why WV in her 1945 form, well there's all sorts of possible reasons but the big one is that all sorts of people are requesting her and you would be the first I've heard from requesting the Maryland.  As such, WG pretty reasonably believes they will make more money off of WV than they will Maryland.  

If it comes down to a choice between Maryland and WV and which gets the 41 and 45 refits, WV will win because WG will sell better and higher tier ships cost more money to purchase.  What the danger here is for Maryland fans is that WV will take up both slots and exclude Maryland altogether.

If I were a Maryland fan, I'd be all over introducing her in her '41 configuration like a fly on brown stuffs because the alternative is the likely exclusion of the ship from the game. 

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel
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24 minutes ago, Lert said:

That argument could be made, and my counter argument is that West Virginia has the 'Phoenix rising out of the ashes' appeal and symbolizes more than any other ship the rebirth of the US navy after the Pearl Harbor attack, by way of being sunk, raised, extensively rebuilt and then pushed into service. One might argue that California has the same symbolism and received the same extensive rebuild, but the West Virginia's rebuilt form is just more famous than California's.

Plus, while all three serving Colorado ended up very different in their eventual refit, weren't Maryland and Colorado closer to each other in their final refits than WV was to either of them?

I'm impressed that people who understand real debate still exist on the forums. 

Going off of Arizona having the most appeal and nostalgia to the general populace and it never got pulled out of the harbor, then yes, maryland should have less appeal than the extensively rebuilt west Virginia. 

However I would submit that battleships that saw action while the west Virginia was being refit (the aforementioned Washington and also the South Dakota) are arguably more famous and have more historic appeal, due to their service record. So it could be said the extra service record would put the historic nostalgic value of Maryland on par with the west Virginia. Also the Phoenix started rising with the Maryland and probably the "rising of the Phoenix" ended with the west Virginia. 

Yes, the WV was the most different of the 3. If it were me, I'd rather see neither of them in 1941 spec, though. 

It's stupid that the whole crux of the matter is that none of them are barely fast enough for t7, never mind t8. If they were a few knots faster, the debate would be over and WV 44 would go to tier 8 leaving open a t7 Maryland in 42 refit or later. It's stupid that the speed makes t6 the best option for a premium due to the speed. 

Edited by Ducky_shot
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My 2 cents would be it's better to have 1 crappy Maryland than 2 West Virginia's 

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6 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

However I would submit that battleships that saw action while the west Virginia was being refit (the aforementioned Washington and also the South Dakota) are arguably more famous and have more historic appeal, due to their service record.

'Has more battle stars' has never been an argument for WG for inclusion in the game though, and the 'phoenix rising' aspect appeals to emotion, which does open wallets. Just look at how many Arizonas WG has sold / you see driving around.

In the end though both arguments have merit.

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1 minute ago, _1204_ said:

My 2 cents would be it's better to have 1 crappy Maryland than 2 West Virginia's 

We already got the Benson, Nurnberg and Boise twice. The name being the same is literally the only sticky point people have with the idea. 

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

'Has more battle stars' has never been an argument for WG for inclusion in the game though

Not at all, my question was more to the user base than it was to WG, far be it from me to try and figure out why they do what they do.... Lol

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Keep in mind that WG also wants to do a Colorado at Tier VI, just like they did a Nagato at Tier VI.  This isn't "throwing <ship x> under the bus", it is simply putting a ship in where they want one.

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34 minutes ago, Lert said:

And Washington? WG would be wise to keep that name for a possible future North Carolina premie.

A North Carolina with radar...be the only thing that makes sense. If they go '42 it'll probably be 8.75 km radar. Whether it's useful or not I have no idea. Hydro would be far more useful defensively.

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4 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Not at all, my question was more to the user base than it was to WG, far be it from me to try and figure out why they do what they do.... Lol

Personally, appeals to emotion work best on my, and that's why I'd prefer WV44 in the game in her final form over Maryland.

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I honestly wish they would straight up scrap WV-41. WG screwed up and wasted dev time making that model, but that's their fault for not doing their research.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Personally, appeals to emotion work best on my, and that's why I'd prefer WV44 in the game in her final form over Maryland.

You are a sad person to give in to emotions. 

 

 

I want south Dakota for "personal nostalgic" reasons.... :) 

Totally different than you.... Totally... 

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I think we're forgetting why West Virginia's rebuilding was so damn extensive. Of all the battleships at Pearl that were sunk and then raised, WeeVee received by far the most damage, to the point that her her upper hull was so badly compromised by successive torpedo hits, that her forward weather deck on the port side literally caved in on itself. Nevada, California and Tennessee were all badly damaged, as well as Pennsylvania (though she was in dry dock at the time), but West Virginia was quite literally sunk and then resurrected. If Oaklahoma hadn't capsized at her moorings, she would've probably been put back in service as well, possibly with a similar rebuild, and in fact the Navy did indeed refloat her as well—they just realized that the effort required to return her to duty was not worth the cost.

So yeah, West Virginia was very much a phoenix from the ashes, but to the point that the term "refit" has long ceased to be adequate—we're talking a near-complete tearing down and reconstruction from below the waterline up.

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2 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

You are a sad person to give in to emotions. 

 

 

I want south Dakota for "personal nostalgic" reasons.... :) 

Totally different than you.... Totally... 

Um...what?

Where did Lert say that he was letting his emotions rule him? Hell, most of the people who play this game do it for some sort of emotive reasons, usually having to do with history and how they relate to it. It's when emotions override rational thought that things can start to go south, and so far I haven't seen much of that from the WeeVee advocates (though that's not saying much). So it seems a little unfair, or at the very least uncharitable, to go that far.

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5 minutes ago, AyanoMidori said:

I honestly wish they would straight up scrap WV-41. WG screwed up and wasted dev time making that model, but that's their fault for not doing their research.

They didn't waste any time. They removed A hull Colorado from the game a while back and they are wanting to do something with the model that already exists. 

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1 minute ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

Um...what?

Where did Lert say that he was letting his emotions rule him? Hell, most of the people who play this game do it for some sort of emotive reasons, usually having to do with history and how they relate to it. It's when emotions override rational thought that things can start to go south, and so far I haven't seen much of that from the WeeVee advocates (though that's not saying much). So it seems a little unfair, or at the very least uncharitable, to go that far.

It's called sarcasm dude, I lumped myself right in there with him

Take a chill pill.... 

Edited by Ducky_shot

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Just now, Goodwood_Alpha said:

WeeVee received by far the most damage, to the point that her her upper hull was so badly compromised by successive torpedo hits, that her forward weather deck on the port side literally caved in on itself

 

I have had the same yard-brush for 30 years, its had 4 new brush stales and 3 new brush-heads.

 

but is it still the same yard-brush given the only original part is the screw that holds the stale to the head?

 

you run into the same problem with extensively rebuilt classic cars and aircraft, that very little of it is original.

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